96 E350, died while driving
 

Hi everyone, this is my first post. I have a Ford 1996 E350 van front boxtruck with the 7.3 PSD. While driving in Granby CT last weekend to move an elderly couple the truck died on me, like it ran out of fuel all of a sudden. I had it towed to a repair facility, however they don't really work on Diesels, which i didnt know being the weekend, they were closed. They did hook it up to their scanner and got a code for no high fuel pressure. Thats the extent they would diagnose for me. At that point I wanted to get it home to further look into it and research a good repair facility. That's when i found this forum as recommended to me by my Uncle MrF250. Anyways, I replaced the cps sensor and was told by the repair shop that was good because they did get an rpm reading (I replaced this before having it towed as this was seen as the easiest and cheapest thing to do while in a parking lot) (I have no tachometer on this truck). Today I pulled the fuel filter out and drained the bowl. After cycling the key a few time to the on position there is no fuel in the bowl. Is it safe to assume the fuel pump is bad and time for a new one ? Any thoughts or links to removing the turbo and changing the pump would be appreciated.

:-drink

Welcome to the forum! There is no electric pump on these motors. The pump is on top of the motor and run by the cam. What I would suggest is filling the bowl back up if you can, I know it must suck being in a van there pry isn't a lot of room, but there a shrader valve on the side of the fuel bowl where you can use a stick type tire gauge to check pressure. I can't recall what the minimum pressure is. I'm sure the others will chime in with suggestions as well.

By the way where did you get the CPS? Parts store ones can be bad out of the box, and the only suggested ones are Ford or international. Also are you getting a wait to start light? And if you can post exact codes that may help too

Once again welcome.

I did get the cps at a parts store but the repair place did say they were getting an rpm reading, which I assume means the sensor was working. I am getting a wait to start light on dash before i turn the key fully. What information can be gained by refilling and psi testing the bowl ? What side of the vehicle and front or back is the schrader valve ? I cant seem to find it for the life of me. I've read that 40-60 psi is the range i'm looking for correct, when i do find the valve, when should i test the psi, on ignition correct ? In case its the pump, i have ordered the delphi oe replacement unit, any suggestions on the quality of this pump ? Also it appears the turbo has to come off for replacement of the pump, any guides for turbo removal ?

The bowl won't fill without cranking the motor over. Also, it won't set a code for fuel pressure as its all mechanical. I'm not sure I'd trust him saying the tach was reading also. If it were mine I'd try and pull codes first if I could and try a ford or ih sensor like Thomas mentioned.

Welcome to :-X25

Normal fuel pressure range is 40-80 PSI at idle. If you use the stick-type pressure gauge, you'll most likely have fuel sprayed into the van interior. Be careful and use lots of rags to help control the fuel spray.

The schrader valve looks exactly like the valve stem on your wheels. That's why some folks use the stick-type pressure gauge. Because the fuel pump is mechanical, the pressure reading will jump around a lot.

To get an idea of what your fuel pressure is, add the lowest reading to the highest reading and divide by two. That should give you a good average. If that average reading is between 40 - 80 PSI, fuel pressure is good. This doesn't test the bowl pressure. This tests fuel pressure being delivered to the injectors. Fuel is filtered before it reaches the injectors.

Cranking the engine to fill the fuel filter bowl will take a LONG time, as far as cranking goes, and can drain your batteries. Fill the filter bowl with fuel, but not so much that the fuel will spill out when you reinstall the fuel filter. You need fuel in that bowl so the engine will run.

Have the codes read and post what codes, if any, were found. We can help more after the above items have been accomplished.

Edit:
If you're unsure of the fuel filter condition, now would be a good time to replace it if funds are available.

If the engine runs and dies again, after filling the fuel bowl, check the fuel bowl to see if any fuel is still in there. We'll want to know that, too.

Hello all, after a couple days off and a quick trip to Maine I'm back at trying to diagnose why the truck isn't starting. I've gotten a code scanner and it isn't finding any fault codes. I've taken out the fuel filter, which looked rather clean and inspected the fuel bowl, everything looks good there. The obd2 scanner does pick up the rpm when I try to crank over the motor so I'm assuming that means the cps sensor is working correctly. The rpm's only hit 150 when the engine is cranking, is this normal? At this point I have the fuel bowl empty and have purchased a new fuel filter, should I fill fuel bowl with fresh fuel and reinstall new filter and try to check for fuel psi? If I'm not getting fuel psi is it safe to assume the mechanical fuel pump is shot and I should install a new one? Any help with this topic is greatly appreciated!

Update: I just drained the fuel bowl and then cranked the motor over for about a minute. After that I inspected the fuel bowl again and it was 2/3rds full, does this mean there's a possibility that the intake side of the pump is working and sending part is possibly broken or does the pump just fail completely all at once? If there is fuel available in the bowl then what is another possibility for the truck not starting?

Doubtful, I'll bet the pump is fine. Are you getting any smoke out the tail pipe?

welcome to fte

No smoke of any color coming out of the tailpipe...

I'm still wondering about the CPS. I had one a couple of months ago that did somthing similar, but didn't exhibit the usual signs of a CPS. Turned out that was the problem. The only difference is there was smoke. I know it's not much to go on. But a good way to rule it out.

And also not every scanner will communicate with thease trucks. About the only thing they share is the obd2 plug. Other than that how they "talk" is not obd 2 friendly. If you could find auto ingenuity (plugs into a laptop) or a scanner you know will talk to thease trucks it's hard to get anything out of them.

I ordered a replacement cps from the local ford dealership and will pick it up and try that tomorrow. Does anyone know any scanner in particular that is good for communicating with the ECU on these motors?

A Snapon MT2500 or AutoEnginuity will do the trick. Both are good scanners with a good reputation. The Snapon unit will have to have "bricks" for diesel including your year, and the AE will have to have the Ford bundle. Both cost about the same, just depends on your taste and whether you have a laptop handy for the AE. The Snapon is it's own unit and doesn't require a computer.

I'm guessing the codes the tech pulled were that there was no high pressure OIL and not fuel. Not knowing much about diesels, it probably didn't make sense to him so he said fuel. I think you need to look at the High pressure oil system. Personally, I would start by unplugging the ICP and giving it a crank to see what happens. I would also check the tin nut on the back of the IPR to see to it that it hasn't worked its way loose and fallen off.

Here is a little flow chart for troubleshooting your issue. It has some links in it that may prove helpful as well.

Crank-No-Start Flowchart

Welcome to the site. Stick around here, be willing to try things one at a time, and we should be able to get you running again.

What are the condition of your batteries? It needs to crank over fast enough to get the IDM to fire the injectors, then you will see smoke.

When you turn the key to the run position, do you get a wait to start light? If not, check the under hood fuse panel. Fuse #22 is a blue 30 amp fuse that powers the fuel heater and PCM. If it is blown, unhook the fuel heater and replace the fuse.

The OP did say he is getting a WTS in post # 2.

Batteries are on the older side, so going now to get them tested and if necessary get replacements. As MadMatador noted, yes im getting a wait to start light on the dash.

I just returned from the Ford dealer and purchased and installed an oem cps. I also put in an oem brand new fuel filter and made sure the bowl was nearly full. Based on the not start flow chart it states the engine needs 200 rpm to start so i hope changing the batteries will do so because with the current batteries its only hitting 120-150 rpm on crank.

I also tried unplugging the icp and that did not make any difference, still no start, still no smoke.

A few days ago i did check the hpop oil level and it seemed low so I added some, will the hpop being too low on oil make a difference ?

Thanks to all for your time !!!

Both batteries tested fine with more than adequate CCA available so I'm going to rule the batteries out at this point.

It was starting fine previously to dying while I was driving. Seeing as it was starting fine I'm thinking that the batteries are fine.

I did purchase a fuel psi pressure so I will test the psi coming out of the bowl on crank and report those findings next.

Have you checked the tin nut on the IPR? Keep working through that flowchart and let us know where you end up.

Cranking you may only see about 20 PSI of fuel pressure, which should be more than sufficient to get it to start.

Hello again, reinstalled batteries and thoroughly cleaned terminal posts, getting a much better connection now, I think I was only getting electricity from one battery bc the double terminal adapter was so corroded, all set now though so I'm sure I have good battery power.

I just performed a fuel pressure test with an actual fuel pressure gauge that I just purchased, $45 (ouch) but it was worth it to know. Tried the test 2 different times so I'm pretty sure it's not giving me anything.

Now that it appears there's is no fuel pressure what does everyone think about going ahead and replacing the fuel pump?

I already have an oem replacement and all new hoses so it should be too bad, I think I can get it out without removing the turbo...

Any thoughts?

It can get a little low with extended cranking. A little low will not make a difference, empty will.

If you're sure the fuel pressure gauge is working and you're still not getting any pressure, then it sounds to me like a pump would be a logical next step. One last thing that might be worth a shot though would be to add 5 gallons of fuel to the tank. It's possible that the "shower head" (strainer) fell off the end of the pickup tube inside the fuel tank and you're just sucking air. I would recommend switching tanks, but I don't think you have dual tanks on an E series van do you? Throwing an extra $20 in fuel into it is a cheap test anyway.

If you do end up changing the pump, you will need either a 1 1/4" socket or wrench to get the banjo bolt out of the back of the pump. The pump can be removed with the turbo in place, or at least it can be on a pickup. I can't say for sure what it's like on a van.

Hi DIY, upon cranking the engine over the fuel bowl does fill up so does that rule out the need to try putting more fuel in the tank as a test? It's nearly full anyways, and yes there is only 1 tank on the truck.

Any suggestions on how I can test the fuel pressure gauge to know if it's definitely working or not? Is there a method for testing the Schrader valve another way to see if fuel is available there?

In terms of the banjo bolt on the pump, does that have to be removed before removal of the pump from the block?

Also do you know anything about the functionality of the pump itself? It appears there is an intake from the fuel tank, then another line to the middle of the fuel bowl, and then a third line going to the bottom of the fuel bowl, does anyone know what the functions of the 3 different lines are?

Thanks so much for your time!

Most of your questions revolev around the fact that the fuel pump you are seeing there on the engine is a two stage pump. There are actually 4 inlet/outlets on the pump if you count the banjo bolt as one. One on the bottom, two in the middle facing forward, and the banjo bolt out the back. The way the pump works is that there is a smalle diaphram pump in the pump that pulls the fuel from the tank, then pumps it through the filter (inlet and outlet 1, if you will) at around 5-7 PSI (low pressure side of the pump) and then the fuel returns from the filter and goes into the higher pressure plunger portion of the pump, where it is pressurized to about 70 PSI and pumped into the fuel galleries in the heads (at the higher pressure that the pump can create). The fuel pressure is regulated by the FPR which actually is on the return side of the heads and bleeds excess fuel back into the system to maintain the correct pressure.

Here is a link to a picture if that makes it any easier to understand. Sorry the site won't let me attach the picture directly for some dumb reason.

So to answer your more direct questions, yes the banjo bolt has to come out before you pull the pump from the block. In fact, the best way to remove it to avoid the little tappet falling out of the pump and into the engine is to remove everything from the pump and then turn the engine over by hand until the pump pushes up off the block. Then you can pull it up and out.

And also, yes, there is a chance that the low pressure part of the pump is working and filling the fuel filter housing, but the piston side of the pump is bad and can't build pressure thorough the heads.

That's a long, answer for a small question...:-X04

Excellent explanation Nate. That helps increase my knowledge-base as well. I'll be replacing my fuel pump on Wednesday, with the help of a friend. Reps sent.

Here's my attempt at attaching your picture:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...d=175154&.jpg=

Hi everyone, thanks for all the responses and the insight into my situation. I got introduced to a friend of a friend who works on psd's. He came over tonight when his scanner and was able to pull some codes.

He got a few different codes but the ones that he said were noteworthy were

1293
1294
& 1298

In his opinion all signs point to a bad IDM. We removed the IDM and while it was damp in the outside and very dirty there didn't appear to be any water in the casing that we could hear when shaking it.

Does anyone have a method of testing or ohming out the IDM to ensure that it's faulty before spending $400plus on a new one?

If that's what it is I'm happy to pay that but if just like to have some opinions beforehand.

Thanks!

Can you borrow one and try it on your truck? Or, better yet, try yours on another truck?
I can tell you for sure, don't pay $400, look on ebay or something.

Awesome explanation. I'm sure this helps a lot of us novice diesel guys.

To the op, if your IDM is bad, there is a place in Florida, forget the name at the moment. They are a big rebuild place. I paid in the 150? Range 2-3 years ago.

After a long wait I ordered a new idm and that was the issue. I got one for $125 refurbished on eBay. After 20 seconds of cranking she fired right up. Things were fine for a few weeks, however while on a short trip to boston to help a friend move she died on me again. It was a cold day here in CT about -5. Had it towed to a garage and they replaced the fuel filter and added some diesel 911. We were able to get her to start but ran very rough and would not move when put in drive. Eventually after 5 minutes the motor stopped running altogether and we weren't able to get it started again. Ended up renting a uhaul to finish the day off and had my truck towed back to my house. Now I'm trying to diagnose the issue and here's what I know.
1. No check engine light
2. "Wait to start light" does come on and go off when key is turned on.
3. I am getting an rpm count on my scanner when motor is cranked although it is on the lower side of 200-300 rpms.
4. Batteries were recently tested and are fine.
5. Starter motor was replaced about 2 months ago and cranks strong.
6. Fuel is fresh and tank is full.
7. Not getting any white smoke out of the tailpipe on crank.

These are my observations thus far. My next step will be to pull off fuel filter cap and make sure bowl is filling up on cranking.

I bought a fuel pressure test gauge in the past to try and test fuel pressure but never had any luck getting a reading, any recommendations for a good gauge meant for diesel testing?

Is there a chance my mechanical fuel pump died or where should I start my diagnosis ?

Thanks in advance for any advise.

Andy

Out of the frying pan and into the fire, huh?

I'd start with looking at the fuel pressure. If that checks out, then I'd go to HPO. It could be the ICP or the IRP. I would still start with the fuel pressure though. If you can get 20 PSI while you're cranking, the pump is probably be fine.