C-6 or AOD
 

Good afternoon,
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I’ve been spending hours these past couple of weeks researching this site via the “search” engine and just when I think I have an answer I find another thread that only confuses me more… thus my question.
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I have a 1949 F-1 with the original 41 Dana rear end with 3.92 gears. I have a 302 that I bought along with a C-6 tranny. I plan on rebuilding the 302 with very slight upgrades in power. I plan on using the truck to cruise on weekends around town and maybe hop on the highway once in a great while. I will not towing, hauling etc. I was leaning on using the C-6 with a 9” I had picked up at a very good price (free). Unfortunately, the 9” is 65” wide thus it is not a good fit. After reviewing this site I see no reason why I can’t use the 41 Dana? Additionally, I began to lean towards not using the C-6 but looking for an AOD instead. To make a long story longer… I recently discussed this with a co-worker of my wife who has built hot rods etc in the past. He thought the AOD was junk and the C-6 would work fine with the Dana. Any thoughts, comments, advice etc would be greatly appreciated. I am far from having this project complete but I would like to have a plan in place. Bottom line, I’m concerned the 302 and C-6 would not be a good fit with the Dana where as the AOD would?
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Brian

I can not comment on the Ford AOD. I will say that the Dana 41 in my 49 ran many years including towing with a 56 Buick nailhead running thru it without any issues. A mild 302 would not challenge the Dana any more than the Buick. I also towed quite a bit with it without issue (including flat towing a Model A across the country). With a 3.92 rear ratio, I think that you will be much happier with an overdrive. Personnally I am setting up my 49 with a 383 stroker motor with a 700R4 which is a GM overdrive. Somone should come along and provide input on an AOD.

the aod is a good trans choice if you are adding big hp then some mods are needed the advantage that the aod has over the c6 is weight the aod is lighter and has a lower reciprocating mass therefore less hp robbing if your intention is hiway cruising buy the aod but please remember there are 2 typs aod and aode aode has elctronically operated overdrive post 88 aod pre 88 i think if anyone has any more accurate or current info i would be interested to learn how to set up the cv cable before start up if this is not set correctly thats it for your trany .......just my 2 cents woody

C-6 or AOD
 

thanks guys,

I had read to look for an AOD between 1988 and 1992 and to stay away from AODE.

As far as use, I see myself driving the truck around town on city streets and want some speed on the green light but on the rare occasion I take her on the hwy I don't want to be doing 50 mph at 4000 rpms... the C-6 seems masive and a robber of HP in my application.

C6: Cheap, strong, reliable, takes the most HP to operate of the "big 3" 3 speed automatics.

AOD: Troublesome in early models. Requires beef up for high HP use. Not cheap in beefed form.

Lots of parts and support are available for both.

I would go with the AOD with that ratio. With a C6, C4, FMX or any 1:1 trans, you will turn 2854 + TC slip at 65 mph with 30 inch tires. With 28s, it goes to 3058. Not terrible if you are talking short trips, but run 10, 20 or 100 miles like that and you'll be looking for another gear.

AOD info. Note the most important thing is to get an AOD from an '88-'93 V8 or truck. NOT an early model.

Now this outfit suggest going with an AODE or 4R70W if you are starting from scratch. The logic, as they explain it, is the later trans plus controller is a cheaper way to go than rebuilding the AOD. You probably don't need to beef the AOD like a drag racer, so I'd shop for both and decide when you can see prices etc.

AODE and 4R70W Performance Products - Baumann Electronic Controls

Other outfits that have info, spec and sell the parts in their beefed transmissions:

AOD Transmission from PATC, AOD Transmissions

TCI - Ford AOD, AODE and 4R70W

www.CKPerformance.com

Note the AOD beef up includes, amongst other things, some AODE and 4R70W parts, to over-simplify the example.

It's a TV cable, the Throttle Valve.

Instructions here:

TCI® - Instruction Sheet Database

drop down the right side search for "Ford TV Cable Instructions"

I am sure there are several opinions here and most all of them will be valid. That being said I have a AOD in a 70's Mustang with a mild 302 and a 3:89 rear gear. The car performs well in both in town or on the highway. The AOD comes with a lock up converter which the C-6 does not. A non lock up converter can be purchased from most suppliers like jegs or summit but if your not using the truck on the track you will gain more MPG with the lock up converter, and turn less RPM's on the highway.

Next. I have a olds motored 1955 ford f-100 with a 200-4r GM trans attached to a 10 bolt 3:73 rear gear, which is very similar to your
set- up. My truck performs fantastic, in my opinion. I just returned from Billetproof Florida 2010 and was able to cruise the turnpike at 80 mph + without any issues. dont forget the final ratio of the AOD in overdrive is .67 so that will turn your 3:92 to a 2:62 ratio. I would not even consider using a non overdrive trans for your combo.

Now I have a question for you are you sure you have a C6 ? the reason I ask is they are not easy to come by and alot of people confuse them with the FMX which is a whole other can of soup.

Rick

With a C6 (and it's 1:1 3rd gear ratio) you will need 33 inch back tires and a 9" gear ratio of 2.80 to cruise at 65 comfortably - 2350 rpm.

That is the set up I currently have (except its a 9 3/8 rear).

The C6 is very large and heavy (installation and suspension considerations) - but it's bullet proof.

You will have slightly less reliability but substantially more driving options with the AOD.

If you're going to run the original rear end, which should hold up fine by the way as long as it's currently in good shape, I'd go with the AOD. The C6 would be better if you were changing the rear end to a taller gear ratio and/or using a higher displacement/torque engine.

Must be a Chevy guy. lol

Brian, reading through the posts, I think you're on the right track. The C6, while very strong, is a horsepower robber, and takes a lot from a 302. Especially a stock one. You'll lose about a third of your HP by the time it gets to the rear wheels. The AOD is a much better choice if staying with the Dana rear, and is plenty reliable, since it's had 30 years of development on it.

If you're looking for a 9" to swap, find one from an F-100 up to '72. They will be the same width as your original, with the spring perches even in the correct place. It's a near bolt in operation.

I recently bought a donor vehicle that has a 302 and a AOD. I mainly got it for the engine, trans, and rear axle. I wanted the AOD so I could drive where ever I wanted comfortably and it be cost efficient. I have contemplated on using the stock rear axle (dana 44) thats on the truck now but figured I should just put the newer one on it out of the donor because its newer, easy to find parts for it, and its stronger than the original dana.

Side note: I have read that the later stock AOD's can handle quite a bit of horse power in stock form (up to 400).

There is an advantage in using an over-drive automatic. You'll also have control of the lock-up torque converter. It's nice to have low RPM for high speed cruising!

I am doing something similar but I'm using an adapter so I can use my rebuilt 292.....It's all going in my 55 F-600

Below is an E4OD and will be operated by a Baumann Controller.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...189463.520.390
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...189462.520.390

Thanks to all of you for your input. I will plan for the AOD then. And, LMAO regarding the Chevy guy comment :-drink

Brian

Sorry but I just don’t know this? .......When and where was the C6 used with a 302?

Hi Brian

I have a `57 T-Bird 312 cid in a `56 F-100. I recently rebuilt the engine
and put a `91 Lincoln AOD behind it. I have a 9in rear with 3:05 gears.
First I`m past the burn out stage in my life (with the `56,) Truth be told
I am burned out. Anyway, It has performed fantastically for me.
At 70 mph on freeway with the 3:05 rear the engine turns Approx
1850 - 1900 rpm. Also I have plenty of poop at the stoplights, so I am
very happy with the AOD.
Hope this is helpful.
Brian, I`m in the Sacramento area so if you need any more info PM me.
Be happy to help.

Gary

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Why wont this bump to top?

Can't answer your directly as to the "when and where" but I can tell you that the C6 was used with many SBF engines over the years, I believe that most were in trucks/vans. I have a couple of them out in the garage, they are easy to discern from the BBF models just by looking at the bellhousing.

I am not totaly sure of the exact years but my first one came from a 71 mustang with a 351-c 4v, Did you know that those models also came with a looser converter from the factory ? I think ford quoted them as being 2800 rpm stall .

My current small block c6 came from a 80's era 1 ton van with a 351 W 2v.

Ask the number dummy he will know the year span http://images.ford-trucks.com/forums...ons/icon14.gif

Rick

I'd think the Mustang had an FMX, not a C6. Cast iron case?

If you get any '88-up AOD with a cable throttle valve setup (NOT the earlier type with a mechanical linkage) you'll be past the era where the OD servo was wimpy, and cheap mods can be made if a little more strength is needed. One from a cop car, Mustang GT, or Lincoln would have lots of upgrades already.

The importance of proper TV cable adjustment cannot be over emphasized -- best to tow it to a shop and have them adjust it with pressure gauges connected.

Well, I am no expert but I bought the motor paired with the tranny last year from a tow company that was going under for $200.00. the motor and tranny were pulled from what I was told a Ford van. The motor is from 79 but I don't recall what numbers are on the tranny and it is all wrapped up and raining outside so I won't be going out to check anytime soon.

Brian

Hi Ross! You probably don't remember but you sent me some very helpful info back in 2007... (which I still refer to on a regular basis) I now realize these are long term projects but it has been fun to date. Anway, I had first read to look for an 88 up to a 92 or 93 AOD. But, just today I read that for a carb 302 I would need a pre 86?? Any insight or did I read wrong? I printed the art up but left it at the office so I can't check tonight.

Regards,

Brian

Thanks Gary,

It indeed helps. I checked out your pics and love the motor!! Were into fly fishing as well.

Brian

I have 84 AOD behind my 302 and the original 53 Dana 3.92, 30" tires. Works great in all situations, love it.

I think you can get an adapter for the cable TV for any popular carb, I don't know what other problem there would be?

Nope - I know for sure 71 mustangs with 4v cleveland motors came with small block C6 trans and a factory stall converter. I do agree that the FMX has a cast iorn center section and is not a good choice for any performance mods

Rick

Okay, so I re-read the article and it does say to look for a pre 1986 tranny for carb vehicles. However, towards the end of the art it says that cars using Holley or Edelbrock replacement carburetors a linkage corrector plate is available to allow a TV linkage or cable assembly to be used. You Ross are on the money. Speaking of money... I just found an AOD out of a 92 Lincoln about 15 minutes from me and I talked the guy down to $30.00!! either I am getting a great deal or this thing is a pile of you know what! I figure I will pay the 30 to find out.

LOL, how can you lose?! Just make sure it uses a cable and is not an E-AOD. There is plenty of info on the web to tell you how to identify what "strength" of OD servo it has (a 92 should already have the best one) and how to rebuild or at least check it out.

It occured to me there might be a difference in speedo drives, electronic/mechanical, older vs newer. If it's like most other Ford trannies, you should be able to pop off the electronic unit and put an older mech drive plug in.

AOD numbers
 

Okay guys, sorry to be a pest but I picked up a used AOD today for $30.00! I was told it came from a 92 Lincoln. I need some help with the numbers on it. I'm certain it is an AOD based on the 14 bolt pan an the shape of the pan. Additionally, AOD and Metric and the Ford logo are on the pan. the tag was missing from the tranny so I couldn't find numbers there. I did find a stamped JY750611 on the top towards the tail shaft. I also found on the drivers lower side RF-E9DP-7006-AA. There is a similar number on the tail shaft but the lighting was getting poor and I'm not 100% sure of the sequence. Anyways, I hoping one of you (or numbers guy) can decipher the codes and let me know exactly what I have purchased?

Oh and Ross, there was no cable attached but I can see where it would be and also there is a neutral safety switch mounted on the drives side with I think 4 or 5 pins? I hope that is correct.

thanks in advance,

You are good if the 92 Lincoln was a MK VII. Otherwise the motor would have been a 4.6 or 3.8. The correct tranny will have a two bolt starter.

The "JY" number is most likely the partial VIN from the donor vehicle. The other numbers are engineering numbers from the parts they are cast on, which wouldn't necessarily id the trans itself, if those parts could be used on other applications.

Heck, that was easy to figure out. The "J" represents the year in the 17 digit vehicle idenificaion number seq. In this case "J" is 1988. so, I now know it is not a 92 as reported (although I suppose it could have came from a 92) but this is a 1988 AOD which is still considered a decent one to have for my use.

Brian

The E9DP-7006-AA is good. Its the correct transmission housing you want.

When you go for a rebuild, keep in mind that the AODE internals are the prefered parts to make for a good transmission. So if any clutch baskets or shafts need to be replaced, keep your eyes open for a junk AODE for a donor. They an be had just as cheap.

Brian

I know you are going the AOD route, but FWIW, I have two 351W powered trucks, one an 88 F150 with a C6.
The other, an 83 F250 with the factory AOD - this truck was originally 302 powered.

I bought the F250 half-expecting the trans to let go anytime (163,500 miles then), but with a newly rebuilt engine, no rust, & one family since 1987, I thought it was worth it.

Well, I had the AOD serviced (it had never been rebuilt), & a shift kit fitted & pretty much waited for it to die - that was nearly two years ago & it's still going strong.
I'm reasonably gentle on it, & I think the previous owner was too, but 27 years in a heavier truck & a lot of those behind a 351 (302 was as big as the factory fitted them with), shows that they could give good service.

The F250 is carbed & gives better mileage than the fuel-injected F150, but not the same performance - a lot heavier though.
Personally I prefer manual transmissions & will replace the AOD with one when it finally does fail but for daily driving or lighter work, my experience has been that the AOD is fine. The line pressure (TV adjustment) is critical though.

I think the C6 is still king for heavy work - you just have to feed it though :-X10

thanks guys, I never thought I would generate so much feedback and I do grealy appreciate all your input as it has really helped.

Brian

Julie,

What's the formula that you use to calculate RPM's at MPH? I'm thinking of putting taller gears in mine, and I'd like to run a few different scenarios?

-DV

This should work for you;

mph x gear ratio . divided by . tire diameter x 3 = rpm's (x1000)


example;

60 mph x 3.25 gears / 29" tires x 3 = 195/87 = 2241

At the top of the page, click on the 'Articles/Specs' drop menu, then on Automotive Calculators.
There is a MPH/RPM calculator there with tire size & axle ratio options on it.

At the top of the page, click on the 'Articles/Specs' drop menu, then on Automotive Calculators.
There is a MPH/RPM calculator there with tire size & gear ratio options on it.

For the gear ratio entry on it, multiply your axle ratio x your gear ratio - eg if you have a 3rd gear ratio of 1.4 & a 3.54 axle, the gear ratio entry on the calculator (for 3rd gear) will be 4.956.
A 1:1 4th gear would just be 3.54

Thanks Julie! Since my tire size is fixed at 27", and I want to use 65MPH for my "what if" scenarios, all I have to do is multiply the gear ration by 800 to give the the RPM's at 65MPH. It doesn't get much simpler than that...

It does in fact look like 2.80 gears are what I need.

-DV