Intercooler Condensation buildup
 

Have you guys heard about the TSB (12-6-4) that is supposed to address a condensation build up in the intercooler?
Sounds like a serious issue if you are affected - with sudden loss of power, etc.
I have not experienced it yet, and I am wondering how widespread the issue is. Anybody else not having the problem?
I am assuming (and hoping) that this is a rare problem, but trying to see some responses from people here ....

Haven't had an issue with mine but then again I don't use cruise control and it seems to be a related issue.

Interesting. Apparently part of the solution in TSB is to put as air deflector on the intercooler. Would really like to see a picture of that. Would like to know if the intent is to increase or decrease airflow. If its to decrease it, I guess that would settle the lower grille discussion.

I was just wondering about how many people need to report the same issue before a tsb is actually issued? with possibly hundreds of thousands of trucks out there with the ecoboost, i wonder what percentage that turns out to be? just wonderin...:-roll

Yeah, no kidding.
From what I heard it is blocking part of the intercooler - could be redirecting the flow though also. I have not seen a pic myself.
It would be funny if it would reduce the airflow - in that case Ford tells people to not block the airflow with anything and then issues a TSB partially blocking it. :)

But wait a minute - no - the issue would not necessarily be settled. The TSB combines the air deflector with a new programming. From what I read, people suspect that the re-programming reduces the boost, and with it power and heat. So it could be that reducing the cooling (= air flow) reduces the condensation, but needs to be combined with a boost reduction.

Anyway - all of what I said is what I read about it - and all of that is speculation. So take it with a grain of salt. Hopefully there will be more information out soon.

So nobody on FTE has experienced this issue? That would be nice and reassuring ....

I have a 2011 EB SuperCrew with almost 5000 miles.
I have not experienced the problem. I do occasionally use cruise control.
I am with you, hoping this is not a widespread problem. I'd hate to have to reduce the boost to fix the problem if it does crop up.
We shall see......

This guy had the issue discribed.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-ecoboost.html

This is the only report on FTE that i can remember.

Yeah, meborder, thanks. That's the issue, no doubt.
Looks like the problem sure isn't wide spread, and I will make sure to not keep the truck in cruise at the same speed for too long, I think.
The fix though sounds like a little bit of a band-aid, but we'll see once more real reports come out. I sure hope they don't reduce the power.

Here I kanged this from another site, it looks to block like a third of the upper part of the CAC. Sorry for the quality.

Thanks Matt. Sure does look like a blocker. I've always been a little curious about the overall size of the intercooler. Especially since Ford already engineered that support bar across the front of it that looked like it would deflect a significant amount of airflow from the upper portion.

I don't think it's the use of cruise control per se but the use of CC in wet or very humid conditions.

I haven't experienced any symptoms of any kind but truthfully, here in SE Virginia, CC is barely an option as traffic is tight all the time.

AAAahh yes, there is no traffic like HRBT traffic... I try to explain that to my NoVA friends all the time.

Heck...I just walked in the house after driving back from DC and I couldn't use the darned cruise anywhere today....

I'm not even 100% convinced it has anything to do with cruise. I think it has more to do with steady state cruising and never flowing enough air through the intercooler to flush out the water that is collecting.

it could be that they change the boost map when on cruise control, but i doubt it.

i bet this happens on open roads in high humidity, it just so happens that out here in the plains you get ample opportunity to use cruise. if you drove for 6 hours with your foot at 70mph in 90% humidity i'd bet a sammich it would do it as well, but who does that? if you have that much open road, most will use cruise (i know there are some control freaks out there that refuse to use it .. i'm married to one of them).

i doubt this would ever happen in stop and go; the intercooler is not cooling as well due to lack of airflow over it, and you are surging more air through the cooler when you accelerate.

Yes, I'd agree that the issue is not cruise directly, but constant speed driving with no boost. That makes me think it should not happen when towing, because I think that the turbos are on when towing a travel trailer at 60mph.
I also think that probably temperature plays into it, meaning high temps make it worse? I live in Western WA, so we have near 100% humidity almost all winter. I'd expect nearly every F-150 to exhibit the issue here if it was humidity only ....

It could be worse when towing.... other than you may get enough very high demand cycles to keep the moisture under check.

there's a video on U-tube (which i cannot currently find), and it shows a guy driving about 65mph down the road and you catch a quick glimps of his boost guage on the pillar. the road looked very flat and the boost guage clearly showed boost.

here's one, but not the one i'm looking for (get ready to jam!)
Ecoboost mileage with boost psi - YouTube


So i'm thinking, that you are pretty much always in the turbos at highway speed, thus you are heating up all this humid air, and the cooler does it's thing, and the moisture drops out of the air and condenses in the bottom of the cooler.

in the winter, the air can't hold much moisture to begin with, so the problem all but disappears, or so i would bet.

maybe i'm all wet, but this is how i'm seeing it.

Not sure, meborder, maybe you are right.
My thinking was just that with a trailer, the engine is at high load at all times, but maybe that does not matter.
You are of course correct that the cold air can't hold much moisture. Dang, this for sure is not a very simple issue .... and I hope I'll never experience it.
Just trying to figure out how to avoid it. If I can do that, I'll be all set. :-X22

Flixden,

I will give you an update on my experience. Since the initial episode i had three additional times when i experienced loss of power. The concerning thing is the last time I had not been traveling at a continuous speed but actually accelerating up a hill after coming to a complete stop. That time it had nothing to do with humidity or speed as it was warm (89 F) and this was in the middle of Montana where humidity rarely gets above 30%. Also My truck has now been into the dealer 4 times since the end of April as it keeps throwing the same code (p0420) and the check engine light keeps coming on. I just got my truck back again last Friday and Tuesday the light came back on. Very frustrating now. I have also noticed what I feel is more soot buildup around the end of the tailpipe. I have included a link describing the P0420 code and I will keep you updated as to what happens.

Mitch

P0420 Error Code: Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)

Mitch, that sounds frustrating. Yes, please keep us updated. I hope for you that they can fix it, and fix it soon.

My truck has less than 700 miles and the inside of tailpipe is completely coated with black soot. Doesn't seem any different then what I saw with my supercharged Corvette or twin turbo LSx.

a friend of mine works at a Ford dealership and one of the salesman has an eco boost and he had the loss of power thing happen to him a couple of times while driving in a hard downpour. My friend also has an ecoboost and in the 4000 miles he's had it he's had no problems yet.

Not to worry ford will have it figured out just shortly after u go out of warranty, been there done that, never buy first year of new product, I will be waiting until at least the fourth year of real world results:-drink

I hear you, I was dead set on giving the ecoboost a try on my next truck, but I think now I'll go with the 5.0l. It seems like those have less issues than the eco.

I am with u on this have only heard of one issue on the 5.0 something to do with the timing chains not sure if it is much of an issue??

There are more. You're just not looking hard enough.

I haven't looked much lately as I am not in the market just yet and I will be looking outside ford when I am, what have u seen on the 5.0 anything serious??

It's bad. Very bad. :-X04

Everyone is trying hard to find issues with the Eco, few are suceeding, I have close to 10,000 miles on my 2012 and it as been good. I doubt that the 5.0 will not have some issues at some point also, it took some time before the 5.4 cam phasers, sparkplug issues started to show up on the net.

I think is what is going on with the condensation is really no different then what a air compressor encounters, when you compress air, it becomes warm (turbos) when you cool it down the water condenses, (Intercooler)
The intercooler has a design flaw that allows the condensation to collect in the bottom and when conditions are right some of the water gets ingested into the engine and causes a missfire, water don't burn, I would think that they should be able to come up with a add on drain to the intercooler that corrects the issue, probably already are testing it but it cannot be released until durability and emmisions are confirmed.
Or they can lower the boost, reduce the air temp change through the intercooler and fix it with software but that will cost us power,

Yeah, that would be a bandaid, and a bad one. That could be seen as false advertisement, as the truck now does not develop the power they said it would, right?
The problem is that it sounds like the current TSB does exactly that. I wonder if newly shipped trucks will have that bracket installed or not .....

More discussion, and links on page two to patents seeking to fix this. Note reference to GM and VW, so this is not a "Ford only" problem.

Intercooler condensation - Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans

Condensed water in intercooler piping - TDIClub Forums

Probably answer is some kind of reservoir or catch can that purges itself periodically.

Very interesting - thanks for posting this!

Yea, with all the gas turbo motors out there, this has to have come up one way or another. I had an '04 Audi A4 1.8 turbo, never had a hiccup even in a rain storm that had me hydroplaning and spinning the tires on a very slight hill at 60+mph.

The Ford patent noted in one of the other links ( CONDENSATION TRAP FOR CHARGE AIR COOLER ) was filed in Oct 2009. The published date of the drawing was April 2011. Wouldn't that design already be in the IC for the 2011 trucks if thought it worked?

Filing and receiving a patent does not mean it will EVER be implemented in a product.

That was my point - if they thought it worked it would already be on the IC's. Maybe it is and it doesn't work under some conditions. Maybe it is used on other Ford IC's and not the one on the F-150.
If you search patents for "charge air" there are numerous patents to extract or control moisture in IC's. I wonder how many, if any, are actually used.

I dont think it has so much to do with whether it works or not, so much as it has to do with whether they thought they could do with out it.

i'm sure there was a cost analysis involved, and based on the testing conditions the prototypes saw, they decided it was not required.

we know that the condensation traps work, as other manufacturers are using them. I expect that they will issue a TSB at some point for a retrofit to be installed on vehicles which develop a problem. I also expect that new models will come equipped with a trap at some point to eliminate the problem for the entire model line.

but i've been wrong a time or two, so who knows ...

From my experience with the 5.4 issues ford will not do anything until at least 3yrs, since by that time most warranty will be done, anything before that will just be a bandaid fix for those who bitch the loudest:-drink

This problem seems to be more common to people who baby their trucks trying to get optimum fuel mileage. I've been driving the wheels off mine and haven't had this or any issues in 14 months. :D If I cared about fuel mileage I wouldn't have put 34" mud terrains on it.

I guess Ford has that option. However, if they would do that, and I would be affected by the problem, this would be my first and last Ford vehicle, as that behavior would just suck. :-(

There is a fella on my route who has an earlier Mazdaspeed (protoge'). His license plate bracket is offset and his intercooler is wide open and up front. I've been trying to catch him to ask him if he's ever had any issues of any kind.

I only bring this up due to Ford and Mazda's past marriage.