Troubleshooting overheating on long tow
 

Hello,

I think I may have a bad fan clutch. I took my truck back to the dealer to checkout because 3 weeks after i bought it 2001 130k v10 F250 the warning light came on for the water temperature while towing.

It had been fine on 2 trips to the exact same location but this day was 85 and high humidity the highest its been (and it will get up much higher this summer)

It only happens on climbs of maybe 4 or 5 minutes and then after the peak it immediately starts to cool back down. It only hit the warning light once but still spikes up to right below the red line on the temp.

So i took it back to dealer they said it was fine and could not duplicate (obvious as they were not towing on a hot day) My load is currently 5k and this truck will need up to 8500 in the near future.

This week I towed it and it got right up to before the red line again but it was cooler and about 75 low humidity.

The truck works fine when not towing and never comes off its mid temp reading. I looked over the radiator and ran a hose through it from inside out looks pretty clean and not loaded up with junk....

someone told me to get it up to temp and shut engine off to see if fan still spins after ending off its may go a couple spins but it does not go on for a ton of revolutions maybe 3 or 4 at most.

I did see a bit of dirt collecting in the fan as it looks when oil gets dirty but not a ton sort of a tiny dusting...

i also dont hear this "roar" when the engine starts up, not sure my truck is suppose to have that "roar" when starting up with the fan cluch....

any thoughts on this this one? replace fan clutch? I have a 3k 3 month warranty on it yet but dealer seems they need a code or real issue...aside from burning it up and driving it there...not much they can do i guess....

dealer pressure tested said no loss, i did my own look around not bubbles out expansion tank or bubbles in the oil, no visible leaks

thank you for any info....

How "loose" is the fan clutch when the motor is cold? Are you able to freely spin it with little to no resistance? If so, that is generally a real good indication of a bad fan clutch. Another area to check, is the condition of your serpentine belt. It can start slipping on high loads if it is worn out.
I had a truck a few years ago, that the fan clutch was bad. On flat ground, with my camper, it was fine, soon as you went uphill, under load, it would start to overheat. Mine was so bad, that, with the engine warmed up, and running, you could grab the fan, and hold it while the engine was running. Should not be able to do that. Once I replaced the fan clutch, it was fine.

Fan Clutch or...
 

Thank you, you can spin it but not freely if you push it maybe it goes an extra 3 or 4 inches then stops its not like you can spin it and it keeps going so there is a bit of tension on it.

I never hear the fan in its "roar" mode so not sure if that is anything. You can take the blades of the fan and muscle it a bit back and forth and it will click a bit ...aka some mild play not on the plastic but the solid metal part you an see it move a tic....

I spoke with the dealer today they are leaning toward head gasket because it happens up hill under load and never at idle or standing still....although many truck owners I talk to say fan clutch....

I would highly doubt the head gaskets Typically when they fail you get water/oil mixing, or loss of coolant out the tailpipe,. When it overheats, then cools off, is the coolant level still reasonably close to where it was before?
Also, you stated there is a bit of dirt collecting in the fan. I am wondering if this is a loss of the viscous fluid in the clutch, collecting on the fan, and collecting dirt.
Although I don't know if the V-10 clutch is any different than previous fords I have owned, I would honestly say at this point if the coolant is not going out the tailpipe, or mixing with the oil, that it could be a marginal fan clutch. And for the price of that versus head gaskets, would replace the clutch to be safe if nothing else.

...
 

It hasn't lost much coolant since Ive been keeping a close eye on it...the first time i had to put a decent amount of coolant in it...but i got it from the dealer two weeks prior and "assumed" all levels were correct..but after I had to add to it I went over the rest of the levels...found low power steering level, very dirty air cleaner, and a leak in the front axle cover,and the exhaust leaned up agains the spare tire....I usually pickup salvage cars and go over everything but this was a first from a dealer (and a ford) so i thought everything would be taken care of as i got from a dealer and their 100 point check or whatever....any way...here we are...

I did check the oil no visible signs, same with coolant, there is some water that drips out the tail pipe on initial start up but i hear that is common and in 5 min its gone....I race stock cars so I have had my fair share of head gaskets, cracked heads, blocks ect so I'm just not sure how they would diagnose a head gasket without a leak down or compression test and how its only showing up under load on a hot day up a hill if head gasket seems like a pin hole to me....i also can do a block test to test the fumes from the coolant...havent gone there yet...the truck is under warranty and the dealer said the head gasket would be covered....I have some photos of my clutch fan best I could do with it on...

I just want this thing working...

Thank you for any help or guidance....



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Sounds like you are taking the right path. I am still leaning towards a possible bad fan clutch. However, if the dealer is really willing to replace the head gaskets, and do the job right, by all means, have them do it. Then, if it still overheats, they can do the fan clutch also. However, all the symptoms you are stating, are the exact same ones I had with a bad fan clutch on a few different vehicles.

Well over a decade old with 130k+ on the clock. I would replace the water pump, coolant and thermostat. Inspect the pulleys(slop), accessories and fan/clutch. Your water pump could be bad shape, erosion from caviation, broken or corroded impeller and etc. Some people neglect coolant changes and with a used vehicle you never know what are going to get. With a vehicle of this age it is to be expected. I know I threw $900+ just in parts at my 04' thus far this year, plus the $300 on synthetic ATF for the trans.

I would also get something better to monitor the coolant temp. A separate temp gauge and sender is best but a Scangauge II which plugs into the OBDII port will do fine. The stock gauge is not anything to use to get a good indication where the coolant temp is at.

Pulled Trigger..
 

Ive had my eye on the Scangauge II, so I pulled the trigger on it today. I agree on the rest of the items I was hoping to get through the summer till the fall to do those items but maybe not.

On the coolant some told me about a flush kit and a garden hose, ever use?

You should like the Scangauge II. I have mine mounted above the rear view mirror on my truck with a mount called the Blendmount. There is an "X gauge" feature where you enter the x gauge codes into the scangauge to monitor more vehicle functions.

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I made a flushing doojigger out of an old coolant tank cap, a hose fitting and some epoxy. Take the plastic nut out on the radiator drain, turn the hose on full, start the truck up with the heater on full and let flush with water for a while. This will flush the radiator, block and heater core. A piece of cardboard helps to keep the water from spraying into the engine compartment.

MOV00826.mp4 Video by SDV10 | Photobucket

Your truck probably came with the green coolant in it. After the flush I would run the Ford Premium Gold coolant. It is under $20 a gallon at the Ford dealership and lasts a long time.

I have to change the water pump on my dads 03' next month before he goes on a long trip. He changed the belt on the truck last year and noticed some play in the bearing of the water pump. His truck has 120k miles on it so it is probably due. I figure I'll pick up a new AC Delco from Rock Auto.

Next Steps
 

Ill continue to update on this one maybe it helps someone down the line:

I got the parts in the mail today, fan clutch (main plan), thermostat, coolant cap (secondary cheap why not replace items), and the scan gauge II to keep on top of everything.

At first glance the fan clutch is much more stiff than what i have on the truck.

So tonight I had a friend over and showed him the new clutch vs what was on the truck and i went one step further to show him a bit of a rock in the fan, not completely noticeable but a tic is there.

So i did it when it was cold and realized it didnt click/rock as much or evean at all...but when i started up the truck the "roar" happened for the first time....i think i may have tweaked something to get it going (i also had put some penetrating oil in the front of the clutch for the past few days saw a youtube video on fixing them) in any case that was short lived but gave me hope i was on the right track because i finally heard the fan roar not doubt a roar...i then noticed a squeaking sound not a belt but something suspicions from the fan area...

Ill be changing out the fan clutch tomorrow....will see. :-drink

7racecar7- Sounds like you are on the right track with the replacement parts and scangauge. Not sure which brand on the thermostat, coolant cap and fan clutch you went with but I recommend motorcraft. Its all warrantied for 2 years, purchasable at most autoparts stores and made by Ford. Some have had issues with off brands.

Yes all motorcraft

Strike 1
 

Well Strike one on the fan clutch replacement I ordered a OEM YB-3082 and the bolt holes are way smaller than whats on the truck. I did find smaller bolts I believe they were metric 5MM may have been 7MM but they were small to the point the lock washer was just barely bigger than the holes in the fan.

so in the mean time i was also attempting to do this with my old one, I found this clip on youtube


I ended up sending the fan clutch back because the setup with the smaller bolts and the fan were sketchy....not sure where to go from here maybe order the fan and clutch together.

So I put the other one back after i followed that you tube method and when i started it up ROAR....yep the fan kicked in like an airplane...but then when off in about 2 min.

so im going to see what it does tomorrow if it ROARs again maybe its fixed but I still want to replace the fan clutch after taking the existing one off the resistance was about the same but i need something reliable...

I also got the ScanGuage II so far its great amazing how low gas milage you get when you juice it up more than it needs, i like the temp so far without towing its at 185-195

YB3082 is listed for trucks with A/C. The YB3025 is for trucks without A/C. Why the bolt size would different is beyond me. However you sometimes run across odd stuff that does not come up on the parts counter computer.

Interesting, I have never noticed the roar either. I wonder is this normal on a cold start up? I have not had any overheat issues, but, have never taken the trailer over any big hills yet. Now I am getting concerned.

I have had mine since new and I never noticed a fan "roar". Same with my dads 03'. The 03' Explorer though that thing roars quite a bit.

I notice the fan clutch when my truck is started. I can also hear it when it comes in on a long hard pull up a hill, I can feel it too as it'll drop a mph or so when it does.

Well it wasnt fan clutch
 

I put a new fan clutch on and same deal. Also the new fan clutch has smaller bolts to it and after finding the bolts the heads almost slide through the holes in the fan leaving play, so after ordering the new fan with smaller holes i had everything together.

I started the truck up and "roar" great i though that was that but I towed again this weekend 90 degrees out and first hill the temp started to get up to the red line I was expecting the fan to engage and it never happened.

So back to turning the heat on full blast to help cool it off, made it to my destination with getting to the red line once and the warning light came on, i pulled off and let it cool...took about 5 min to get back down to 209.

So I drove this week with out towing and the temp was 195 to 203 tops (300 mile trip)....then add the tow(5000lbs) and it got up to 203 quickly then averaged 215 and spiked at 240 when the warning light came one...and cooled it back to 209 and ran the rest of the way around 215 to 220 all temps according to the scan guauge II readings....temp spikes only on inclines.

So I can still get this back to the dealer this week but again they need to duplicated it to fix it...although this time i took video of the trip....also not sure why the fan is not kicking into "roar" mode when it gets hot...i pulled the rubber top of the radiator area today and ran a hose through the back side to front of the radiator then blew it out with air, didnt see a ton coming out.

Not sure what to do from here...the warranty is for power train not sure radiator falls into that category, my worst fear is head gasket but im not loosing coolant, there is a touch of dampness at the bottom of the radiator where the 2 small lines run but that looks like it can be cleaned up and doubt that would cause overheating...

So if i wasnt under warranty i would prob replace the radiator....but since i am i want to eliminate any bigger issue (head gasket that dealer will cover is its the issue)....but the dealer will not be towing up a hill with 5k on a 90 degree day so this duplication thing is the issue as its been there once and they can not reproduce...they did pressure test and said ok.

any advice appreciated...

I would be suspecting a blockage in the radiator. My mom had an old Cadillac that when we took it on a trip the coolant temp light would come on going uphill and go off when going down hill. Never did when driving around town. Only on the long grade called "The Grapevine". I replaced the radiator and it went away. If you have an IR Thermometer you could look for hot and cold spots.

I think vwags may be on the right track otherwise is it possible to switch the heater core hoses around and see if the flow changes or if something loosens.

Did you ever use stop leak in it?

guess
 

I did not, I've owned the truck for about a month and a half, Im a worst case scenario thought guy and really dont trust to many things when it comes to auto....

so got from dealer, on phone they said head gasket, ive been looking for issues before i waste a week back and forth to dealer getting another ride ect trying to trouble shoot whats not covered under warranty and stuff i can fix and should replace anyway for reliability ect...but I would hate to think there was a head gasket issue and they put stop leak/barhs whatever or anything else in it to patch it up and now clogging up flow/radiator...

i change the thermostat today because why not at this point...read on here they can stick...visually they look the same got motocraft to replace the spring is easy to move...not sure what i would be looking for in a bad one...but truck has no issues getting up to temp quick, or overheating anywhere but towing so i would imagine the thermostat would be a long shot...

so anyway if you do it right the block seal/leak/barhs stuff works (ive used in racecars) but you have to follow the direction exact like flushing or running with a spark plug out...and then run out put new coolant mix in...some people just poor it in and think thats that...and leads to the clogging issue...not sure how i would check that, with the thermostat change today i got a good feel for the coolant nothing glaring like chunks...im thinking i might do a flush...to see what comes out..

im thinking about pulling the trigger on a new radiator...will talk to dealer tomorrow assuming the radiator is not in the "power train" warranty...with me towing a new radiator can not hurt anyway with 130k....nothing like braking down with a beast of a truck and a race car in tow 400 miles from home...shoot me...:-X19

So if I read this right the dealer is diagnosing this as a head gasket which they would cover but you don't believe them and are trying get an idea of what it might really be to get them to cover that. I have a hard time believing a head gasket is causing it with out any loss of coolant but if all else fails you could have them do the head gasket and make sure you see the vehicle in process to verify that they are doing the work and not just using a "mechanic in a can".

in a can
 

its not that i dont believe them that is what the guy on the phone said (service manager) after I had it in the first time, they went over it topped off the coolant, pressure tested it and said it was prob the coolant level (i was skeptical because at that point I had the truck for 2 weeks)

so the temp spike happened again 2 days later over the weekend when towing and I called that Monday morning and we were going over what was going on over the phone and he jumped to head gasket..that lead to whats covered under warranty head gasket is...good call on going to check the in process im calling today to sort out the rest...

i really thought it was going to be the fan clutch...and for 200.00 was worth the effort to pursue...so from here I will find out if the radiator is covered if so then it goes is if not i have to consider changing or flushing....eliminate that then everything else is covered under warranty like water pump, heads ect...unless im missing something to check...

have you tried just back washing the radiator? They tend to collect a lot of road dirt over the years. I washed a bunch out of mine when I put my intercooler in.

Wash
 

if you mean take a garden hose and wash from inside out and then blow out with forced air i did a once over, i think i would need to take it out to do it right but i didnt get a ton of dirt out...but after a while with the air i got strands out so it could be something to do more thoroughly...on my list of to dos...if the radiator does not get replaced first...

you mentioned innercooler...what is that...i know what the condenser is then there is one smaller one about 6" tall and as long as the condenser directly in back of condenser on the bottom then about a 6" space then the radiator and i assume transmission cooler lines to the bottom of the radiator...i then have one small one in front of the radiator on the upper left side if you are looking forward over the truck...i assume one is an oil cooler but not sure about the 2nd one...thanks for any help...

An intercooler is like a radiator or any other cooler except that it cools the air charge coming out of a turbocharger or supercharger before it goes into the engine. If you don't have a turbo or supercharger you don't have an intercooler. As I was thinking about it if I was going to have the head gasket replaced I would very likely replace the radiator if for no other reason to protect that new gasket. Maybe replacing the radiator should be in your future regardless of the head gasket. If you try to flush it and it comes out clean does not automatically mean the radiator is clean inside. I still think an IR Thermometer or at least your hand (after turning the engine off of course) placed at different spots on the radiator could give you some clues as to its effectiveness.

IR
 

I shot the radiator with the IR last night operating temp on my scan gauge was 209 there were different temps on the radiator ranging from 154 to 195 the middle was cooler the outside hotter

backwashing the radiator like you said will help clear debris. When the truck is up to temp IR the inlet temp and the outlet to see what the temp drop is across the rad.

IR Temp
 

Ok the top hose is about 188 pending where you hit it highest spot was 192 but mostly 185-190

Then the bigger bottom hose about 172 and the smaller hose about 165

I also noticed some seaping on one of the metal lines going into the bottom of the radiator going to tighten that up or open it up and put some Teflon around it...its minimal but noticeable

Radiator clean found a chirp vide link provided
 

I took the fan and shroud out today and throughly cleaned the radiator mostly small particles of dirt I wouldn't say it was filthy but had some dirt in it, I did notice a slight discoloration in a good portion of the fins a very faint brown coloring spent about 45 min with water and air

On another note I noticed this chirp or ticking

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/u0mDdkKsFVI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I may have gotten water on belt can clean/replace belt and clean up pulleys I read soapy water on belt and degreaser on pully?

If not the water I did change thermostat so could also could have been drops of coolant that made it on belt unlikely bit possible

20-30* drop at idle is normal. Under load less due to the amount of heat being generated. What was ambient temp when you read that? Maybe you could IR it when it's high temp to verify the sender. I would verify temps for ya but I have my headers coming off. I would bore scope the rad to see if it's plugged and maybe start with a water pump, or at least pull it to check the condition of it.

Fixed Noise
 

Well I took the old belt off and cleaned off all the pulleys none made noise on their own or were loose with play with the belt off, I hooked up the new belt that was a bit tighter than the one that was on it.

So I started it up and noise gone, however when I turn the AC on their is a different sounding churp when the compressor kicks on, but then goes away...but comes back on if the ac compressor kick off and on again.

so will see if this helps at all maybe the belt was slipping, the pully for the water pump and tensioner were pretty shiny when I had the belt off not sure if they are suppose to be very shiny though maybe that was a sign of slipping...

Update
 

Well, I tried to run the truck without the tuner chip and same deal, this time I got out and shot the radiator with the IR Gun and the middle was about 90 degrees and I could put my hand over the front of it and it didnt even feel warm while the truck was almost at red line on temp.

So truck went back to dealer monday and they say its the radiator so a new one is getting installed.

Hopefully thats the end of the overheating, I sure learned alot in a quick amount of time about my truck, onto tuning if this is finally sorted out thanks for everyone who chimed in.

Problem Solved: Changed the Radiator the temp never went above 191 on a 95 degree day.

I would suggest shooting the middle of the radiator with and IR gun while up at temp my old was was at 95degrees in the middle and pretty much was the issue.

Thank you all for your help.