v10 in a e350
 

was gonna order 2012 350 ext cargo van with v-10-4:10s, would the engine be a significant improvement with the added weight of it being an ext.model, over my 250 with 5.4-3.73 -custom tuned, x-piped custom 2.25" ss dual exhaust, ud pullies, intake?thks phil

I believe in "no replacement for displacement"...
But what are you going to be using the van for?

use
 

hvac company owner,also to pull my 7x14 mx trailer on weekends~4500lbs, so did the tune on your v-10 really wake it up?

Dbasso is about to say "no comparison". I agree, no comparison. The v10 is much stronger, only gets 3-4 less mpg. There is no replacement for displacement. i have the 5.4 and sure wish i had the v10 but mine is a daily driver, so no v10 feeding for me.

V10 vs V8:
25% more displacement, H.P. and Torque.

25% worse fuel economy.

Equal fuel economy when towing, but far more capable.

V10's like RPMs and make peak torque at something like 4500, do you might consider 4.56's.

First, you can't get 4.56 ratio. Second, that's going to get you well down around 6-9 MPG. Why would you want to do that? My '02 V10 extended E350 pulled my 9100 pound trainer just fine. It had a 3.73 axle. That's plenty of axle.

If you don't plan to race with a loaded van I would recommend the 5.4L to save gas money. It's not as fast, but the extended van is not much heavier than a standard length. When running a business saving gas money can be important.

HAHA, my 5.4 gets bad enough, no way I'd get a V-10, if you have money running out of your ears to pay for increased gas usage buy a diesel Chevy van, that's right, I said GM! The V-10's have a 5 speed trans, giving them the lower first gear, same final drive ratio, the lowest you'd want is 3.73's on one.
BTW my van is a 15 passenger 99 E-350 with over 1000 pounds of equipment to make it wheelchair accessible, Flowmaster 40 exhaust, an SCT, and intake modification. I live in Tennessee and spent a few years running back and fourth across the mountains hauling trailers, one being a heavy car trailer with a 96 convertible Mustang on it, in amazement it was doing 70 with enough power to go faster up a steep incline after a rest stop.
I believe the vacuum leak that's messing with my heat/AC is further ruining my mileage but at 150,000 miles who can complain about repairs when I've had nothing major.

thks guys,appreciate input

Yes, woke it up big time. Especially when towing.

But I tow a 7500lb TT frequently...

For your use I would think the 5.4 is fine.

As for MPGs in a V10, read: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ort-trips.html

I've never had an issue of lacking power
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3...0005sq9.th.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7...g201tf6.th.jpg

?
 

my van is fully loaded,near 9k lbs:-:-X22

Just curious, do you mean 3500lb of gear IN the van or is part of that load on a trailer? I think our vans are about 5500-6000lb unloaded.

The scale said my 15 passenger weighed 8000 pounds with my stereo and handicap conversion, plus me sitting in the front seat.
I pulled my loaded 22' pontoon, 14' dual axle trailer with 2 4 wheelers and gear, 200 miles to east TN to ride on regular basis, the boat was on it 4 times a week, I had to pull it up a drainage ditch at home to get it out too. I've never needed more power than the 99 5.4 provided, never had trouble towing anything the speedlimit on the interstate, even on Rockwood Mountain.

yes that is weight of van-my other 10 vans are 01-2011 e350s with 5.4's,my 04 with 350k is getting tired from being run hard,figured since i'm the owner, id treat myself to a v10:-X22

Go for it! Sure wish I had one!

Treat yourself to power and poor mileage, when gas his $4 you'll really enjoy it then.

working 80 plus hrs every week ,i think i can afford the gas, have zero debt

life is good, my friend, carry on and enjoy the v10! But try to take a day off now and then!

I worked the hours years ago, it's good to stop and take a break, before life passes you by.
I'd rather have a boosted smaller engine, I want to see the Ecoboost in a van next.

Absolutely---it is your money so do as you want----no harm at all! You're going into this knowing what to expect and if you settle for the 5.4 you'll always think "what if.........". With a selection of other 5.4's to drive when/if MPG's is an issue there's not much of a down side here.

Of course you could always get a Smart Car, park it inside as a spare! :)

I too say go for it, work as much as you need to at the moment and if buying something you want that others say is impractical or ill advised---so what? This is America dammit and when are we known to make all the right decisions time after time? :D Were I about to order a new E350 the V10 would be my first option.

Of course if you take delivery we all want to see photos, driving impressions before AND after the 5 Star Tuning too--------ya know, everything!!

FORD 2011 E-Series brochure specs beg to differ:

5.4 L V8 is listed at 255HP @ 4500 & 350 lb-ft @ 2500

6.8 L V10 is listed at 305 HP @ 4250 & 420 lb-ft @ 3250

While there might be no replacement for displacement in some cases, there's no substitute for math.

The 25.9% "more displacement" yields:

255 HP + 20% "more H.P." = 306 HP

350 lb-ft + 20% "more Torque" = 420 lb-ft

Comparing fuel economy isn't so easily calculated. However claims of 15-18 MPG from 5.4L are fairly common & the V10 often seems to have trouble delivering 10-12 MPG. Some might see a V10 getting 33% "worse fuel economy".

IMO there are replacements for displacement. FORD's EcoBoost is a good example. Also see the 4 cylinder turbocharged Cummins diesel in UPS trucks & 5 cylinder Mercedes turbo diesel in Sprinter.

IMO we're only a hiccup away from $5 gas. Sorry Ms. Bachman, don't see $2 gas in our future. The costs of gas can easily exceed the cost of the vehicle. The ability to charge up a mountain occasionally, towing a heavy load at high speed isn't much of a priority. I'm willing to shift down & climb steep grades slower in order to achieve higher MPG under all conditions.

Reserve the V10 for hauling the heaviest loads rated in FORD's 15,000-22,000 lb GCWR range. The 5.4 handles the 9,600-14,050 lb GCWR range.

I was not writing a paper on the subject and was speaking in general terms.

As far as Sprinters are concerned, used prices local to me for 12 passenger Econolines and Sprinters, the price premium of the Sprinter and cost of regular services far exceed any fuel economy advantage it may have over the Econoline. At $4 gas and $4.20 Diesel, the brake even point will come at 175-200,000 miles, not factoring interest or depreciation.

But I'm sure C.W. will find a problem with those numbers as well.

FORD was guilty of "writing a paper on the subject" & I was speaking in FORD's specific terms. You "find a problem" w/my math?

You're so "sure" someone "will find a problem with those numbers" but I'm not "sure". My guess is you once again did not subject your "general terms" to the math?

So let's see what we "will find" on the basis of "200,000 miles" & "$4 gas and $4.20 Diesel"-your "general terms"-so everyone else can be "sure"? Plug in an E350 V10 heavy hauler getting 10 MPG & a Sprinter getting 25 MPG for the helluvit. Consider it the worst case scenario if you like.

200K @ 10 MPG is 20,000 gal @ $4 = $80,000 for gas

200K @ 25 MPG is 8,000 gal @ $4.20 = $33,600 for diesel

In "general terms" a Sprinter could save $46,400 in fuel costs!

Readers can judge if a V10, costing $46,400 more in fuel to go the same 200K, will be "a problem" or not. To me its just a mathematical fact. You're welcome to try the complexities of estimating an overall "brake even point".

Of course, I was not suggesting a Sprinter (or UPS truck) as an alternative to V10 E-350. My comments were in reply to the idea; there's no replacement for displacement. My point was that smaller motors can haul heavy loads, albeit at slower speeds up steep grades. Unless you really need a V10 it's mostly an expensive ego boost. That macho Gas Guzzling feeling of being able to blast up any hill w/o ever slowing down.

With so many threats to stable fuel prices, near certainty costs will rise & worries about sharp increases, and/or supply disruptions, that $46,400 savings might easily end up being quite shy. Think about it. That's 12,000 fewer gallons to go 200,000 miles!

Besides, if your normal loads happen to be big & bulky the larger cargo volume of a van like Sprinter means you can often haul in 2 loads what requires 3 in an Econoline.

All I'm saying is; imagine something like a Sprinter 5 cyl turbo diesel in an Econoline. IMO the 5.4L is powerful enough for most applications. Lately there's been a glut of used V10's being unloaded. FORD should develop/adopt a small efficient turbo diesel 30 MPG drive train for E-Series.

Sorry, not a V10 fan. Headed in opposite direction. Latest interest is in UMC AeroMate aluminum/fiberglass step van based on V6 Dodge Caravan drivetrain.

I love the thought of power, but drop to reality when filling the tank, and I have a 5.4, would rather have a 4.6, but they are gutless in comparison, no towing, no way I'd love the V10 when filling it.
In a still shaky economy, I think I'd not act like I'm rich.

Funny way of putting it. Of course "when filling it" E-Series w/4.6, 5.4 or 6.8 all have the same 33 gallon tank.

IMO "no way I'd love the" sucking sound a V10 makes as 30 gallons of gas vanishes in ~300 miles!

However imagine transplanting the 5 cylinder turbo diesel drivetrain from a Sprinter. Such an E-Series van could easily achieve over 30 MPG. Think I'd love driving ~900 miles on a tank more than I'd "love the thought of power".

yall forget one major thing.
the V10 E350 can tow, I'd like to see a sprinter tow 7500lbs while carrying a motorcycle and several hundred pounds as I do very frequently.

to each his own, but the V10 E350 is serving me Very well.

You're not alone in that as shown just in this thread. Despite all the fears of $5/gal gas supply is sufficient to keep up with demand especially when it hits $4/gal, at least here in my area. Since there is signficant drop off of consumption when it reaches that point prices seem to be dictated more by the market more than anything else.

Interesting thread so far!

I for one recall citing FORD's 2011 ratings: "Reserve the V10 for hauling the heaviest loads rated in FORD's 15,000-22,000 lb GCWR range. The 5.4 handles the 9,600-14,050 lb GCWR range."

That gives maximum loaded trailer ratings of 6500 lb for 5.4 extended E350 & an impressive maximum of 10,000 lb for V10 extended E350.

Did "yall forget"?

The '06 Sprinter ratings limited maximum towing to 5000 lb. However the maximum payload rating was 5774 lb. Didn't dig for '11 specs, but know Sprinter has been upgraded.

However "yall forget one major thing" - I brought up Sprinter's 5 cyl turbo diesel motor in response to the comment 'there's no replacement for displacement'.

IMO Mercedes seems to have done more with 2.7L displacement than FORD does with 6.8L in liter to liter comparison.

If you insist upon making comparisons to the Sprinter van "yall forget one (more) major thing". Namely comparing cargo volumes. Did "yall forget" to compare interior heights? Never seen people standing in a Sprinter?

Try on - I'd like to see an econoline carry 473 cu ft of cargo - for size.

FORD specs list 273.8 cu ft for E-Series maximum cargo volume.

Yes, couldn't agree more with "to each his own". A V10 is serving you "Very well" & the motor has been around since '97. You want a van to tow 5 tons. I want a van to get 30 MPG.

IMO there's a market for a high fuel efficiency, durable, small turbo diesel, E-Series van that FORD has ignored.

"Interesting" point. Would seem like you're OK w/consumption being dictated by prices. You do realize that it's NOT "Despite all the fears" but hard cold economics that forces people off the road?

I'm surprised that Obama's dramatic increase in CAFE standards didn't get more media attention. It's almost as if it didn't happen. A major factor in the "significant drop off in consumption" in the US is the result of Americans buying smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles.

The gas supply is somewhat like water from a well, except for oil being a finite/nonrenewable resource. You can pump it out fast or slow. The well will run dry sooner or later. The rate of pumping is dictated by prices.

As China, India, Indonesia, etc all crank up consumption prices will ultimately go up. The high cost of fuel restricts consumption at the same time. IMO Asia will come to dictate the price of fuel.

When there are interuptions in gas supply prices jump up. Serious interuptions could easily result in shortages. We still import 70% of the fuel we burn. Some might believe the ME is more stable after our decade of war/occupation/pacification. Others see it as a short fused tinder box that's no friend of the West.

Did "yall forget one major thing"? I remember paying $3 to fill up & driving during OPEC's Oil Crisis. Clearly remember Gas Rationing. There were closed gas stations, limits on how much you could buy, Odd/Even rationing, ridiculously long lines & of course, Sticker Shock. Recall seeing the 1st $1 gas. The Crisis was a blessing to makers of small efficient imports.

IMO the collapse of US auto industry was the result of continuing to build Gas Guzzlers despite decades of conspicuous handwriting on the wall. Only by being contractually forced to build smaller, more efficient vehicles, that are in demand, did the big 3 survive.

Rumors persist about E-Series extinction. In many ways the V10 is a Dodo breathing its last gasp. The upcoming FORD large/commercial van replacement (Transit?) will be more like Sprinter & UPS trucks.

yeah yeah the sprinter is better in every way possible. My bad.
You have made very valid points and the Econoline is no longer a worthy vehicle and all of them should be scrapped and never be mentioned again.

Again, sorry for trying to say that my van works well for me.
Have a good, no great day driving your Sprinter while the sand creeps in to your crack.

You really want to be quoted from a FORD Truck Enthusiasts forum, 1968-Present Full Size Vans section, saying?

Whatever "creeps in to your crack" seems to have made you irrational.

Your assumptions are foolish, except for maybe "the sand". If only b/c here in Florida "the sand" tends to get everywhere.

Just got off the phone inquiring about an ad for an '03 Club Wagon E150 Chateau. Unfortunately it was a 5.4, not a 4.6 & got scratched.

Don't own a Sprinter to drive & don't want, need, or shop for a van w/473 cu ft of cargo space, no matter how much I might like the 5 cyl turbo diesel. Similarly I don't want, need, or shop for an E350, extended, or V10 Econoline.

Have driven Econolines since early 70's. Was sad to see so many Econolines "scrapped" in the Cash For Clunkers program. You'd never hear me even hint what Bbasso said: "Econoline is no longer a worthy vehicle and all of them should be scrapped and never be mentioned again". My comments about FORD adopting/developing a small, fuel efficient, turbo diesel drive train for Econoline were 180 degrees the opposite - a way Econoline might persist & better fulfill the ideal "to each his own".

Many believed FORD screwed up when the dropped the 7.3 PS diesel. Conversely, few complained when FORD dropped the much maligned 4.2 V6. However it may be more of a mystery why FORD dumped the V6. There were apparently far more 4.2 V6's sold than 7.3 PS diesel's & 6.8 V10's combined.

IMO a small, fuel efficient, durable, turbo diesel Econoline could make a very popular commercial/fleet van. If the big box Sprinter achieved 25-30 MPG claimed, an Econoline should pop the 30 MPG barrier w/ease.

Maybe imagining an Econoline w/range over 1000 miles per tank is what "creeps in to" Bbasso's "crack"? Must sting having to stop & cough up $100 every 300 miles?

Do you not understand that he is being sarcastic dude? Dbasso likes his van, you like the ecoboost. Everybody would love more power and more mpg and more space and more money and more freedom and..................... What's the point of carrying on with this? Can we move on?

I'll sit here and wait for you to quote me, then misinterpret my plainly worded statement, so you can go off on another tangent about how everyone is wrong but you.

No kidding? "Dbasso....is being sarcastic dude"? "What's the point"?

Good luck trying to reconcile Bbasso's "to each his own" with your "EVERYBODY would love more power" etc, etc. Or are you a "sarcastic dude"?

I'm already on record as one who "would love (LESS) power" by rejecting both V10 & 5.4 in favor of the 4.6 motor, OR better yet, a small, durable, fuel efficient, turbo diesel option. Also rejected "more space" - "plainly" don't "love" extended Econolines, or Sprinter's 473 cu ft.

It seems obvious "Everybody" did not "love more power" enough to buy it. I'd thought the I-6 4.9L & V6 4.2L motors had been most common?

Instead of having to "sit (t)here and wait" on your Off Topic troll, you could've posted On Topic, or Moved On.

See? Just what I thought you would do.

LOL..........

Welcome to the club 86Scotty!

The Sprinter is gutless, the engine is too small for the use, 2.7 liters is not very large, I think it could stand to be bigger.

Never seen someone use so many quotation marks in my life!

Its increasingly obvious SOME people just have to have the last word and go to extremes to have it. Many times before people have simply left a thread, bored to death with the brow beating and snarky quotation-filled replies that attempt to show who knows what? We've gone from a benign thread to spouting facts that don't even apply to the OP's original question-----just another user asking for general advice on a potential purchase.

I still say its the man's money to spend on what he likes for whatever reason he likes. We'll all be driving Dodo's for a long long time to come, some of our E Vans lasting 20 or 30 years and still in good condition.

Yeah fuel efficiency is great and should be encouraged but sometimes big and/or powerful vehicles are necessary, maybe wanted and if we try to negate over consumption with conversation maybe we come to a "zero sum" on an average personal usage?

What was this topic originally about anyway, before all the off topic snarkiness began? :D :D :D