390 Crankshaft
 

HI, I am new to Ford Truck forum and also a newbie in mechanic.
I got a 74 F100 with a 360, I measured the stroke. I was not planning on rebuilding the engine any time soon, but after I took the head , I saw a head gasket was blown!
Now I am planing to rebuilt the engine with a 390 conversion. I bought the book from Barry Rabotnick, and saw the website of his speed-shop: Survival Motorsports.
A bunch of part available their as the 390 reconditioned crankshaft.
Does this crankshaft will fit my truck:
Factory 390 Crankshaft - reconditioned

Then I really thought I had to get some connecting rod for 390, I thought they were shorter than the 360 and I discovered in the book than they are all the same, except for the 352! So I could keep the rod and maybe the piston if no re-bore is necessary, just a ring kit.

I am not planing of making a race or strip truck, but a little Hp will be nice.
I saw a couple of c8aeh head ready to install with a CJ valve job.

The truck have a 3 speed on the floor and a 3.25 rear diff.

I would also like to have a descent mileage.

What are you guys thinking about those different part, will it work?

Any comment is welcome.

Thanks for your advice.


Laurent


ps: photo coming soon

360 uses longer connecting rods. You'll need crank, rods and pistons.

C8AE or D2TE heads with 1.66/2.09 valves are very good and cheap alternatives.

Josh

Thanks Josh That is what I thought initially, the book confused me..
What is the average price for the CJ head ready to bolt on with the 2.09 - 1.6?
I saw a pair for $900, is it a good deal, they have the 16 bolt pattern for the exhaust.

And here is some picture of the truck, I know I am going a little bit of topic and I should maybe start a new thread, just wanted to share:.

<a href="http://s1072.photobucket.com/user/laurentlesage/media/bed3_zpseec74149.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/laurentlesage/bed3_zpseec74149.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo bed3_zpseec74149.jpg"/></a>

The donor a bed from 82 f150<a href="http://s1072.photobucket.com/user/laurentlesage/media/DSC_0048_zps1cdb56ae.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/laurentlesage/DSC_0048_zps1cdb56ae.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSC_0048_zps1cdb56ae.jpg"/></a>

Cutting all the spot weld:<a href="http://s1072.photobucket.com/user/laurentlesage/media/DSC_0044_zps29834fae.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/laurentlesage/DSC_0044_zps29834fae.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSC_0044_zps29834fae.jpg"/></a>

And the new bed done
<a href="http://s1072.photobucket.com/user/laurentlesage/media/DSC_0052_zpscf921041.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/laurentlesage/DSC_0052_zpscf921041.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSC_0052_zpscf921041.jpg"/></a>

Here is the valve cover, the white on the right make me think a head gasket was blown:
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And the valve:
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the spacer springs on the rocker shaft was broken
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and here is the truck:
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That's a nice truck that is begging for a healthy motor!

A machine shop should be able to refurbish your existing heads with CJ valves for roughly $600 or less.

If you have the coin I would personally consider a set of Edelbrock aluminum heads. About $1200 for the set.

Josh

The problem is the passenger side head is broken at the exhaust side, as you can see:
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I would like to go for the cheapest option, but I know I have to buy at least one similar head.
I never deal with a machine shop and don't have any idea of what it will cost!

Thanks


Laurent

Also I am going to pull the engine and transmission and I would like to know if taking off only the hood will leave enough room?
Thanks

Yep, I have on occasion let the air out of the front tires.

However, I usually drop the tranny from the bottom and lift straight up on the engine from the top.

Josh

Thanks Josh,
It is good to know, there is so much bolts who attach the front end!
I was thinking using one of those lift engine plate but I don't know about the strength of the 4 little bolt!...
So any advice for where to attach the chain to the engine will be much appreciated!

Thanks

Laurent

The carb plates are perfectly fine for lifting.

Josh

Agree the carb plates are fine. I and many others have used them including heavier engines and aluminum manifolds. Use good grade 5 or 8 bolts with full thread engagement. Tighten them gently, no heavy pre-load is required and lift away.

Thanks guy,
I got an engine lift plate and the grade 8 bolts, there is approximately 1/2 inch of thread! Everything is ready, I am waiting for my father in law to bring the cherry picker on Saturday and we will give it a shot, I will keep you posted.

Thanks again

Laurent

I have a built 390 car motor in my 76 highboy but if I had a short wheel base F100 with 3.28 gears I'd be building a 300 inline six with a ZF-5 trans conversion .. Best gas mileage going for a ford carbed motor and parts .. Plenty of power with a few upgrades Ford Inline Six, 200, 250, 4.9L / 300 - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

Really nice job on the bed BTW :-X22

Thanks Redroad,
I understand putting an inline 6 with an other transmission for better mileage! but this is not going to be a daily driver, I know this is not a reason to try to get a better mileage. How much it will cost to do the swap, isn't it cheaper to stick with what I have, and since I heard you get better fuel efficiency with a 390 that's why I am going this way!
Then I am not sure about the 3 speed manual transmission, is there any 4 or 5 speed who will bolt on? I am sure there is plenty of thread talking about it, and I am not to this point yet. And if changing for a 4 or 5 speed transmission what will be the impact with the 3.28 ratio?
I am not going to race or do strip, I am just looking for a little bit of power. Also I am planning to use it as a truck, like towing a small boat on some occasion. And as I said I am learning HP, torque & compression ratio I am still little bit confused about all of that.

Yes the bed is looking much better, what a pain to file all the holes square! But I am glad I did it.

Thanks

Laurent

You should be able to find buildable 300 motor for $150 to $300 and sometimes something for that money that still has plenty of life left in it .. As you can afford it you can add an offenhauser 4-barrel intake, a 390 cfm holley 4 barrel carb, a pair of EFI exhaust manifolds, and give it plenty of power to pull anything you want .. afterall they put this motor in dump trucks etc. .. The ZF-5 conversion expense depends on the donor vehicle .. You can find a ZF-5 2ws trans in the $200 to $500 range but you will need some additional parts for that conversion .. or for $100 you could just put in a a NP435 4spd not what I would do but if money is an issue it would work fine until you could afford the ZF-5 swap .. The 390 motor with a 5 speed is a much different matter it would be expensive .. Look up HIO silver build I think he is doing that in an F100

Your truck is lightweight compared to the F250 and F350 4x4 .. I have a 300 in one of my !976 highboys and its plenty of motor for what I use it for an it has a small dump bed on the back and a snow plow brace on the front .. Look in the 300 inline six forum there are plenty of guys building F100's and full size bronco's with 300 six's and absolutely love them and they are getting 17-20 mpg where the most I ever got out of a 390 4 barrel 2wd with manual transmission was 12 mpg ..

Thanks for the link of HIO, really impressive, I would be curious to see the MPG he get with all those mods.
I started to read about the 300 engine, a bullet proof engine with some people going to 300 000 with only regular oil change!
I will be curious to know how many HP you can get from the 300?
I will keep reading about it but it is going to be hard for me to let the V8 go away! I am from France and moved 6 years ago here in Florida and having a big V8 in France is impossible because of the gas price! When I was in France with a friend we use to listen to V8 on YouTube!..

We pulled the engine on Saturday, my step father and I, and it was easier than I thought. I had to put a lift jack under the transmission, and the engine came preety easy! I didn't have to deflate my tire.
But I can say a flat driveway is a better option, mine have slope, and we had to move the car back because we couldn't move the cherry picker!
Next will be put the engine on the stand and start to open it up.

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Good job ! I have a special place in my heart for the FE motors my first Ford truck had a 390 4 barrel and it was the 1st motor I ever built :-X04 and I still run a 390 in one of my 1976 highboys but when fuel went above $3.50 a gal. for 87 octane I started playing with the 300 six motor .. I have had for a number of years a 300 that I run on propane for a stationary electrical backup generator ..

Here's some 300's in F100's to listen to

Mckoloum I'm looking forward to your project. I suggest you do what you've been wanting to for a long time and build the 390. An American V8 sings a sweet tune that no straight six can replicate. I'm not bashing the six because it's a good motor just saying you can't help wanting what you want. Good luck bud.

I haven't been following this thread until now. Welcome to FTE mckoloum, lots of good people here.
Nice looking truck and a good start to a project.
Where in "sunny Florida" are you located?

You can't want MPG and a 390 at the same time :-X04 unless you get both

There is an option for an "off-the-shelf" 5 speed, but it's not cheap.
New Process (Chrysler) and Muncie (GM) formed New Venture Gear in the early 90's, and made several 5 speed truck transmissions that found their way into both GM and Dodge pickups.
The most common, is the NV4500. As one of the few 5 speed truck transmissions ever built (for a production truck) with a separate bellhousing, it can be adapted to fit nearly any engine, in 2wd or 4wd configuration. This is accomplished with either a custom bellhousing, or a spacer/adapter to bolt the NV trans to the stock bellhousing.
The NV4500 is a rather robust trans, as the HD version was used in Dodge trucks behind both the V10 and Cummins diesel. However, they do have one weakness, the nut holding the 5th gear on the back of the mainshaft can back off, and if this happens, the gears can be damaged, and 5th gear can become unusable. There are fixes for this issue, so they should be considered if one decides to try this conversion.

Link to one (of many) sites that offer info on conversions. It specifically mentions the FE about 1/2 down the page.
New Page 1

You are right Blue,
I know it is going to hurt my wallet with the MPG but for me the V8 is a part of the American history! When you are a kid and you see all those movies like Bullit, Two Lane Blacktop or Vanishing Point, like me you need to have a V8.
I had a 1995 Bronco, with the 5.8L. engine, it was my daily driver and it really hurt me driving 45 miles/day! Now I missed it...

Thanks Mike,
I am in the West Palm Beach area.
You are right I find some help in here really quick, it help a lot to have all of you guys ready to share your knowledge, Thanks to all of you.

Thanks for the info Rogue,
I just looked at the link, this will be a nice modification.
My budget is really low, trying to keep the cost as low as I can, I might stick with my 3 speed for now.
I also read you can improve the mileage by putting the right part in the engine, what you guys think will be best combination, for low budget!

The FE motor is the most expensive of Ford motors to rebuild but it was worth it to me .. You will have to decide whether your budget can hold up ..
For example on a budget but still wanting the motor to perform I might choose these heads http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Heads-390-428-GT-6-B-14-6-B15-C6AE-6090-R-/191189063008?hash=item2c83c19560&item=191189063008&pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr
Do you want it to be able to use 87 octane fuel?

Do you have kids ? :-X04

There's not much you do to improve the MPG with an FE. But, there's also not much you can do to hurt the MPG either, so you might as well make it run good.

That said, building a 390 with ~9.5:1 CR and a mild-ish cam (like comp H268) can net better MPG than a stock (dog) 360/390. This obviously requires driving with a bit of throttle restraint........
Easy way to get that CR range, is use stock 360 pistons (in the correct overbore as needed) on 390 rods/crank. The 360 used a piston that was originally built for the 390, but since it stopped more .100 away from the head, the CR (in the 360) was in the low 8:1 range. The same piston on 390 rod/crank, gives 9.3-10:1 CR depending on head CC.

So what money you would be saving on building a higher compression ratio motor for MPG? you immediately lose on the added price of 91 octane fuel or at least part of it.. Now that sounds reasonable :-X04 I'd go with 9.0:1 max

Redroad, funny you show me this link, I saw those but the description said it will not fit the 8 bolt manifold without drilling 4 new holes? And those are with the CJ valve.
Does having the CJ valve or stock valve will change anything in MPG?
No I don't have kid, why?
Being able to put 87 will be a nice thing.

Rogue if I understand I should stay below the 9.5:1 compression ratio. And the compression ratio is one of those thing I can't figure out yet, I understand the CC from the head and cylinder chamber play a role in it, but does the camshaft have an incidence on the CR?

Will the CJ size valve give better mpg ? Not to much I would say but it will make the engine breath better and run more efficiently .. Where you will notice it is when you step on the accelerator .. The 12 bolt pattern for exhaust will only matter if you are going to try and use a stock exhaust manifold .. You can get headers for the 390 with a 12 bolt flange .. Kids means no money for toys .. My kids grown and out of the house .. now the grandkids are almost driving age .. I've been working on a F250 for/with Grandson number 1 so it's ready when he's old enough ..

With proper ignition timing, you can still run 87 octane in a 390 with 9.5:1 CR. Of course, much higher than that, and 91 can become required.

The 74 I have, has a 390 with 360 pistons, a factory 390GT/428CJ camshaft, with D2 heads (9.3-9.5:1 CR), and it runs fine on 87 octane with the timing set a couple degrees back from optimal. Optimal timing, it prefers 89 octane, but can still handle the cheaper stuff. It's been this way since Dad built the engine some 25 years ago...... About 3 years before my youngest kid was born.

That sounds good .. On my 76 highboy I still tow with it on occasion so I needed to keep the CR down but the heads were reworked for CJ size valves keeps exh. temps motor temps down when it's workin .. It still has truck duties :-X04

So does the 74. It currently has a 12V Cummins sitting in the back, under a tarp.
It does rather well when towing too. Much better than when Dad bought it off the lot in 74.........

Well, I guess I will go this route and try to get the head with the CJ. Since I have to buy a head (broken @ the exhaust) and then do a new valve job... It might be cheaper to get those on Ebay and they are only 2:30 hours from home, I could do the trip and save on the shipping.

Then I have a dumb question I was looking to put the engine on the stand this morning, and I saw I could only put 2 bolt where the bell housing bolt goes, is this correct?
Also there is like 4 plugs who can be remove with a allen key, should I remove those before putting the engine on the stand? They will not be accessible after..

The bell housing is off,Right?
you should have 4 bolts into the block .. All plugs will have to be removed before you have it tanked and magnifluxed to make sure you have a block worthy of the build

Nice on the cummins .. All I could afford is a built 340 hp 460 in the F350 dually .. That's what I use mostly for towing but a cummins swap is out of the question for now .. Still adding on to the house etc.

Due to scoring good deals on both the Cummins and NV4500, I expect to have less invested in the swap than what a built 460 usually runs. It does help that I work as a mechanic, and we do speak diesel truck. I just did a major rework on a sick-o (6.0L PSD). Jobs like that, really add to the Cummins swap budget.......
This swap is going into an 80 F150. But, once it's all done, I could easily move the entire package to a heavier chassis, should I want to.....

That's going to be nice :-X22

Happy Memorial Day,
Thanks to all the vet, without those heroes I will probably speak German now!

Do you guys think this will be a good choice, reconditioned crankshaft? $200
Crankshafts

And what about those rods? $280
Connecting Rods

I mean I don't want to rebuilt an engine and having last 20 000 miles, I rather take more time to rebuild it and make sure it will last and I don't know about reconditioned part, what do you guys think?

Yesterday I put the engine on the stand and start to open it up.
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Thanks for the Memorial day wish

The rods you have can be reconditioned and with some new ARP bolts will be plenty good .. As long as your crank hasn't spun a bearing then having it reconditioned is also good .. You will save your self a couple $100 and end up in the same place

Reconditioned parts are fine, as long as they are done correctly. That supplier specializes in FE stuff, so I would imagine they are done very right.

If you bought used parts, you would take them to a machine shop for reconditioning, and it would cost you about the same or more than the prices you posted, to get a good job.

He has a 360, and wants to build it into a 390.