Repair question, opinions wanted...
 

My mechanic for the last few years has moved out of my area and I tried someone new for a repair. Curious about what others think about this:

I brought my truck in because the exhaust manifold ('03 F250, 5.4L) on the drivers side starting leaking. The mechanic pointed out a broken stud at the rear of the manifold. He replaced the manifold, gasket, and a new stud kit, however two broken studs are still left in there. The two broken studs left in there are the ones at the rear of the manifold. He used a better gasket and some sort of sealer. It's quiet now, but I'm just concerned that the repair may not last. I never dealt with this mechanic before and was surprised that he wouldn't have tried to get those two studs out, but I'm not the mechanic.

Is it possible for the repair to hold up or is it essential to have studs/nuts on those last two ports? Is it possible for the other 6 studs/nuts to hold and seal everything?

get a new mechanic, that is bush league repair. There should be no "sealer" just proper working studs and an exhaust gasket. You can not get proper application of pressure on the mating surfaces with missing/broken studs.

I agree totally with PSDlongbox.

I was thinking the same thing, the studs are there for a reason. I'm not very pleased, especially after spending a tad over $400 on this repair.

There were broken studs when you went in and you have broken studs leaving.
The repair is substandard.
I'm sure you could run along time as is but,
you could have run along time as was, also.

Yeah I'm still shocked as the mechanic seemed to think it would be fine. Granted the leak/ticking is gone, but yeah, for how long? I think the two studs at the rear were just too much work? He obviously didn't want to get in there. I'm just amazed that someone would go through that much work and not fix the studs. It's so hard to find a good mechanic.

at the least, your mechanic should have informed you that the two studs in the rear would need to be extracted and replaced above and beyond the original estimate. He then should have quoted you an addition labor charge to correct the situation. If you the customer, at that time, would have declined the repair than that is on you. IF he is willing to attack a problem with a "F it" attitude, it only leads me to believe he is unable to perform quality work.

Where do you live? Maybe somebody on the board can point you towards a reputable repair facility in the area?

Heck, if you live anywhere near me, I know I would be happy to help out a fellow FTE'r that doesn't mind buying a few beers and getting their hands dirty :)

There was no repair, the failure was left and a patch was implemented.

Where are you located? People might be able to point you to a good place/guy.

Both of you guys are spot on. I went there and told the mechanic to fix the problem, he saw one stud initially when I dropped the truck off. He mentioned then that sometimes they don't come out, but he would try. When I picked up the truck today he told me that both were broken, but never offered to fix them. I never mentioned that I wanted to cut corners, never asked for an estimate, I just wanted the problem fixed. I'm pissed that he did a patch job, none the less for $400.

PSDlongbox; dinner, a few beers, and an extra set of hands would be the least I could do to return the favor and thanks for the offer. Not sure where you live, but I'm in Northern NJ, Hackensack area. Any shop recommendations would be great.

A welder is your friend, thats how i got mine out. Easy easy

https://sphotos-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/h...26137977_n.jpg

spun right out, both broken off below surface of head
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...64075462_n.jpg

good post Miles...heat always makes things easier

Sadly, I am located in Michigan so the drive would be quite difficult lol. I am sure there are plenty of people on here that live in your area though. Maybe start a new thread asking for a reputable shop in the Hackensack area. I'll bet you will find many here willing to help.

if you go to the New Jersey chapter, there is a shops in Jersey thread.
i think the closest to you would be Craig, screen name Jerzyfresh in rockaway. he is a tech at meadowlands ford, so he knows what he is doing.

here is a link to the shops thread.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...ics-in-nj.html

Yeah I saw Craig's info, he hasn't been on this forum in quite some time, but I'm going to call him.

What's a good way to handle the current situation with the inadequate repair? Obviously he didn't fix the original issue and I did spend over $400. Either way it puts me in a bind in how to deal with him. He needs to know that he has an unhappy customer, but how?

I'd go back and ask where the other 2 studs are.

The whole experience was a mess. First time trying this guy who has been in business a long time and I heard some decent word of mouth.

He had my truck for 3 days and made it seem like he'd get to it in between or when he could. I let it go while this was happening, but I was just in shock yesterday when he told me the same two studs that were broken from the beginning were still broken. He made it seem like he put enough time into it and this was the best he could do. He said the better gasket and sealer should hold up. I walked away scratching my head wondering.

kinda like a learning experience.




























you learned his steady customers that swear by his "good work"
are clueless freakin idjiots with more money than brains.

I just spoke to Craig from the board, he no longer works at Meadowlands Ford, but still does side work. He said he'd be more than willing to take a look. He wanted to know if the guy had even tried messing with the broken studs and maybe gave up. I just checked and it doesn't even look like the guy tried to get them. They're the last two towards the rear and are in an awkward spot, but still, a good mechanic shouldn't hesitate. There is still a good amount of the stud exposed beyond the head on both of them as well.

like posted above, I have welded a nut onto the end of many a stubborn stud. I have yet "knock on wood" to meet one that wouldn't come out with a touch of heat and a welded nut.

Should be a fairly easy (as far as easy and broken studs in the heads go) fix. especially with new manis on, all the new nuts should spin right off, pull mani, extract broken studs and install new ones, and reassemble.

I just find it interesting it was the drivers side that leaked. My old truck the drivers side every stud came right out so easily, passenger side was the more difficult one. Although after I drove it for 2 days before my friend could weld it, I had the fender liner and header off in 40 mins lol

Talked to the mechanic who did the job and he said he tried removing the studs, but was unable to. He said he tried heat and vise grips but could not get them out.

What an amateur...

I'm a DIY guy and removed the two rear-most studs both sides of my V10. Took a bit of work, but I got it done. Whatever you do, when the manifold is completely off the truck, TAKE PICTURES of the broken studs. If they weren't even touched with vice-grips, it'll be obvious, and even if they were, take pics.

Then, go back to the OWNER of the business you first went to, explain what happened, explain that you brought it in to HAVE THE STUDS REPLACED and you want your original $400 back because they never actually replaced them.

At least, that's what I would do. Maybe in a letter with pictures printed out and mailed with the letter. If the guy is honest, he'll refund your money.

Amateur is right, just got off the phone with the owner, not much help either.

The owner explained that the mechanic tried getting the studs out, but that he didn't want to risk damaging the head or having to remove the head if he did cause damage. He explained that he'll stand by the repair and that he'll take care of it if it leaks. I was so livid while I was talking to this guy, that I just shook my head in disbelief. I explained to him that I spent $400 for a repair and that the same issue still exists. He said it's sealed for now, to keep an eye on it, and if it does leak, he'll make it right. Both of these guys are clowns and I'm just trying to keep my cool. He obviously wasn't open to anything else but standing by his half ass attempt. I told him that I have a guy who's pretty confident that he will get them out. He asked me how he plans on getting them out. That went no where as he sounded like he was the only one that knows anything about this stuff.

I'm going to talk to Craig from the forum early next week. He was willing to help and do the repair. He's about 45 minutes from me, so it's not that simple to get there, etc., but we'll see. I'm so fed up with this experience that part of me wants to just leave it alone and forget about it. But part of me wants to get it repaired and do like Krewat mentioned, take pics and then go back there with ammunition and tell him to refund my money for a repair that he didn't repair.

Why is it so hard to find a good mechanic? I have no problems paying for good service, that's all I want, LOL.

A lot of the issues are created by how mechanics are paid. You take your truck into the shop and ask that the manifold studs be replaced. The shop looks at the flat rate book and it says that replacing the manifold studs for a 20XX year truck with a V-10 is a "Y" hour job. (For our example, we will say Y=4 hours).

The mechanic is assigned the job. If he finished in 2 hours, he still clocks 4 hours. If he takes 8, he still gets paid for 4 hours.

This creates a situation where the mechanic is not encouraged to make correct repairs, but to instead make "half-fast" (say it quickly) fixes and defend his actions by telling the customer exactly what you were told.

It's a two man shop and I think the mechanic just didn't want to spend time on it. Labor was $220 which tells me about 2.5 to 3 hours was put into the repair. What really got me was that I dropped the truck off before the mechanic got in on Friday (scheduled from earlier in the week) and he calls me at the end of the day saying he didn't get to it and would try to on Saturday. He calls me early in the afternoon on Saturday saying he just got started and would finish on Monday. I think he just didn't want to put the time in to do the repair correctly (because of inexperience and possibly work volume), figuring a patch job would get me in and out? 3 days of having my truck and 2.5 to 3 hours of labor sounds like they don't know how to schedule work?

Update/Good News...
 

I'd like to thank everyone who participated in my thread and also would like to give two thumbs up to this forum.

I had called Craig from the forum (he had done work for others and previous posts were positive) and he told me he'd take the job on. He suggested having it done at the shop he works at and I thought that was a great idea. I talked to the shop owner and he was confident and said it would be no big deal.

They had my truck for one day and they replaced all the studs, having to drill/tap the two that were giving the other mechanic issues. The shop was professional and courteous. The owner pointed out how they did the repair and also pointed out that someone had cut away at the "flap" that hangs from the inner wheel well. I can't prove it, but it had to be the hack of a mechanic that attempted the job previously?

I feel better now knowing that the job was done right and that I gained a good shop for possible future work. The shop is a little over a half an hour away from me, so it's not that convenient, but if I need something done right, I'm sure I can coordinate it to work.

I spoke to the owner of the shop that did the patch repair. I explained everything to him everything that had happened and he understood where I was coming from. I asked for him to refund the money for everything but the manifold, as that was the only part able to be reused. He had no issues with refunding my money and I thanked him for that.

Thanks again to everyone here for helping.

I am glad you had a good outcome all the way around.

Yes, good to hear you got it all worked out in the end!

Broken rear studs 5.4 liter for the record these are SS studs and they are a mother to drill
 

The problem with the rear studs are the Aluminum heads corrode and the studs do not come out easy. You have to grind them almost flush and get the adapter plate screw it into the other studs that were removed and slowly dril the studs out moving up to a 17/64 drill and use a 8mil 2 1.25 mil thread chaser to clean the threads and if not heali coil the last two. there is no way anyone can do this for $400.00 and if they tell you that run because either they are not going to do the job correctly or think they can just put a doublle gasket set on it to seal it. N/G zI know this is an old post but I hope this willl help someone that is trying to get info.

Heating the studs to red hot from welding most times burns out the aluminum oxidation that locks the studs in place. Much like rust.