Having a hard time being a Ford Truck Enthusiast
 

OK guys, a few years back I bought a 2007 F-350 with the 6.0 PSD. The thing wasn't a bad truck itself, but the motor was absolute junk. It didn't get great mileage, made only decent power and blew injectors every 10K miles like clockwork. I traded it in for a 2008 Dodge 3500 CTD, the Dodge does everything better than the Ford could ever think of, better mileage, WAY more useable power, and no problems to date (60K miles). So I figured oh well, its no secret the PSD sucks so I'll just cut my losses on that one.

At the time of the trade for the '08 3500 I also had a '08 Ford F-250 V10 auto which was quite possibly one of the best trucks I have ever owned. Unfortunately I was involved in an accident that left the truck totaled. I then went with an '08 Chevy 2500 with the 6.0 auto. Didnt mind that the truck didnt have the power of the '08 F-250 but just didnt like it overall, seemed like a truck for old people so I traded it off (against my gut instinct) for an '06 Ford F-250 5.4 auto. The F-250 with the 5.4 was one of the worst trucks I've ever driven, one of the most gutless vehicles I've ever experienced, front end was crap at 30K miles, just an overall bad truck.

My dilemma is this-I've traded the F-250 for an '09 Dodge 2500 5.7 auto which I am very fond of. So in a nut shell I am what I consider to be a Ford guy who drives 3 Dodges. Not so much because I want to but because the Ford diesels are still crap, the 5.4 is crap and the one motor I do like out of their lineup is being discontinued for a high winding V8 (like we need another one of them on the market). Is Ford trying to dispoint their customers? Why cant they be competitive in the market?

Keep in mind before replying that I am one of the few people in this forum that use trucks for their intended purpose. I dont live in the city, I dont haul my kids to soccer games in my trucks, I dont use them as a grocery wagon, I pull and haul heavy loads with them so I KNOW what they are capable of and what makes them "good".

Sell them all and get the new 6.7L Diesel from Ford. Read this article. The 2011 Ford Superduty has been used by FPL (Florida Power & Light) since Sept 2009.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/03...y-perform.html


Everyone knows not to get the F250 with the 5.4L. What were you thinking? Also, it probably had 3.73 gears. Should have got the 4.30. It seems to me that you don't know how to pick a truck. I would have kept the '08 V10. I don't know why you went to Chevy, but that's you're personal preference.

What do I know, right? Afterall, I own a 10 year old truck, make that 11.

I completely agree with BigDaddy6969.Almost all of us just drive truck like he said,but a little % used it a hard.You say 6.7 Powerstroke,but what we know about this engine?Like I said before,If this 6.7 would be a CRAP! again,Ford will be die for me forever (just my point).Why (I repeat it again) is spend SO MUCH TIME AND MONEY to the NEW ENGINE when we have a years proven CUMMINS ENGINE !?:confused: I don't know !!! For me,I really like Ford trucks,but this new 2011 looks for me a little ugly,a little,especially a Head Lamp and a Huge Plastic Grill.To much plastics,less metal,in my opinion new Dodge Ram looks way better than a new Ford Superduty.I hope this new 6.7 will be a beast,great and proven engine!

I'm not paying an extra 11G's for an unproven motor. Im sorry man but this PSD thing is a broken record. The 6.0 was going to be the best thing ever, then the 6.4 and now you are telling me the 6.7 will be. I'm done with PSD's.

I had a pretty lengthy discussion on here with a guy who's opinion I respect. I thought if I had the 5.4 and chipped it I could drive a Ford and have adequate power, boy was I wrong.

Keep in mind my friend that I have owned more trucks that you have ever been in, and have had some damn good ones in my day. In the last 18 months I have owned 8 trucks all '06 and newer and all HD applications. If you want an informed first hand opinion just ask me.

You need to learn to read dude, I totaled it out. Had I not been in that accident I would still be driving it, absolutely LOVED it.

I read a shootout on here where the '08 Chevy 2500's with the 6.0 auto performed right along with the Ford V10's. Considering V10's are VERY hard to come by where I'm from (IDK why) I decided it would be a good alternative. It was a bad truck, just not made for work. The shootout must have been bias toward the Chevy because the '08 2500 6.0 auto 4X4 I had wouldnt even start to work as hard as my '08 V10.

Had a truck a lot like yours, except mine was an '03 and I liked the hell out of it, so you apparently know you drive a good truck... other than that IDK.

I love my 06 CTD, but I use it on long drives, and the shape of the seat and the shape of my backside do not seem to agree.

So, I will be looking for something new soon. I just have to get something a little more comfortable when I am in the saddle 12 hours at a time.

Well, having looked at your signature and seeing the three trucks you own, I would own all three of them right now. I know that brand loyalty is a big thing among most, but I am not one of those guys. I am a TRUCK guy, it doesnt matter to me what is on the hood as long as it does what I want it to. If you really want to be a Ford guy, maybe try to go back a few years to the 7.3 PSD. Unless you had one of those too. Dont feel bad about owning a dodge, or three. I have an 89 F250, and 86 Chevy 1 ton, which by the way, you havent driven a gutless wonder until you have driven a 6.2 diesel, and I also own a 2010 Tundra. The only one I am missing is a dodge, and I will probably be owning one of them soon, as I am looking for a CTD. So, in summary, enjoy your dodge trucks Mr. Ford guy.

There is a big difference between a Brand Loyalty and Blind Loyalty.Be honest guys,Ford has in pass so much troubles and problems.I'm looking now for a 1994-2002 Dodge Ram,2500 or 3500,I like how it looks plus I got a Cummins.Ford in my list too,but Dodge is first.

Thats the generation dodge that I am after, I am sure you know it already but if you can stand to, get one with a straight drive. I personally wouldnt want one with anything else. I would ideally like to have a 98-98 1/2 cause they have the 12 valve, but unlike 94-97 they have four doors!!

Yeah,a 12 valve Cummins is nice ! :-jammin

Sounds to me like you are making logical decisions about your vehicles based on a matrix of needed capability, performance, and reliability/dependability.

Brand loyalty is for lemmings, and you are a proud citizen of the state of South Dakota if I remember correctly (in fact I'll bet we live in the same county); not many lemmings out here.

I tried to like the Ford F-150 back in 2007 when I was shopping for my first truck, and the 5.4L Ford V8 is one of the worst motors I have ever driven in a modern vehicle. As far as I could tell it converts gasoline into noise, and not much else. It must really suck it hard in a 3/4 ton truck that tips the scales 1000+lbs heavier. So I went with a Toyota Tundra (no unintended acceleration) and it has been great, easily the best vehicle I have ever owned to date. Great motor and transmission combo, complete overkill for a 1/2 ton.

Anyhow, I still like Ford products since they didn't take any damn bailouts from Uncle Sam and I wouldn't rule them out. The new 6.2L gas V8 looks promising but the peak torque comes on a little high, but it could be a pretty flat curve up to that point with 95% of it available 1K RPM before peak. We'll have to see some dyno plots to know for sure, one thing we can probably count on is stout construction and good reliability from the new gas V8. Sure it gives up some low end torque to the old V10, but there will be one more gear to play with and there is more horsepower.

As for the new 6.7L turbodiesel, that is a wait and see for many. International/Navistar has nothing to do with this new engine, and judging by how well Navistar diesels have been designed and built lately (not just in Ford pickups) that is a good thing. Ford already had a lot of in house diesel expertise from their European operations, and by most any account Ford's European diesels are excellent both in power delivery and reliability. With any luck that trend will now reveal itself on our side of the pond with the new Powerstroke, I hope it does for Ford's sake. That said I would wait a year or two before I bought one to see what issues arise, especially with the new emissions gear and the urea injection. On a related note Ford is set to hold the line on the option pricing for the new engine, so it should still be around $7K. A lot of money I know, but at least it didn't go up.

Evidently you didn't read the link I provided. I however, I am not saying buy the damn 6.7 diesel, I was joking.

B.S. aside I was messing you.



If you had a conversation with someone, I wonder how you got persuaded.



This comment here just made you look like a damn fool. Quit while you're ahead. You no squat. Do I need to add all the damn trucks I have driven in my signature. Don't be a fool. :-banghead



Boo hoo. You wrote so damn much I overlooked it.



Perhaps this can give you a broader perspective.

PickupTruck.Com - Part 1: 2007 PickupTruck.com Heavy Duty Shootout



I will not say my truck is best on the planet because it aint. I aint brand loyal. I have driven them all and found this truck to fits my needs.

If it is any consolation to you, Ford Trucks weigh 1000 #'s more than both Chevy/Ram. I'm sure you knew that, right?

What manufacturer doesn't have problems. The word is spelled "past" not "pass".

Yeah I bet you were... you did a bang up job of getting your sarcasm across.

The guy is somebody I've talked to on truck matters for a long time and he has never led me astray before. I guess he was bound to miss sooner or later.

The fact that I have driven a lot of trucks, used the hell out of a lot of trucks, and told you about it makes me look like a fool? You drive a truck thats 11 years old... I guess that makes you an expert on all the newer HD trucks that are out right now? I've owned them, but you reading about them makes you more knowledgeable than me? Who looks like a fool?

Part of having a discussion is knowing what the other person is saying before you comment, its true the world over. If you have a hard time reading I suggest you have somebody read it too you. You missed one of the biggest points of my whole post and yet still shelled out your opinion like its your job, too bad most of it didnt matter.

Wow, you can post a link... you want a medal?

I never said anything about your truck being the best on the planet, or anything about you being brand loyal. I doubt you've "driven them all" or even driven more than just a few. I am sure your truck does fit your needs, driving up and down the streets on your way to soccer practices and the grocery store. I almost guarantee you are the kind of guy that buys trucks he doesnt need and keeps the price way over inflated, thanks a lot for that one.

Furthermore, if you want to start criticizing peoples spelling around here I highly suggest you dont use the word (or lack of) "aint". Also, you arent bringing anything to this conversation, you are just being an ******* and I would appreciate it if you didnt post anymore in this thread.

P.S. There is more than a few words in this post, maybe you should have somebody read it to you a few times to make sure you dont miss anymore important parts of what I'm saying.

What manufacturer?Dodge and Chevy have less problems than Ford (I'm talking about engine).The guy who start this thread I completely understand and his words can prove not just me,a lot of us (I repeat it again) just don't need a truck because we used it just like a car,every day moving.....a$$.I know a lot of guys who just disappointed of Ford Trucks (engine) and trade it to Dodge trucks.Not because Dodge is better,but more reliable than Ford.

P.S. Sorry for my English.Oh,and thank you to correct me "mister teacher".

All of them from A-Z.

You're welcome :-drink

keep in mind the new 6.7 is NOT a PSD like any previous engine..

its only a PSD in name. every single peice of the new motor is FORD, not from Navistar..

We will see,but now we know about this engine nothing.

I can honestly say that none of the 3 are really crappy when it comes to reliability. All have their strengths and weaknesses. the 5.4 and 6.8l ford engines are very reliable and the diffs are very stout yet their ball joints suck. GM motors and trans are good, but the axles leave some to be desired as I have seen quite a few with howling rear ends. Dodge really seems to build really good engines gas or the cummins. the trannys dont fail as much as people on here would lead you to believe, but the truck itself doesnt seem to hold up quite as well as fords except those dang ford ball joints.

[quote=92f150I6;8598528] - "but the truck itself doesnt seem to hold up quite as well as fords..."




What you mean?Something wrong with Dodge to hold up quite as well as Ford?

V10 -

You criticize spelling in Post #14 (pass/past), yet you have trouble with no/know in Post #12. Good job!

Steve

Okay, all the petty bickering and personal attacks need to stop right now.

Have to agree with the crappy ball joints on the SDs. They are small and have no way to grease them. My old man got a little over 65k out of the original ball joints, I'm hoping mine make it that long.

I think Fords new 6.2l gasser with the 6 speed should be a decent improvement in performance over the 5.4l but not the 6.8l. I hope Dodge puts the larger 6.4l gasser in their HD trucks to force Ford to add more stroke to the 6.2l.

I would wait and see on Fords new 6.7l, it has crazy power I just suspect it will have issues. The 6.7l is a brand new engine built in brand new plant. Hopefully its problem free but it has the potential to make the 6.0l PSD look good.

As has already been pointed out, the new 6.7 is a Ford engine and will share nothing with the previous IH/Navistar Powerstrokes. The 6.0 and all its problems along with the bad name it helped to give to Ford's diesel trucks was what pretty much killed Ford's long relationship with IH/Navistar. I too hope it proves to be a good engine for Ford, but I'd certainly wait and see before plunking down any money on one. I prefer not to be the guinea pig and buy the first of a new model of something. That's for the guys with the deep pockets.

And no manufacturer is without its share of problems. A buddy of mine had (up until very recently) an '06 Dodge 3500 with a Cummins. He does a lot of hauling for his business, mostly pulling a two-car trailer coming in at around 10K loaded. He lost the tranny at 80K miles (automatic, of course) and by 130K the truck had pretty much had it. Even the mighty Cummins is vulnerable to trouble, and the final straw for him was when it developed a knock and he found metal particles in the oil. The turbo started to go at about the same time, possibly due to the metal particles from the bottom end getting into the turbo bearings. He was meticulous about maintenance on the truck and had it dealer serviced regularly.

He's now looking at replacing it with a Ford.

If he is only pulling around 10K, tell him to get 6.8 with 4.10's. It will pull it easily and he wont have to worry about shelling out a lot of money for an underperforming diesel motor than will cause him a lot of headaches.

My brother owns a farm, and he works his Super Duty pretty hard, pulling a heavy trailer with equipment on it, sometimes in rough muddy fields. He didn't much like his .. 04?(I could be off a year or two) 6.0L F350 dually, as he had to bring it back to the dealer several times. (motor and/or computer issues) He and I went to Ford and special ordered his current 2007 6.0L F350 Dually. (I think that's the final year of 6.0L production?) He hasn't had much of a problem with the newer truck, so they must have improved some things. Fuel mileage still kind of sucks, but at least it hasn't had to go back to Ford yet. This doesn't mean he won't have issues with it, though, and from what I've read, a lot of people are unhappy with the newer diesels. I'm NOT a fan of the 6.0 motors!! I feel that IH screwed up Ford's reputation quite a bit with the newer motors. Ford feels that way too, obviously.. And companies like Destroked and Fordcummins are making a fortune selling kits to put Cummins motors in place of 6.0L motors, because apparently a lot of guys are getting pissed about the 6.0L issues, but they still like the rest of the Ford truck.
I hope to God this new in-house diesel really kicks *ss, because Ford needs a good, solid motor in their work trucks, and I trust they can come up with a nice product on their own, without IH. There will be nobody to blame now but themselves if they screw this up. But like I said, I have faith in Ford. And just think; of the big 3, Ford is the only one now with a diesel motor designed and built in-house.. I think that says a lot about the capability of Ford Motor Company.

Now I can't say from 1st had experience, but I know a couple people who purchased the 5.7L in the 2500 Ram, and they said the truck was gutless. No, not as bad as the 5.4L in the F250, but not much better either. Then again, part of that gutless feeling could be running at the elevations we do here in CO.

And who ever sold you on getting the 5.4L in an F250 was wrong. The 5.4L is adequate in my F150, but does not belong in a 3/4 or 1 ton truck.

Yeah, that's why I'm surprised he opted for a F250 with 5.4L. It's pretty common knowledge on this forum. I'm not sure anyone on this site would recommend that combo.

Only question I have here is, the 6.7L Cummins in the Ram was only a year into production when you purchased your '08 Ram. So you were willing to pay extra for the unproven 6.7L Cummins? And of course I don't have first hand experience, but from the diesel forums I frequented, the 6.7L had a rough break in period the first two or so years of production. Many Ram owners were/are wanting the old 5.9L back.

Sorry to hear you were misled. This to me has been common knowledge for years.

From everything I've seen, the 6.4L wasn't designed for truck applications and more than likely will never be seen under the hood of a Ram.

I know this is a Ford sponsored event and all, but hopefully this comparison against a 2500 Ram 6.7L and Silverado 6.6L will provide some reassurance on the new 2011 PSD 6.7L Scorpion. Especially on fuel efficiency, towing control and passing ability with trailer in tow. Of course we still wouldn't know longevity and reliability of this motor which sounds like a major concern of yours.

The 2011 Ford Super Duty Trucks - Coming Spring 2010 | The Official Site of Ford Super Duty Trucks

They all have their strengths and weaknesses. I'm the only member in my family who buys Ford trucks and I've loved them all and had no problems with any of them. My Dad had a mid 90s, In thin.....the last "boxy" Dodge 3500 with one of the first Cummins engines. I think he go around 300K out of that thing pulling a big 5th wheel before the tranny finally crapped out. My uncle bought the very ex*****ive loaded dually when the newer body style came out, also with the Cummins and it was a POS from day one. My dad then traded the truck with the crapped out tranny for a early 2000s Dodge 2500 V-10. That thing was awesome. Unfortunately, he only had it for a short time before he passed and we sold it, so I don't know how the durability was.

The 5.7 I have now runs like a striped ass ape, I am VERY happy with the power output. It gets decent mileage as well (even though I dont really care) at 80 mph its gets right around 12, at 65 it gets 15 which is WAY better than what I got with the 6.8 (still like the V10 better though) and better than the 5.4, mostly because the 5.4 was having to work like hell just to get up to speed.

At the time I had my '08 Dodge, my '99 Dodge and an '08 Chevy that I didnt like at all. I use my '08 for all the really heavy pulling I do, the '99 for all the grunt work and the short trip loads. I was looking for something that wasnt going to have to pull much of a heavy load and would be sufficient for long trips (I do a lot of driving).

I wanted back in a Ford, couldnt find a decent V10 in the area (radius of 400 miles or so), so after talking with a member of these boards that I consult on things I dont know much about I decided that if I went ahead and bought the '06 F250 with the 5.4 and put a good chip in it I would be getting adequate power, and mileage... didn't happen.


I went ahead with the 6.7 for two reasons #1 Cummins has by FAR the best reputation as far as the diesel market is concerned and #2 its and I6, and anybody that does as much pulling as I do can tell you that the inline design hooked up to a 6 speed tranny is the way to go. Also, I believe my CTD costed me an extra 6100 to get vs the 11G's the new PSD is going to cost.

Yeah I always heard to not get the 5.4 in the F250 but I figured I could solve its problems with add ons, I guess if it was that easy Ford would just do it themselves.

Cool! Do you have the new 5.7L they recently dropped in the Ram for '09, or is it the older model with the 345hp/375lb-ft? Either way, glad you like it and it works as needed. I've just heard conflicting opinions, no personal experience.

Again, sorry you got some bad info. Maybe back in the '99-'03 body style, when they had the LD F250, which came with the F150 body, the 5.4L would have worked fine. But not on the SD platform.

Thanks for the info. I was just curious as to why you opted for the new Cummins but are kind of unwilling to look at the new PSD (in name only). Sounds logical. And yeah, a 6K mark up compared to 11K, is a hefty price for a lesser diesel. The I6 design is nice, wish Ford had opted for that route when building the 6.7L Scorpion. Even though it was a gasser and wasn't the quickest truck, I always loved my 300cid/4.9L I6 in my '81 F150.

And sorry you ended up blowing your money on that truck, I'd be pissed.

My cousin actually just ended up trading his '07 F150 Lariat Screw 5.4L for an '08 F250 Crew Lariat/FX4 6.8L He's owned 4 F150s in recent years and said making the move up to the F250 and 6.8L was the best move he could ever make. He considered the 6.4L PSD, but with the problems they've had, the additional cost and not being sure if he'd get his money back, he opted for the V10.

Yeah man the motor I have is supposed to put out 390hp and I'm thinking they are pretty much right on with it. I'm really happy with it thus far.


I had a '99 Ford F-150 with a 5.4 auto in it some years back and while it wasnt a great truck it wasnt terrible, the 5.4 sounded good strait piped but it wouldn't run with Dodge 360's of the same year, but it would keep pace with the GM 5.3's. It was only a 2v model 5.4 so I guess I was hoping that somehow the 3rd valve in my '06 F250 was going to be a godsend.

Like I said I knew the new CTD was an I6 and the option wasnt too terrible expensive. The Cummins name was the biggest issue for me in buying the new CTD, they have a great reputation and have built great products for years vs the FoMoCo which (to my knowledge) dont have as much experience in the diesel building for 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. If the Scorpion turns out to be a great diesel then odds are I will end up buying one a couple years down the road.

^^this^^ I heard ya there buddy... I owned a '94 Ford F-150 with the 4.9 I6 and it was the best truck I've ever had, run it too 300K without an issue and i bet the average MPH on it was somewhere in the 75-80 range. I beat the hell out of that truck and it just would die, thinking about buying another one just like it if I can find one I like.

I cant say enough about the 6.8 V10, 2v or 3v as I have owned both and loved both. I am really really pissed off that Ford is scrapping it for a high winding V8, why change a good product? I dont get it, its like they are trying to piss me off.

Ford for years was bound by whatever engine navistar provided for them. They had to take this engine, and supply their own programming, hardware (radiators, pumps,etc.). In many instances, this was the entire source of the problems. Ford's "pieces" didnt work with Navistars engine. Take for instance the radiators in the 6.4, the problem is the massive flow of the engine rushing into the radiator when the 2 thermostats open. The 6.7 has 4 thermostats. The two main ones open roughly 30 degrees apart to lessen the thermal "shock". Ford has done their homework on this one.

I have to say if I was to buy a new truck I don't know which brand I would choose. As for a gas rig I would have to pick the Dodge 5.7. I not sure how 390 HP/400ft/lbs of torque can be gutless. As for a diesel I don't like any of them but might try a Duramax post 05 Duramax diesels aren't having much trouble from what I hear. I haven't heard anything good about the new, bigger Cummins in Dodge. The new Ford scares me with the track record of Ford trucks with diesels since the 7.3.
So after reading all this I'm keeping my 86 F250 4x4 460, C-6.
Craig

Maybe im a little confused, last time i checked the V10 2V power numbers (310hp@4250, 425ftlbs @ 3250) aren't much above a 5.4 3v (300hp@5000,365ftlbs@3750). If it was chiped im sure your even a bit closer.
and doubtful you would see a huge difference.


Ill agree with you that the 5.4l was not the best choice for the super duty platform but many use them in different applications and have no complaints. If a grocery getter or not. I use mine for everyday use. Work commuter and weekend hauler. I don't tow but have loaded it up several times without disapointment. I realize you use yours for heavy duty use daily and the 5.4 is out of your leauge for your application but that doesn't mean it's not applicable for anybody.
To be honest im trying to figure out why you are on FTE to begin with but i guess i shouldn't loose any sleep trying to figure it out.
I think you should go rant about your dislikes on the DTE forums about the Fords. I think you will get more positive reactions there. Ohh and i doubt Ford is trying to Piss "you" off. Good ridens.

Just my .02 worth of rant

The difference is the the extra 60lb-ft, and the fact it is reached 500rpms lower. Heck, you even get 10hp more at 750rpms lower as well. For a truck towing application, this can make a considerable amount of difference. Put a weighted trailer behind you and you'll surely enjoy and appreciate having those higher figures being reach at lower rpms. Plus a F250/350 with the 6.8L may also have more aggressive gearing, providing a little more towing power down low.

The guy has a gripe, as we all do about one thing or another. Doesn't mean he's right/wrong, as it doesn't mean you're right/wrong. He's simply providing his frustration is all.

Thanks Justin,
Yeah i just figured a 5.4l with a custom tune would pretty much take up the 10hp/60ftlbs even if having to rev a bit higher.

Yeah i know, just figured id match the rant as a "Proud" Ford owner going on 30 years with NO complaints.

I wish I had a way to put a John Deere 9.0L in a Ford pickup, now that would be a beast.

I tell everyone I talk to that ask me why I bought my truck and tell them it was the only vehicle on the market that offered what I wanted. I bought a 08 Dodge Ram Megacab 4x4, only I got the gas Hemi engine instead of the CTD. I don't tow and haul alot so the need for diesel isn't there. Had Ford or Chevy offered a full size truck with the kind of interior space I have in my Dodge, I'd probably be driving one of them instead. I initially was looking at the 4door F150 when a friend showed me his Megacab. I'm 6'3", 270lbs and this is the 1st vehicle I don't have to place the seat all the way back and tilt the steering up to sit comfortably in.
I own a Bronco, passed down through the family, and I will never trade it for anything. But, it's still not as comfortable as my Ram. My first truck was a 92 Dodge Dakota. When I was looking for a truck, I didn't need a full size truck but I couldn't fit comfortably into a Ranger or S10. Dodge had just recently come out with the Dakota and it fit perfect. They had a club cab and it was the best of both worlds. Not as big as a full size but not nearly as small as the little toy trucks. 290+K miles later, my father still drives it occasionally. His '67 F100 that his father bought new sits in the back yard waiting on a restoration.

I'm not a brand loyalist, I buy what fits my needs and desires. Whoever has it when I want it, gets my money.