Stuck Oil filter removal
 

Morning guys!

Problem! Stuck oil filter! My main question is can we damage the engine block in our efforts to unscrew this thing? Can we damage the port or anything? Or should we just crank it off with all our strength? We HAD an oil leak that led us down the path of over tightening our oil filter (rookie mistake). Now we can't get the effing thing off. My son has been working on it (I'm out of town--getting back today). We've already taken the step of puncturing it and putting a rod thru it to get extra torque. With two of us I'm thinking it'll give, but I don't want to damage anything in the process. Any insight? We have a 351W, 1970ish by the way.

Thanks! Tyler

Tyler... you're good to go. Crank it off. It's only a rubber gasket and can't hurt anything as long as you only rotate counter clockwise and nothing else.

Mark

Thanks Mark!! T

If you havent destroyed the filter already a strap wrench works great for getting them removed. Sometimes putting a bar through the filter just tears it up .
I am sure you already know but putting a film of oil on the gasket during install keeps the filter from getting stuck.

You can crank on it, but drptop is right that they tend to just tear. If it were mine - and knowing what I know now - get a strap wrench.

Use a strap wrench as low as you can get it on the filter. After filter is off the surface the gasket seats against must be flat and smooth any highs or lows will produce a leak. Do not try to pry on the filter around the gasket seal area as this can cause a indention or uneven seal point. Remember any remnants of the old gasket will cause a leak.

I've taken off many a stuck oil filter by driving a large screwdriver thru it and turning. Clean the block filter contact surface with a clean rag, inspect surface for residue/old gasket, wipe a generous coat of oil on the new filter's gasket (stick your index finger up to second knuckle in the bucket of drained oil, wipe onto face of new gasket like applying library paste in elementary school i.e. fully covered to near dripping), spin it on until it just makes contact, tighten 1/4 turn more by hand. If it leaks then, take it off and look for the problem: old gasket or residue on block sealing surface, unoiled new gasket rolled up from overtightening, cracked or damaged filter boss if separate piece bolted to block, no gasket, wrong/defective filter. No properly installed oil filter (see above) should ever leak or need extra tightening. If having trouble due to difficult filter location/work space, consider installing remote filter relocation kit. I like the filter location change procedure on my Solstice engine. Filter housing is at rear top of engine, changed from above. Unscrew cap (housing and fiter element drains into pan when engine is shut off), lift out used element, drop in new element, screw cap back on. Done! On the Miata engine filter was screw on mounted horizontally in center of block above front crossmember. It was also changed from above. Because of tight space it was difficult to turn it, catch it without spilling oil all over crossmember. Trick there was to put toddler size disposable diaper on crossmember below filter, unscrew and drop filter into diaper. Wrap diaper around filter and lift out without getting a drop of oil on car or hands. :D

Buy a good quality all metal oil filter strap wrench, for loosening filter. test it in the store on a filter to verify it is the right size for your filter. You can improve one by gluing a strip of thin innertube rubber to inside of band with contact cement. They also sell cup type wrench attachments that fit over end of filter and go on a breaker bar or ratchet, they work well if you have room or can't maneuver a strap wrench over filter. They come in several sizes, be sure to get the one that fits snugly on the filter you use.

I have been using Dow Corning DC-4 compound to lube the gasket on oil filters for years. I haven't had to do the old "drive a big screwdriver through the filter trick" since I started using the DC-4. I picked up on that practice when working as an aircraft mechanic. It is recommended by most of the filter manufacturers for aircraft use, so I figured it would be OK for my cars and trucks as well. It is also a good lube on O-rings.

Dan

Thanks for the input guys! My son bought a strap wrench last night but had no success. I don't know if it was a good one or not. Maybe a combination of him on one levering device and me on another will do it. But I'm nervous about breaking the filter boss. That'd really suck! When we first installed the filter we lubed it but my son says we took it off recently and reinstalled it. I don't remember that (they say the memory is the first thing to go--can't remember the second thing) but I doubt we re lubed it. We probably removed the filter when we were installing the pressure sender. Idk. Anyway, so I shouldn't be too concerned about torquing the filter boss right off the block huh? Just go for it?
T

If you have room you might be able to get a large screwdriver or punch, down near the seam at the bottom of the filter where it screws onto the engine and hammer it in a unscrewing direction as you apply pressure with the strap wrench. Sometimes the jarring will help loosen the gasket.
If that makes any sense to you. The seam is stronger than the filter shell.
Larry

Yeah I saw that method on a YouTube video, but I didn't know that about the seam being strongest. Makes sense. Thanks!!

Dan where might I get something like that? T

I have had success with a strap wrench and putting a leather belt that is wet between the wrench and filter. Cut the belt to be a little short of going around the filter. The leather should be soft and not high polished. We always had old horse reins available that worked well. Good luck

These guys are pretty good: Search Results from Aircraft Spruce

Dan

Be sure and let us know how you get it off!
Elmo

Just don't get it within feet of anything you ever want to paint since it is silicone based.

The filter boss threaded stem is only about 1.25" long so just stay above that if driving anything thru the filter. Worse a bar will do is tear the filter housing in two. If that happens you have a seriously stuck filter! If it does, then stick one jaw of a pair of vise grips inside the filter and one outside on the remaining stub. Clamp down tightly, and while supporting the vise grips with one hand smack the side of the jaws with a hammer driving them and the filter base in a counter clockwise direction. If you rip all the housing away without it unscrewing, and there is space between the base and the gasket seat (like if there are two gaskets) then I would break a fine toothed hacksaw blade in 1/2 and holding a piece in your hand carefully saw thru the gasket(s). Saw only a 1/4" deep and work around the filter base being careful not to damage the gasket seat. If that doesn't work, consider buying a new engine and/or firing the gorilla that tightened it! }>}>}>

Hey Tyler,
Hmmmm.. I've done a lot of work with my son under the truck.
Uhhh... When he tells me it just won't come off I always go under there
and confirm he's going the right direction. Invariably he's cranking on it the wrong direction - then it's a bear to get off.

We put sandpaper & a garage rag between the filter & the wrench to get a good grip.

Good luck over there.

Ben in Austin
1950 F1

The gorilla is my son. I can't fire him. I've tried but he keeps coming back! :)

Don't ya just hate when that happens!?!? :-missingt

Wow if you have room for a strap wrench and it wont come off it either had no oil on the gasket at install and / or is on waaay to tight.
I only install filters hand tight, snugged up after the gasket hits the block.

Haha! Yeah NOW I know that! :)

This all clearly proves the premise that "experience is something you get right after you need it!"

I haven't been home to check that yet, but I've asked him that a hundred times in the last two days. For the same reason you said above :)

Reefed down oil filters are highly annoying. And oil drain plugs. Right up there with passengers who get in and BAM! slam the door shut just as hard as they can, usually accompanied by "they don't build 'em like that anymore" or "I sure like these old trucks.."

No jury would convict, would they?

About a 1/4 turn hand tight is all they need. They get quite a bit tighter by the time it needs replacement for some reason.

Gasket swells from heat and oil. Designed that way.

Yep. They should be removable by hand too (barely) at least.

Done! Took me about 5 minutes. Dang that kid!!

Attachment 111876

Put a long screw driver through it and it torqued right off. I'm not sure what all the drama was about. The "boy" just finished his 2nd varsity Bball game of the day and had a double-double, so at least he won't be feeling bad about himself that his old man got it off in 5 mins! :)

Thanks for all your help on this, guys!! Tyler

Looks like dry gasket rolled up causing leak?

That's what caused the initial leak. There was another leak at the same time from the oil pressure sender but my son kept thinking it was from the filter, so he kept tightening and tightening. THENNNNNNN he figured out it was from the sender. But to tighten the sender he had to take off the filter. But as we've seen, it would not come off easily. Anyway we finally got it off, tightened the sender, replaced the filter and now we are moving on to the next problem...hot engine and possibly dragging brakes. WOOO Hooo!!

Hey Tyler,
You are entering the shake down phase when everything should be working perfectly because you worked so hard getting it done right - but there are things that will need "ädjusting".


Brakes - Our brakes weren't quite right when we were done - the rod from the pedal to the master cylinder was just a little too long & residual pressure would build up in the system.


351W "too hot" - Hmmmm.. I've been down that road. A few thoughts:
o Our 351W has a 180 degree thermostat in it - that also is the temp that kicks off the electric fan. Our second fan speed kicks in 30 degrees higher than the first speed - 210 degrees. That's currently where our truck sits in town & in traffic. That's our 351W normal if that helps.


o A lot engine builders will use a 195 degree thermostat in a 351W as
that is what came stock in the EFI version of this engine. So... You may want to check what you have in there.


What temp. is your engine running when warmed up? Electric fan?


Good luck over there in Tucson! This phase can be aggravating....


Ben in Austin
1950 F1

Thanks for all that info Ben! It's encouraging and relevant to our situation I think. Our front disc brakes seem to suddenly get hot for no reason, we can smell them, then they suddenly cool off for no apparent reason.

So based on your engine info, maybe our engine isn't getting hot after all. Maybe that's just the way it is. I'll look into it. We don't have an electric fan, just mechanical.

Well, happy new year!

Best, t

Contrary to popular belief the thermostat rating has little to nothing to do with how hot an engine runs, just how quickly it warms up. An efi engine runs more smoothly at full operating temp so a higher rated thermostat decreases the time it takes to reach that temp.
If using a mechanical fan, be sure all factory air baffles and seals are in place especially sealing the bottom of the radiator at the gravel pan and between the hood and top of the radiator so the maximum amount of air must go thru the radiator rather than spilling out around it. (many change radiators without changing the baffling or leave them out entirely). Air will take the path of least resistance so even a relatively small unobstructed opening will significantly reduce the radiator's cooling capacity. An electric fan pulling air thru the radiator is much more efficient at cooling than a mechanical one especially in warm climes. An electric fan moves air at the same rate whether the truck is moving or not, the engine is running at idle or full song. A mechanical fan slows down at idle reducing the airflow at low speeds or standing still, just when it is most needed. Most modern engines run at 205 - 210 after fully warming up, could reach 220 under extreme conditions without harm. Be sure to use a 50-50 antifreeze/ water mix, and a pressurized radiator cap to raise the coolant boiling point well above the engine max operating temp reached when driving at slow speeds for an extended period of time on the hottest day you are likely to encounter.

Thanks Chuck! I don't have any baffles or anything like that but I'm not sure they were stock on F1s. I haven't sent them on the parts diagrams. I have a fan shroud, but that's it to force air thru the radiator vs sneaking in from around the sides.

I'm running around 200-210. You think that's alright? I'm not sure how to tell.

Thx T

Tyler,

I've been up against similar problems a couple of times. I would start by somehow verifying that the gauge is accurate. One way is to stick the sensor into boiling water....it should read close to 212 degrees. If that's not practical, an IR thermometer can tell you the temp of hot metal surfaces. The radiator top tank comes to mind for that surface.

Dan

Yeah that's where I am right now. I bought an IR thermometer and that's how I know it's about 200-210. I have a stock gauge so it's next to useless in determining an actual temp value. It just points to the hottish quadrant on the scale, but not all the way hot. The top of the radiator usually shows about 200. The block between the water pump and the thermostat housing shows about 210. So not 100% sure I've actually got a problem at all. I guess I was just expecting it to be around 180 or so. I dot know where I got that.

I really should put this under a different thread I guess.

Thanks! Tyler

Tyler, yes the F1s had the baffles.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...dfabbde9f5.jpg

Part 16613 above hood to radiator tank baffle and seal.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...71164eb002.jpg

Parts # 13068, 13069 side baffles, #8208 lower valance to radiator baffle, #8348 lower baffle seal (I don't know if these are the proper names for these parts but describes their function. #16613 should fit snugly to radiator tank when hood is closed.

Isn't this a fresh engine, new rings, etc.? Pretty normal for a fresh engine to run a little hotter at first, lots of friction, etc. Have you checked the timing, tho? And checked for proper vacuum advance?

Ok, gotcha Chuck. I have the side ones (I always thought of them as "headlight backing panels":). But I knew I was missing the top and bottom ones. They're definitely gone.

You think I should chase down some used ones and install them? I don't have a stock radiator so might have to fab something at least on top. Strangely, of all the things I've messed with on this project, I like designing and fabbing parts (even though mine usually take three attempts and look like a 1st grader made them :).

Or should I give it time and see if the engine cools as it breaks in? (See post below).

Thanks! Tyler

Yes it is. Basically brand new.
No, not yet.
No, not yet.

I was pondering whether or not timing (and carb mixture too) would affect engine temp very much. You think it will? And vacuum advance too, huh?I am planning to get a friend of mine (the PO actually) to help me work thru that next week. He is wise in such matters. :)

T