Electronic ignition conversion possible???
 

1st time poster. :-wink

I work for Fish & Wildlife and we have a 1973 Ford 1ton flatbed, 390 V8 with a single set of points, single vacuum advance distributor. The distributor # is:
D3TF 12127 HA.

The flatbed died about 2 weeks ago, so I started diagnostics when I returned from vacation. Long story short - no spark. The distributor breaker plate is shot, which will run about $25 to replace. I have already to install new distributor cap, rotor, points, condensor, plugs and wires.

Can this distributor be convereted to electronic ignition with a kit, ie Hot Spark Electronic Conversion Kit?
Electronic Ignition Conversion Kits for 8-Cylinder V8 Ford, FoMoCo, Motorcraft, Autolite Distributors

Is there another electronic conversion kit that would be better recommended and would I require anything else to get this set up running, such as a hotter coil???

Thanks for your expertise!!!

This is a great product
You can read on there coil recommendations

Installing PerTronix 1281 Ignitor into standard Ford Motorcraft Distributor

I've been running the Pertronix in my 428 for app. 10 years now and haven't had to touch it. Piece of cake to install and once the timing is set your done.

X 2 on the Pertronix. Run it with their matching coil and forget those frequent tuneups. Also recommend not running the cheapo aluminum terminal distributor caps, get the HD brass terminal cap. Sounds also like you need to bite the bullet and get a fresh reman distributor in there too. And I'm not someone who is ignorant as to how to set points. I dealt with them for years. Electronic modules are the way to go.

IMHO, but, what is more reliable than points......certainly not the more popular & common “e-box replacement kits”. Yes you can hear people state "It runs so much smoother/better than when it had points"........in each case that an individual said that in my presence, they had very little knowledge about points and the ones they were running were- old & tired or inexpensive aftermarket replacement units or the individual (including professional mechanic) was unfamiliar with not just setting the gap to OEM specs, but setting the dwell & initial timing to what the engine likes.

But let’s look at the OEM ignition system from the early 60’s….
Original Coil Voltage: 20,000; by the end of the 60’s 40,000 volt high performance coils were common…..by the 70’s 50,000 & 60,000 volt coils were easily available & is what we have today. Did we really gain all sorts of HP/TQ with all this extra voltage…….no, what we were able to gain was stronger support (if you will excuse my terms here) for higher RPM’s- specifically in the 6,000+ range…..enough to power NASCAR engines in the 8,000 rpm range at 200+ mph!

Points were used in NASCAR up through the late 1970's, running speeds of 200mph+.........Cale Yarborough did lose a race one time because the ignition points broke. In a street application, if you look at the data very closely that is provided by these more common e-box companies, in street applications (where max power-band RPM is around 6000), when the standard dyno deviation is removed (5% standard per every dyno mfg) there is less than 1% improvement in performance. Further testing by independent aftermarket DIS (direct ignition system) manufacturers verify this through their own testing- there is little gain over an ignition points system until you reach 4000 rpm…then you begin to see a slight sustainment of ignition delivery above what points can deliver but it doesn’t even begin to compare to what a “modern”, real e-based system can & does deliver in a real world street (and race) environment.
I am not promoting this product but their analysis is very demonstrative of actual performance results. link: http://www.compu-tronix.com/MightyMo...risonGraph.pdf
The other item is, in a street vehicle, if you wait to see improvement until 4000+ rpm, the race is over.
Here is a link to a back to back ¼ runs- comparison of points vs a couple of e-box conversions……..no discernible difference PerTronix Track Test

These e-box “conversion kits” have literally the same design limitations as the “conventional points”- because they are essentially using the same delivery system (rotor, cap, wires, etc.) and they are subject to the same inherent design impactors of which there are numerous….including ozone that is produced within the cap…..none of this has by miracle “disappeared” and in fact when compared in true recorded data-frame analysis, the benefit will be gone by 5800 rpm and the loss, although slightly less, parallels that of points. In racing conditions that could very well make a difference, but in a street application, you could literally change brand of fuel and see that level of improvement or degradation. Additionally, there are companies such as ProComp whose “High-Tech Multiple Discharge Ignition Systems” are nothing more than re-boxed low tech conversion parts purchased in bulk from other companies- mostly Chinese-based. Check out this pic procomp ignition box?? of a “new” ProComp e-ignition system- it’s a glued together GM part stuffed into a pretty aluminum box. Considering they were sued in 2006 by MSD (and prohibited as part of a settlement from using/distributing any of their parts), I’m not surprised by anything I see with their crap….but this includes much of the e-box aftermarket industry- a lot of PR documents which physics does not play any part!

Very good quality ignition points/condensors are available and when set properly, are very reliable and provide excellent performance. There have been no less than 5 people who I personally knew were going to get e-boxes, then I had them get a good set of points/condenser, a high voltage (40k+) coil, and installed them showing them specifically how to do it......the engines ran smooth and strong. One person did end up buying an e-box, why, because he said he just got tired of not being "cool", after spending $500 for a distributor, etc (he went “Popular” high end), a year later (when he asked me to help him fix something) he admitted, it was a waste of $...it didn't run any better than after we put the points in.

While many state the positives of e-boxes (and there are certainly many positive attributes), there are conditions which reduce an e-boxes effectiveness & reliability....to start with the circuitry and handling (container vessel shipping) of it from China (which is where 90% of the more common/popular e-box company's products originate). Any aspect including temperature control, static safeguards, moisture can & will cause both detectable and undetectable damage which may not show up until after you have subjected the installed component to real world vibrations, heat, cold, moisture & grease/oil. Yes, all of these damage e-components, but the systems (based upon a variety of factors) are suppose to be prepared to endure these exposures but that is based upon many, many assumptions. Including proper handling & q/a.......given all of the 3rd party involvement in the final product, it is unrealistic (IMHO) to believe that e-boxes have an increased reliability as compared to their mechanical-based counterpart. And in terms of “Dwell Control” I won’t even go into that in detail but I will say, what the “kits” provide is a joke…..you can actually get more control over the dwell by having an understanding of how to set timing versus dwell setting with points than the most popular e-box conversion kits can provide (which can be verified on any test bed)…..which makes for a very smooth running engine- this is not just IMHO, but well known among the "higher quality" aftermarket engineers whose systems reflect this ability to "tune"!
If you need to say I got rid of my points…ok, that’s fine, but if you are really serious about actually upgrading the ignition system then do so……although it has been scrapped by the OEM’s in favor of more advanced, effective systems, there are aftermarket DIS units (yes the same as Ford used in the 90’s & developed by Porsche in the 80’s) whose cost is within reach of most buyers and will actually perform as stated.


Ok, I'll get off my box now (:

I ran points in my Comet for a few years, upgraded to Pertronix, wasn't a big deal. It did idle a *tad* smoother, might have had better top end, but I rarely saw the other side of 4000rpm.

My 390, however, the breaker plate pulled the points crooked and it would lose spark when the vacuum advance worked. I finally got it running with the vacuum advance, less than ideal gap, but the damn thing ran.

After a few weeks it wouldn't start, put me down in town. I had to get a bud to jump the truck off. Spinning over long enough would pull the breaker plate and it would crank. Once it started it ran great, just acted like the timing was too high when cranking.

Got home, figured it out, said screw it, dropped a Pertronix in it Monday and she's running great, even with the breaker plate pulling the pickup away from the distributor shaft.

Mine is a low mileage remanufactured distributor. The breaker plate problem could just be a fluke, but it works now so I don't care either way.

A couple of things to think about and a few choices:

1. Keeping it stock. If the distributor is shot, you probably just have to buy a new or rebuilt one. Rockauto lists them and they are fairly cheap. The advantage is that your truck is stock and all parts can be ordered for it from your local auto parts store. The disadvantage is that you are using a system that deteriorates every time you use it and will need to have parts replaced within a few thousand miles. Another disadvantage to using points is that to PROPERLY set ignition points, you need a dwell meter. Sorry folks, a feeler gauge will get the engine running, but an accurate dwell meter is needed to accurately set ignition points. Plus, every time you install a set of points your timing changes (remember that ignition timing changes with your dwell adjustments), so to properly install a set of points, you need a timing light to check the timing after your points are properly set. And don't forget the little dab of grease on the distributor cam either.

2. The replacement electronic conversion kits. I have used some Pertronix conversion kits and I've had good luck with them. My brother has one on his F600 grain truck with a 390 that has been working great for 10+ years and the best thing about them is that they are maintenance free. (For the most part)
The good thing is that all settings are constant and your dwell does not change over time. The bad thing is that if the thing ever goes bad, you are dead in the water. You can't take out a little file to file on it because there is nothing to file. Chances are, the local parts store won't have a replacement on hand, or at least not one for your application.

3. Factory stock electronic ignition. In '75 & '76, Ford used the Duraspark ignition system on their pickups with the 390. You could retrofit a system like this to your truck. RockAuto also lists these distributors and parts. Once again, one advantage is that the settings were constant and there were no rubbing blocks to change the dwell or the timing. Another advantage is that you are using factory parts, although not factory for the 1973 YEAR. The disadvantage to the system is that you are not using factory parts for the 1973 year. (Just in case some mechanic down the road can't figure that out)

Really, I think you are the one needs to make this decision because you are the one who will have to live with it and the people writing the check to fix your truck may not understand why it is costing X amount of dollars to fix a truck by putting on an electronic conversion.

If the Pertronix goes bad, mine has been trouble free for 5 years, then the points can be reinstalled.

In that application I would replace both the distributor itself with a stock reman unit, and the point/condenser system with any of the Pertronix Ignitor units.

Replace stock coil with a high output coil like Flamethrower. They work best by feeding a full 12.x volts to the ignition. Then open up the spark plug gap to about .045 or so. A drop in module will compensate for a worn out distributor somewhat, but Trust Me - it's time.

Bypass the resistor wire altogether and run a heavy gauge wire from ignition switch to high output coil.

The utility of using a stock distributor is that if, in the unlikely event the Pertronix were to fail, one can re-install the points and condenser and get back on the trail. They've sold millions of these things, they do fail once in a while but I bet it's due to poor grounding and/or poor connections. My 64 runs great, and with a stock generator charging system, for 10 years and 20k rough and tough miles all over the country.

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I have nothing against the Pertronix, I run them in my 292 Ranchero and my 302 Mustang. I've never had a problem but do carry a set of points and condenser as back up. They are great for people who can't deal with points or don't have dwell meters to set them correctly.
I also run points in both of my trucks since the 60-70's and have never had a problem. I keep the points in the trucks so that one day when we get hit with a BIG solar flare and all the electronics blow I'll still be driving :-X04:-X04

lol
I was thinking the same, solar flare, emp, it'll fry my Pertronix and my cd player.

Replace it with points and go.

how will a solar flare or EMP fry a pertronix? all the pertronix 1 unit is is a magnetic pickup. you put a magnet unit over the distributor shaft, and the pickup that mounts where the points were works just like a set of points when the magnet comes by shorting out the coil to ground.
i have installed over 100 pertronix units over the past 35+ years, and only had one go bad, 3 days after the install.
we have 2 units with over 1 million miles on them in 391 FT engines.

They are also great for people that have better things to do than screw with points. Have I ever had a set of points fail on me? Yes. The Pertronix, app. 10 years old, has never missed a beat.

Not really certain if it would affect it or not. The condenser has a decent chance of being fried from an EMP, just depends on whether or not the vehicle's sheet metal would work as a Faraday cage around the components or not.

Essentially an EMP/flare/whatever just pushes the magnetic field of the planet in such a way as to super charge everything with electrons, in the case of anything technological, the copper wires, lines in a board, etc, anything conductive gathers more.

It could be anything from the traces in the mainboard of your computer collecting enough juice to fry the CPU to your clothes line being too close to the dog house and giving Spot an unhappy wake up call.

If people are worried about solar flares and emps affecting there 40 year old vehicles, they have too much time on their hands. You'd be much better off worrying about what Obama is going to do to you.