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1950 F4: 7.3 diesel, chassis swap, Model A hauler
Hello all,
After lurking for quite some time I finally broke down and decided to join the party. This build was meant to be a somewhat restored farm truck to be used as a prop in my wedding in March 2017; but one thing led to another, and instead of just getting the F4 back on the road and running, I decided to turn it into more of a "usable" truck with a few modernized pieces. Unfortunately it will not be ready for the wedding, but luckily the fiance is ok with it (she has enough on her plate to keep her busy). This is an ongoing project, shooting for this summer to have it running and driving. I have built several vehicles since I began driving- I am by no means a bodywork aficionado, but I'm trying. This truck is not an OE restoration with all period-correct parts, metal finished panels, no nicks or dings...I want to use it as a truck (maybe not daily, but more than the occasional nice weekend). Thought about adding air suspension to aid in loading my '29 Model A (whenever I get to working on that) but for now I'm just sticking to stock suspension to get it on the road. So I bought the F4 in Oct 2012. It was used on a farm not too far from me. From what I have collected it had the flathead v8 with Mercury 4" crank and still ran good (don't worry I didn't junk it- I am putting this in my Model A with a t5 behind it). It became essentially yard art for a few years until I pulled the trigger on another investment (engagement) and that lit a fire under me to start the teardown and begin getting it fixed up. Here it is when I brought it home: https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...afbcfe1412.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...70f4bf79ad.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...eecbdde9cc.jpg Widowmaker Poster: https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...3b4dcde754.jpg Beginning teardown: https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...15b9ae0759.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...d507dfb307.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...b030d7ae62.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...11391274c8.jpg |
Cab stripdown
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...78681bc1c8.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...e5cede1f52.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...f0b803617c.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...d07c2773fe.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...1cf7b67fb7.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...fdc2a52ec0.jpg |
Few bodywork progress pics
Overall the cab, doors, hood were in pretty decent shape. Front end/fenders...well, different story (haven't gotten around to messing with patching them yet).
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...9740af549c.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...f6e3469ed9.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...913ac250ee.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...879c8658fb.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...705a827a5a.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...1c6793ea5c.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...63f205800c.jpg |
Chassis swap
So I wanted to make the flatbed a little longer, not quite a ramp truck length but almost like a small car hauler. Why the chassis swap? I went back and forth between the ideas of keeping the original chassis, outfit it with newer axles, brakes, wheels, drivetrain or throw the body onto a chassis that was already rigged up with that.
I went with option B...use an updated chassis, and mock the old cab and front end onto it. I found a chassis for a P30 stepvan, running Rockwell axles (front beam, rear dually) huge disc brakes on all four corners, massive leaf springs, 19.5 wheels, and a stout frame. Here is the donor: https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...8e1255412f.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...a2731943e0.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...9cbf83df51.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...2514dd3896.jpg |
Great progress on good rust free steel. I'm envious.
The wheels pictured are NOT widow makers. Save them. Stu |
Was it easy? Eh, not so much. Would I do it again? Maybe. I am still in the process of getting some things worked out (I'll post those down the line) but the biggest was dealing with the front axle width.
Our brethren on the GM side (Stovebolts) use the P30 chassis for their swaps, and have documented the sectioning of the front axle to get it closer to the older setup width. I ended up sectioning 10" from the front axle. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...76f1e8f90c.jpg Engine crossmember and mount mods: https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...2ca5bf8a5d.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...37fb494581.jpg |
Originally Posted by truckdog62563
(Post 16915624)
Great progress on good rust free steel. I'm envious.
The wheels pictured are NOT widow makers. Save them. Stu https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...90be236844.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...e5961819c9.jpg |
Powerplant
No offense to those who have done it, but for some reason I have always been a Ford in a Ford kind of guy. If I could have found an E350 bus chassis or the like, with a diesel motor, similar to what some of the guys here have done- that would have been ideal.
But, I always seem to take the harder route. Luckily I found a drivetrain not too far. I wanted to try out the diesel path just because I wanted something with grunt, something that could get decent mileage (ha) and lastly- something different and cool. And I wanted a crashbox because it just felt more old school truck-ish to have gears to change. Enter the 97 F350 Powerstroke with the 5 speed ZF5 trans: https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...30932022f1.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...46646f05a3.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...b240dc877c.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...7d3e285684.jpg |
Cab epoxy primed, set on new chassis.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...6319e01959.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...be777ae695.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...f41455e4eb.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...8a3ac8a6aa.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...08b5afcf46.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...50e8926981.jpg |
Originally Posted by ThatGuyFromGates
(Post 16915639)
Thanks Stu. Here is a shot of the rear rim- these WMs?
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...90be236844.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...e5961819c9.jpg |
Off topic, here is the Model A, and my '49 sled:
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...b0e9fcdc6d.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...fe1096c430.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...d69390efb6.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...ceee8db936.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...d69bfdb4b0.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...fb4d94fea3.jpg |
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...f94b9261d1.jpg
You have good taste in trucks! Your project looks great! |
You have good taste in trucks! Your project looks great![/QUOTE]
I saved your image a long time ago- if my truck wasn't already red I totally wanted to do a color like this! Looks good man, and I really like the red flatbed frame. |
Good to see another F4 (in spirit) being saved and put back on the road. IMO, they are the right size for a usable truck. Take care of that :oval script bed. Sometimes good fenders show up for the larger trucks. An add in the FS WTB section may save a lot of metal work.
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Speaking of the bed, is that bed from an earlier model. It does not have the locking latch in the rear to the right of the script. When did Ford put the stake lock in their beds?
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Originally Posted by raytasch
(Post 16915989)
Good to see another F4 (in spirit) being saved and put back on the road. IMO, they are the right size for a usable truck. Take care of that :oval script bed. Sometimes good fenders show up for the larger trucks. An add in the FS WTB section may save a lot of metal work.
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Any progress? This is a great build.
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4 Attachment(s)
We stuck with the Ford frame because every thing fits like fenders
and everything else. I see your engine and body pic. sorry to say you need to cut a square hole in the fire wall for the exhaust pipe or the to move body forward or sheet metal will be way off. Nothing worse then front wheels not in the middle of fender wheel wells. Our donner was a van like yours but seems a little bigger than a C30. I don't know but l think our's may be a P450 ish. I kept the front axle and machined the donnor spindles so I have standard king pins and bushings. Rear axle bolted right up to the Ford, so disk brakes all around. Next bought the master and power brake that bolts right into the origional 48-52 Had to machine a new drag link (time consuming left & right threads) used the donnor complete exhaust system. New radiator donnor way to wide. Loakar shifter for the AOD tranny. Hydraulic pump where the A/C pump was for the body. Big big problem we want origional gauges so we zip tied the donnor gauge cluster cause there is a gazilion wires & computors but it runs all gauges work wait to start light and all. Although this is F7 or F8 its the much the same as F4 dimensions. sam |
Bigjob, what did you doo for the engine electricals? Did you use the Power Stroke system or find a stand alone system?
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We used everything from the van powerstroke had to, there is just too much junk
to fool with. With thought I will attempt putting gauges into the origional cluster. The speedometer is even electric so is the speed 0 on the tranny that rules out the cable. Also seems the the gauge cluster goes in some computor thats past my brain. I'm old school don't believe in computors for diesel hogwash. Anyways just take your van harness everything and its plug and play. I just remembered the eng/ tranny/ all electrical came from a plane ole F350. It will take major surgury to fit the cluster in this year dash. Oh yea fuel tank lines all from the F350 outside frame mounted. The only real money was new radiator water pump alternator starter and make sure you put a new fuel pump and vaccuam pump real bitch to do with engine in there and the nickle and dime stuff like hoses etc. but its all new. So its way better when engine is on the floor. Our front axle build was done so the wheels didn't stick out with the late axle. So we got a ford axle with GM spindles fits like a glove "with some machining". By the way I just noticed a 51-52 speedometer you got in there huh slick...sam |
Originally Posted by big job
(Post 17720212)
We used everything from the van powerstroke had to, there is just too much junk
to fool with. With thought I will attempt putting gauges into the origional cluster. The speedometer is even electric so is the speed 0 on the tranny that rules out the cable. Also seems the the gauge cluster goes in some computor thats past my brain. I'm old school don't believe in computors for diesel hogwash. Anyways just take your van harness everything and its plug and play. I just remembered the eng/ tranny/ all electrical came from a plane ole F350. It will take major surgury to fit the cluster in this year dash. Oh yea fuel tank lines all from the F350 outside frame mounted. The only real money was new radiator water pump alternator starter and make sure you put a new fuel pump and vaccuam pump real bitch to do with engine in there and the nickle and dime stuff like hoses etc. but its all new. So its way better when engine is on the floor. Our front axle build was done so the wheels didn't stick out with the late axle. So we got a ford axle with GM spindles fits like a glove "with some machining". By the way I just noticed a 51-52 speedometer you got in there huh slick...sam If you used the powerstroke rear then you can connect you vss in your rear diff and your spedo would work again. |
Originally Posted by sendit
(Post 17719996)
Any progress? This is a great build.
I have the primary wiring pretty much figured out and I am able to turn the motor over with key power now. Haven't plumbed any fuel to it just yet though. I have a couple of tanks that were originally on the P30 behind the rear axle that I could probably get away with using. Also though about going the original behind-the-seat tank, to keep it that way. Not sure if there are any implications with diesel being behind the seat vice the gasoline. Kinda like the original look of the filler tube/cap. I'll figure that out though. The next hurdle will be the pedal assembly, with the clutch slave cylinder, and the clearances with steering. Hoping to get back into the thick of the F4 this summer! |
Originally Posted by big job
(Post 17720027)
We stuck with the Ford frame because every thing fits like fenders
and everything else. I see your engine and body pic. sorry to say you need to cut a square hole in the fire wall for the exhaust pipe or the to move body forward or sheet metal will be way off. Nothing worse then front wheels not in the middle of fender wheel wells. Our donner was a van like yours but seems a little bigger than a C30. I don't know but l think our's may be a P450 ish. I kept the front axle and machined the donnor spindles so I have standard king pins and bushings. Rear axle bolted right up to the Ford, so disk brakes all around. Next bought the master and power brake that bolts right into the origional 48-52 Had to machine a new drag link (time consuming left & right threads) used the donnor complete exhaust system. New radiator donnor way to wide. Loakar shifter for the AOD tranny. Hydraulic pump where the A/C pump was for the body. Big big problem we want origional gauges so we zip tied the donnor gauge cluster cause there is a gazilion wires & computors but it runs all gauges work wait to start light and all. Although this is F7 or F8 its the much the same as F4 dimensions. sam I actually fit a 3" downpipe off the turbo down by the firewall and underneath. It is pretty close to the firewall and really close to the pinch underneath...that I will probably massage a bit. I did have to cut a small notch on the opposite side for the crossover pipe clearance. |
Here is a shot of the downpipe, and battery box:
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...9fe1df6909.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...9da96f0607.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...e6cc2e2cd8.jpg |
And the reason for the "holdup" on the F4...Dad's 57 2 door HT 210. Even though it's a Bowtie, I'll let it slide. Hoping to get it ready for him to drive around soon and enjoy!
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...28c6133111.jpg |
If your behind seat tank is good I vote using that to keep the filler neck in the original spot. Using as much as original function I always think is great! I'm doing a 1997 7.3 swap into a 1960 f350 and I'm planning on keeping the tank behind the seat. If you ever drive your truck in cold conditions keeping the diesel in the cab will keep it warmer and prevent gelling. Maybe lol who knows actually but that's just my thoughts.
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https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...d928cc31dd.jpg
This is the fuel return line I added to my tank.
Originally Posted by ThatGuyFromGates
(Post 17721073)
Also though about going the original behind-the-seat tank, to keep it that way. Not sure if there are any implications with diesel being behind the seat vice the gasoline. Kinda like the original look of the filler tube/cap. I'll figure that out though. Mark |
Originally Posted by 49fordv8f4
(Post 17721322)
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...d928cc31dd.jpg
This is the fuel return line I added to my tank. I'm using the original type behind the seat tank on my F4 diesel build. You will have to add a fuel return line for the diesel. Great looking build you have going there!:-X22:-X22 I considered using the 6.9 turbo diesel from my '85 Ford Club Wagon, but decided to go with the Mercedes. I didn't want to have to modify my cab for the exhaust coming off of the turbo and down over the bellhousing. Mark |
The return line is the only modification I made to the tank. The fitting that I soldered into the top, IIRC is a 5/16 ferrule to 1/4 or 3/8 NPT adapter fitting. I reamed the fitting thru the size of the tube and the tube goes thru the fitting into the tank to within about an inch from the bottom of the tank. The ferrule seals the tube and holds it in place. The hose you see in the photo is temporary, I have stainless braid Aeroquip hose on it now. On the supply fitting at the bottom of the tank, I have an ell and more stainless Aeroquip hose to a ball valve. The ball valve is screwed into the top of a fuel filter so I can turn off the fuel from the tank to change or drain the filter.
Mark |
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...b02c516e69.jpg
The fuel return line thru the bottom of the cab and thru the frame to the engine. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...99f1979c4d.jpg The hose coming out of the bottom of the tank to the fuel filter. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...b3d3c2feae.jpg This is the fuel filter mounted behind the cab on the inside of the subframe for the dump bed. Here are a couple more photos. Mark |
Thanks Mark, looks good. I like the idea of having the shutoff valve there at the filter for servicing needs. I'm going to look into finding a stock tank and doing something along these lines. I assume the stock sender works ok with diesel? Not sure if it should matter, it's still measuring the liquid level, but I'm no rocket surgeon.
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Really clean! I also really like the idea of the valve for fuel filter changes, I'm gonna borrow that idea on my swap!
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