early vs late model fuel pumps
 

i noticed the late model trucks dont have the "inline" pump setup like the older trucks . . . after some homework i found that ~'89 was the year they stopped using the low press tank pumps and the high press inline pump.

well:
- which setup can flow more fuel?
- are the new-er in tank high pressure pumps a direct swap?
- can they be used in conjunction with the older factory in-line pump?

Personally I would keep the setup the way it came from the factory. ie if an '89 or older keep the in tank low pressure pumps as well as the high pressure frame rail pump. I see no reason to change. Always follow the 1/4 tank rule (never run the tank below 1/4 full as the fuel cools the pumps) This rule applies to all years. A lot of of people think that is BS, but I have logged hundreds of thousands of miles in Ford fuel injected vehicles with zero fuel pump problems.

Well I suppose I should have indicated that im exceeding the limits if the factory fueling capability, and that's why id swap pumps. Im toying with the options that aren't aftermarket. . Id never even remotely ponder swapping pumps or playing with a stock fuel system inside of its capable range. Pointless.

And actually...there's another way to look at it. Why keep it factory? Ford saw fit to change it because the new setup worked better. And also, by upgrading (if it's pretty easy), you lose one pump. That's one less pump to fail later on. Also the wiring that goes with it. So, yea, I think it's worthwhile to swap.

Well unfortunately newer is not always better. Companies are always looking fir ways to reduce cost per unit (per vehicle). The late model in-tank pumps are without a doubt cheaper and simpler than the old tri pump setup, so with that bein sad I wouldn't be surprised if the old setup is better. But, the late model pumps might just be a great way to make a more-than-adequate fuel setup when combined with the older inline pump.

Exactly. I've run walbro 255hp pumps wih the stock inline pump. Works real well. The frame pump free flow is quite impressive and won't be a restriction. It will compliment it just fine. If you worry it's wearing out, buy a Bosch 044 pump to put in its place along with the 255s you'll have enough fuel to power the space shuttle.

So what is the rating on those late model tank pumps?

I know newer isn't always better...in a lot of cases it's not. But I think in this case, cutting out that third pump, is definitely a plus...

I can't remember but it's like a 160-175 lph at 40psi. I'm probably wrong but they are decent pumps. Free flow is over 255 so you won't be trying to push fuel through it.
(I reread above)
The stock "low" pressure intank pumps flow like a bugger but just won't pressurize. I'm not sure what the rating but ford put the numbers on the side of most all the pumps I've replaced.

I think one I replaced was 70lph but I don't remember what it come out of

hmm, i guess ill have to rip into the tanks that came out of my donor truck and see if the pumps read anything out on the housings. im thinkin if the high press inline pump is what does all the work to pressurize the rail then receiving higher psi from one of the later in-tank pumps that will actually pressurize the rail on their own will be akin to slappin an aftermarket "in-line" pump so often associated with car builds and lazy folk (ive never been a fan of adding in-line pumps to "lift" a stock pump in a high performance app)

I can't remember where, but i've heard this to. I personally have never ran close to empty. My own little rule is, when I hit half mark, that's when I start looking around for the cheapest price, when I get it, I fill it right up.

I to, never had a problem with in tank pumps.

Ive heard the in tank pump works great in a carb application when you delete the frame rail pump, but i have no first hand knowledge of this. And none of this applies to your situation anyways so.... lol

The newer type are 125 LPH (33 GPH) @ 310 KPA (44 PSI).
The older in-tank pumps are the same pumps used by Ford before FI on the carbureted engines.
They just added the selector valve and high pressure pump when they went to FI.
I have used in-tank pumps out of a FI 1989 Ford on an older 1982 carbureted E350 RV with a 460 engine.

The photo below are fuel pumps out of a 1995 F150 with a 5.0L but the same pump are used on the 7.5L engine.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...03489small.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...03491small.jpg

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thanks for all the help. i certainly suspect ill have some lean issues caused by the fuel system. the tank pumps are original with damn near 300k miles on them, so once i get it up and running ill probably swap the pumps from my parts truck to remedy any lean issues. ill post up the results so others can benefit from cheap fuel system upgrade if (assuming its successful) they too suffer from a lack of fuel supply.

So going through old threads, and i see I completely missed your original questions. Dunno how that happened.

On my 89 I am using a high pressure intank pump for a 90 model year, along with my on rail pump. My tank started leaking, so I replaced it with the tank from a 90 model year parts truck, complete with pump. Took all the measurements, and the 2 tanks were identical. replaced the tank, and 2 weeks later the "new" old pump died. Replaced it with a brand new one, sourced for a 90 model year, and has worked great for me ever since. I have no idea if my on rail pump even works any more, but the truck fires up just fine whenever i need it to.

I'm getting ready to replace both pumps in the tank...I started searching and found this. great minds think alike, I didn't even remember making this until I found it and started reading :D


I need to buy a new front tank, so I think i'll buy a tank/pump assembly for the newer fuel system. I want to get rid of the old system so I wont get stranded if the in line goes bad....one good thing about the dual tanks is the ability to have a "spare" fuel system already in place.


any issues that have been found by those that have done this, please share.


for now, ill leave my in-line pump in place and pull it if it causes an issue. the consensus seems to be it wont be a problem, whether its running or not.

still runnin strong?

I was thinking of doing the same. I have a tank out of a '90 Bronco I was going to use.
I'd like to delete the wiring for the front pump, though.

Yup, fired it up just last week

Just had to replace my rear tank fuel pump. $600. I wish I knew what aftermarket pumps i could use and set up yet no harm to performance.:-drink

Since I see nobody answered this part no you cannot put the new style fuel pump in the old style tank. I personally tried it with no luck.
Trav

this is something I was curious about. I was going to start with a new tank/pump assembly (hope I can find something that isn't junk) for the newer trucks. I need a new front tank anyway, big gash in the side from driveshaft puncture wound. my rear isn't in too bad of shape, but theyre pretty cheap so I wouldn't mind replacing it.


just curious, what makes them incompatible when attempting to swap?

For some reason it his the front if the tank (toward the cab when installed) plus it seems like it isn't quite as deep.


The fronts will swap but not the rear.
I have an old style fuel pump in a 90 tank on my 88. I am waiting to install the correct rear tank since it won't work unless I do like you say but I have no reason to.
Trav

ahhh. thanks for the info.


too bad my rear tank isn't the one that's destroyed then....but oh well. figure I freshen it all up with new tanks and make my life easier in the process. all clean stuff to install, no crusty fuel tanks to wrench on, and I pop a hole in the tank and drain the gas too if I get the tank/pump combo.....

no problem man.
Trav

I know this is an old thread, but am very interested in doing the same to my 1989 f350.

I started with issues with the Dual Function Reservoir (which I am sure you do away with in the upgrade because of it's pressure sensitivity) finding it hard to find 3/8" fuel line connectors to replace the ones with torn/missing O-rings... so...
and found this thread.

It may be much easier to just go this route, instead of fighting the existing system?

I have researched this a little, and found that Walbro fuel pumps come highly recommended.
I found they build 'Universal' models that only replace the existing in-tank pump, leaving the rest of the assembly intact... so no need to replace the tank to a new model.
The price is right too!
The 255LPH model should work?
https://walbrofuelpumps.com/walbro-gss-fuel-pumps

They even have a 450LPH in-tank pump for 750+HP engines!
https://walbrofuelpumps.com/catalogs...esult/?q=f9000

And lots of accessories, such as in-tank strainer filters, wire harnesses, and other needed hardware.

Would all I need for this is to replace the in-tank fuel pumps, swap the Dual Function Reservoir for a universal tank/valve switch (with new switch at dash) and swap needed fuel lines/connectors?

EDIT:

Looked more thoroughly on the Walbro website and found in-tank pumps made for 1989-1997 Ford trucks! MADE IN USA too! :)
Ford F53 - 1997-89 8 Cyl. 7.5L Walbro OEM Fuel Pump Full Assembly Module - PN# TU205

These I assume are for the post 1989 trucks.

Somewhere, perhaps NLOC web site (Lightning Onwers), is info on using both pumps at the same time to boost fuel pressure. One of FTE's older members once described it but I have no details on how its done.

(Edit. Oh crap, thread mining & fell for it :rolleyes: )

You weren't the miner, you just followed him into the mine.

I've since discovered the factory fuel pumps are quite adequate for our low rpm small block builds...which makes sense considering they fuel 460s as well.

Richard: good quality oem replacement high pressure pumps are sufficient for anything except high rpm (6000+?) or boost.

The high pressure pumps have check valves built into them, when they receive back pressure from the other tank, they close. So you needn't do anything fancy in that regard, you do have to get rid of the dual function reservoir, the increased pressure will eventually cause the unit to fail altogether and keep fuel from flowing through it, been there.

:-missingt:-missingt:-missingt

That link you posted for the oem replacement pump, is of oe spec, meaning 90lph of so. And yes, it's for 1990+ vehicles that use the fdm, instead of the tank selector on the frame.
If you want a badass pump, for the rear anyway, and want to get rid of the tank selector on frame, upgrade the rear tank to a f26, and use this...
HFP 255LPH Fuel Pump Assembly *Rear Tank* Ford F150 1990 - 1996

It would be somewhat problematic and expensive to go this route... as the F26e is made up to 1989 trucks...not 1990+.

Don't know if a 1990 or later hanger (different type pump, would need new hanger)would work on this tank, or what other mods would need to be done to get it to fit and work correctly... as the tank is much deeper also.

I could use the F26e with my current hanger, add an aftermarket high pressure in-tank pump and lengthen the shaft on the sending unit to accommodate the deeper tank.

EDIT:

Ok, after a little more research it looks like this tank also works on up to 1997 trucks, so the 1990's style hanger should fit, but again, that's over $100 for a new hanger by itself... this is getting expensive, over $450 for tank + hanger + pump... :)

You need to get a little more creative...
Junkyard hanger is like $12.
You don't NEED to upgrade the tank, it was a suggestion. But if you need a new tank anyway, you might as well upgrade.
The fdm eliminates the need for the frame rail tank selector, so if you're upgrading anyway, then the cost of the newer lines isn't a big deal. Again, go to junkyard. The newer fuel lines are stainless... And cheap.

If you don't care about dual tanks, or want to run a bigger pump with your frame rail tank selector, just buy a walbro 255, they are under 100 on eBay. Put another fuel filter where the frame mounted high pressure pump was, that's what I've done.

I originally planned to use the Walbro 255, but just so everyone knows... ONLY buy them from Walbro!
The market, including parts dealers, are flooded with counterfeit pumps that prematurely fail.
There are many, many posts about this and articles on the internet... it is so bad that even Walbro has posted this on their website:

http://walbrofuelpumps.com/media/fav...lt/favicon.ico

I may just replace existing low pressure in-tank pump with Walbro 255 in rear tank, replace supply fuel line with later stainless and run 1 tank for now... then add the tank selector valve and replace 2nd tank low pressure in-tank pump with another Walbro 255 later.... I have other parts needed for the truck and limited funds :)

Ive the older 3 pump setup on my truck, for a while there both in tank pumps had stopped working and the pump mounted on the chassis was doing all the work, truck still ran ok except when really hot it would carry on a bit, but handy to know that if you do have an in tank pump fail the truck will still get you some place where you can fix it.

Curious what you used for fuel line connectors? I should be ok with the OE return line, but not sure what will be needed with the replacement 1990+ donor stainless supply line, as far as available fuel line connectors?

Seconded. Many, many people with dual tanks run it until it bucks then flip the switch and hope to make it until payday and the pumps last just fine.

Should be as easy as a switch to connect both fuel pump power wires together at the switch.

If both pumps were connected and both running at the same time, would that not cause issues in there situation where one tank ran out of gas but the pump is still pumping?

My truck is a 90, and wouldn't need alteration.
The biggest difference between the 89- trucks, and 90+, would be the electrical connection, not the fuel line connection. I'm pretty sure they changed early 90s, but I don't know the year.
The fuel connectors are all the same. 3/8 for pressure and 5/16 for return. But if you need to, you can use high pressure fuel hose to make connections if you use the high pressure clamps along with it.