66 to newer frame swap, California DMV, smog, diesel conversion
 

Hi, new member but have lurked forums for several months and decided to join this fun community.

I've read several threads regarding swapping the 1965 and up cabs to newer chassis and it seems to be a relatively easy swap. From my reading it appears that the cab can bolt up to chassis as new as the 1997 models and even newer without much problems.

Myself, I would like to build a flatbed on a newer f100/150 4x4 longbed platform with a 1966 cab.

The newer IFS chassis such as an 80-91 ish (before auto locking hubs) would be ideal, but am apprehensive about my state's DMV and the requirements to make something like this legal. From what I understand, the new mongrel car is registered based on the year of the frame not the body. In California, 1977 and up vehicles need to be smogged and so registering a 66 cab on a 1980ish frame would seem to flag a smog as well. I assume this means that a swap to a 1976 frame would thus not require a smog?

From what I've read the 76 F150 4x4 comes standard with disc brakes and power steering and a coil spring vs. leafs? This would be a compromise to the TTB/IFS, but worth it if it meant not having to deal with smog etc.

At the same time, I would like to swap an Isuzu diesel motor as well. From what I've read, California does not require a smog for diesels prior to 1998, and others have swapped from gas to diesel in California without much problem.

There is something called a Specially Constructed Vehicle as well? In these instances, the first 500 annual registrants actually have a choice as to whether they register the car according to chassis or body? Not sure if a 1966 cab on a 1988 frame with a Isuzu diesel motor qualifies as a specially constructed vehicle or not.

So there is a lot of homework to be done in terms of the legalities as well as some phone calls, but was wondering if anyone had any input or experience with dealing with California in projects like these? And what some of the best directions might be from those with experience. Are there any advantages to using the smog exempt 1976 frame vs. a newer one?

Also, I've never actually owned a ford truck, and am wondering how much of an improvement the ride is in a IFS 4x4 vs. the coil over? Leaf springs are definitely not an option.

And is the steering column much of an issue when swapping an older 66 cab to a newer frame?

Thnx,
Steve.

The cutoff for smog in ca. is 1975. If you are set on this swap, I would purchase and register a '66 then make the change to the newer chassis thus removing the need for smog. You would be opening up a can of worms trying to do this the "legal" way. A real off road 4x4 has solid axles and not IFS; although, it sounds as though you are more concerned about the ride. My '65 F250 4x2 has a nice ride with the twin I-beam suspension. Drive the '66 as is for awhile, you might like it. Good luck.

Kurt

IF you look at the Bronco forums, you wisee a few of thr guys changing the 80 and new trucks to solid axles. I have both; a 66 F100 4X4 and a 76F250 4X4 with solid axles and a 80 Bronco with the IFS. All ride very good, the F250 is a bit stiff

Thnx Kurt. For some reason I thought 1976 and older vehicles were exempt from CA smog, but may have read that wrong. The main thing I was interested in was the power steering/disc brakes for the frame swap AND of course the 4x4 which isn't so common in these older trucks. My notes from exploring the forums seem to suggest that 1976 was the first year the 4x4 came with disc & power brakes?

I hear ya on just registering the older 1966 cab and keeping the frame swap on the hush to avoid the can of worms. It still would look like a 66 and I have never had a CHP in the 30 years of driving ever check my frame VIN to see if it matched the registration (tho haven't researched how prominent the Vins are for a 1966 cab? Probably not a simple tag in the dash? Hopefully there's some sort of Vin badge on the cab riveted in a permanent and bold location that would prevent an officer from having to further verify vins by checking the frame).

I've never been in any kind of accident and don't plan to, but would hate for some lawyer to take me to the cleaners because my insurance company (who has been taking my $$ for 20+ years) decides my vehicle isn't what says it's supposed to be. ... but what's life without a few risks?

Allen, I seem to have read that the 250 4x4 in 1976 still used the leaf springs? And the f100 used coils. I have read a few of the 1980+ threads in regards to SASwaps from IFS, but those mostly seem to be extreme 4x4 rock crawler guys etc.

The 4x4 would mostly be used for "loose" sand or gravel grades and/or beaches with a small lightweight camper. I still venture to Mexico a lot to surf on some of the remote beaches and that's what the rig would be used primarily for. So a crap load of washboard and arid desert dirt roads. The IFS would be nice, but could go without. For sure the "coils" at the least. I've never driven a car with spring plates up front, but maybe they're not as bad a ride as they sound?

thnx for the feedback
Steve

Welcome to FTE

Fixed it for you.

1966 was the first year F100's have coil spring front suspension. 1959/65's have front leaf springs.

Why mess with the idiotic bureaucrats at the CA DMV? Do what others have suggested, buy a 1966 F100 4WD (1967/75 F100 4WD, 1975 F150 4WD), then register it...then start swapping parts around.

But, 1966 F100 4WD's don't "grow on trees" .. were scarce when new, so...are rare today.

Production figures: Cab & Chassis: 139 / Flareside Pickup: 839 / Styleside Pickup: 4,493

Grand total of 5,471 / Figuring the 10% survival rate for vehicles of this vintage, only about 550 remain, and most are prolly rust buckets by now.

Yes, the 76 F250 is a leaf spring truck, I was just talking solid axle stuff. The 66 F100 4x4 with coils rides good. I put on power streering on mine, but not power brakes or disk brake, maybe someday.

Thnx Allen. I was under impression that the coils were only for the 2wd 65-66 and that the leaf was used up until the mid 70's on both f100 & f250.

Thnx Bill, I have read these numbers in the forums before and probably what prompted the search for frame swap options. This statistic might also be the reason why I thought the older f100's still used leaf springs up front; because the majority of the trucks I've seen advertized as "1965-66 f100 4x4" were probably converted by scabbing in the solid axle?

I assume the numbers increased dramatically for the next model 67-72 4wd as those seem to be more plentiful in the ads.

Steve

Some peeps make the mistake of thinking old trucks are much like new trucks, some also think the same types of peeps bought them new.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Most peeps back then bought trucks for work, not for boulevard cruisers like they do today (see my sig pic for one example). 4WD's were the red headed step-child, very few were sold in comparison to 2WD's.

1967 F100 4WD: Cab & Chassis: 135 / Flareside Pickup: 481 / Styleside Pickup: 3,455.

One reason why these figures are low: The UAW struck FoMoCo for 10 weeks in 1967. No new vehicles or parts were delivered, because the Teamsters backed up the UAW.

Estimates are that FoMoCo lost over 500,000 new vehicle sales during the ongoing strike.

1967 Thunderbirds were terds...were fraught with all sorts of electrical and vacuum problems.

Because Hollywood types had bought these cars from the dealer I was working at (one partner was a long time charactor actor, the other a well known TV pitchman, appeared on the Tonight Show quite a few times, panning his TV commercials "Hi friends...you get more for your car purchasing dollar..." :-X15 ) ...

We had to strip parts off brand new Birds to fix the problems on customers cars. It was a FIASCO!

Ah. I figured the 65 and 66 4wd were probably the same since their 2wd chassis were so similar in regards to coils and Ibeams. Thnx for the info.

Wish there was a more detailed wiki or web site out there that detailed all the various upgrades/changes through the years especially these older trucks?

The Fordification.net/.com sites are a decent reference as is the Fordwiki on the F-Series in general, but all of these sites could benefit from a little more detailed information.

I tried doing some digging around but couldn't seem to easily find these:
How much did the weight of the cab increase from 66 to the newer 67 model?
Did the f250 2wd 65/66 have coils? Edit: just saw a great picture of a 65 f250 restore in another thread w/ coils and Ibeam.

I did find in the fordification documents a sales brochure for the 1967 trucks that had really detailed information regarding curb weights and general dimensions. Looks like the f250 is about 350 #'s heavier than the f100. so that answered that question.

The 1964/72 Ford Truck Parts Catalog is available on a CD from hipoparts.com for 22 bucks.

This is the same catalog version Fordification is using. Their catalog has Fordification printed on the diagonal on every page, but it's the same enchilada.

faxonautolit.com has original owners/shop manuals, sales/accessory brochures, wiring/vacuum diagrams, salesmans fact books, other paper goods that silverfish love to feast on.

1965 and later F250 2WD's have Twin-I-Beam coil spring front suspension.

1959/79 F250 4WD's have front leaf springs. The number of individual leafs (spring pac) varies on High Boys, non High Boys have only 2 individual leafs.

1959/76 F250 4WD, 1977 F250 4WD before serial number Y20,001 have a divorced transfer case, are called "High Boys" by enthusiasts.

1977 F250 4WD's from serial number Y20,001, 1978/79 F250 4WD's have a married transfer case, so...are not High Boys.

1961/80 all series of trucks and Econoline, 1966/80 Bronco: The serial number is the last 6 digits of the 11 digit VIN

Is a 72 camper special body on a 2010 e450 chassis
 

Is a smog check required on a 72 ford truck body on a e450 chassis the reason I want to use the e chassis is for a much better load rating and be able to keep the 72 camperspecial body I don't like the newer bodys.so the idea of buying a bigger ugly truck doesnt apply to me.thankyou.the e chassis is a closer fit than the f chassis .the 7500 gvw of my 72 camperspecial is a joke I want 11000 to 13000 lbs load rating.I hope my questions are clear enough.

E 450 chassis with 72 f250 camper special body
 

Is this considered a new thread .I want to upgrade the gvw of my 72 camperspecial from 7500 to14000 lbs .if I use a 2003 e450 chassis.do I have to register the 72 camperspecial as a 2003 .and will dmv title the 72 as a 2003.the reason I want to use the e chassis is I want to have the rear axle narrow ed so the dual rear axle will fit in the 72 rear fenders I don't want to cut up the 72 body .I want to use 245 70 19.5 s to handle the 14000 lb.max weight..and increase the towing capacity .I understand that california will call it special construction. According to sb 100.any In formation .would help .I also want much better brakes .california says that all of the parts from the donor vehicle will have to be used.including the engine and all nessary smog equipment.is any of this In formation correct.any help would be appreciated. Thank you.