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-   -   track bar/tie rod maybe?? (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1056877-track-bar-tie-rod-maybe.html)

cowgirlup11 04-07-2011 01:20 PM

track bar/tie rod maybe??
 
I'm not sure what is going on with my truck i thought maybe the ball joints? but ive looked & thought maybe my tie rod ends. ever sice i went mudding its been like this. driving back i got it into 4th and my front tires started bouncing but when i slowed down it went away.

here are some pictures its muddy but maybe someone could help me what it might be?

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...Picture030.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...cture028-1.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...Picture027.jpg

thanks.
:]

RSCHAP1 04-07-2011 01:31 PM

The way that you say it has only started doing it since muddin'...
Tires/wheels out of balance from clumps of dried mud on one side of the rim, not other.
Loose track bar will allow front end "HOP" while braking.
Try washing the mud out of the rim interior and see what happens


:)

montana_highboy 04-07-2011 01:51 PM

Hard to diagnose based on pics alone, you really need to get the front-end up on stands and check the ball joints, drag link, tie rod ends, etc. for excessive wear,
but having said that it does appear your passenger side tie rod end may have some play to it, if so this can mimic an out of balance wheel and cause some pretty serious front-end wobble over 35-40mph.

cowgirlup11 04-07-2011 01:52 PM

thanks.
:)
ill do that its really hard to even see what im looking at with all the mud. when i got the truck the guy said ill have to replace the kingpin soon? would that cause this? where is my kingpin at?

77&79F250 04-07-2011 01:53 PM

Your truck is a F250 it does not have a "track bar" that is a 1/2 ton item, and yes your passenger side tie rod end looks like it's due replacement.

With the truck setting still, running, have some one turn the steering wheel back and forth few inches rather quickly and look for some (radial and axle) play in the tie rod ends.

Easy to replace, rent a tie rod fork, pop them out, count threads/rotations and remove and replace just the ends, as long as you main cross bar is not bent.

I dig flatbeds!

77&79F250 04-07-2011 01:58 PM

Looks like a D44 front end so you do not have kingpins, you have ball joints. They are at the top and bottom of where your spindle attaches to your axle.

Take the thing to the car wash or the river and get it a little de-mudded to make it easier to see whats shot under there.

cowgirlup11 04-07-2011 01:58 PM


Originally Posted by montana_highboy (Post 10192890)
Hard to diagnose based on pics alone, you really need to get the front-end up on stands and check the ball joints, drag link, tie rod ends, etc. for excessive wear,
but having said that it does appear your passenger side tie rod end may have some play to it, if so this can mimic an out of balance wheel and cause some pretty serious front-end wobble over 35-40mph.


that sounds like whats happening when i get to like 40 it goes crazy. i lifted the front up up last night but it was to dark ill do it again.
:]

montana_highboy 04-07-2011 02:00 PM


Originally Posted by cowgirlup11 (Post 10192896)
when i got the truck the guy said ill have to replace the kingpin soon?

That guy doesn't know what he's talking about, your truck has ball joints, 73-75 highboys used king pins, 76-77.5 highboys used ball joints.

cowgirlup11 04-07-2011 02:01 PM


Originally Posted by 77&79F250 (Post 10192900)
Your truck is a F250 it does not have a "track bar" that is a 1/2 ton item, and yes your passenger side tie rod end looks like it's due replacement.

With the truck setting still, running, have some one turn the steering wheel back and forth few inches rather quickly and look for some (radial and axle) play in the tie rod ends.

Easy to replace, rent a tie rod fork, pop them out, count threads/rotations and remove and replace just the ends, as long as you main cross bar is not bent.

I dig flatbeds!

haha thanks. my brother said it might be my track bar but he's an idiot.
i talked to some guys at checker they said its probably the tie rod..

thanks i dig them too.
:]]

cowgirlup11 04-07-2011 02:04 PM


Originally Posted by montana_highboy (Post 10192931)
That guy doesn't know what he's talking about, your truck has ball joints, 73-75 highboys used king pins, 76-77.5 highboys used ball joints.

thanks. i looked it up in lmc & it wasent showing kingpins just ball joints.
:]

cowgirlup11 04-07-2011 02:07 PM

also so i wont have to replace the whole bar just the tie rods ends?

77&79F250 04-07-2011 02:16 PM

As long as its not bent you should be ok, after you replace all the worn front end stuff, get a alignment.

cowgirlup11 04-07-2011 02:22 PM


Originally Posted by 77&79F250 (Post 10193015)
As long as its not bent you should be ok, after you replace all the worn front end stuff, get a alignment.

i will. ha
thanks.
:D
its not bent. theres just no bushings or whatever those rubber things are called aint there. or barly hanging on.
:/

montana_highboy 04-07-2011 02:24 PM


Originally Posted by cowgirlup11 (Post 10192974)
also so i wont have to replace the whole bar just the tie rods ends?

Unfortunately the whole bar, it's all one piece, if it's your passenger side tie rod that's bad (as it appears it may be) then be prepared for a little sticker shock,
$140/Moog/TRW or $170/Spicer, i just did mine last summer and opted for the Spicer part, the hardest part of the job for me was getting the damn frozen castle nut off,
the one that holds the hydraulic ram to the tie rod, set your toe-in (1/8") with a tape and you're done.

cowgirlup11 04-07-2011 02:31 PM

is it pretty hard too do??
:/

77&79F250 04-07-2011 02:39 PM

Yea Mont H is right, I'm the doof, its a complete assembly on the pass side, so its whole bar time$$

montana_highboy 04-07-2011 03:02 PM


Originally Posted by cowgirlup11 (Post 10193082)
is it pretty hard too do??
:/

Like "77&79F250" said earlier, it's pretty easy, remove the 2 castle nuts (one from the TRE, one from the ram) loosen the nut on your adjusting sleeve, the TRE should pop out with a few whacks of a hammer, if not, a puller or even a pickle fork will suffice, install your new TRE and set your toe.

cowgirlup11 04-07-2011 03:04 PM


Originally Posted by 77&79F250 (Post 10193121)
Yea Mont H is right, I'm the doof, its a complete assembly on the pass side, so its whole bar time$$

where can i buy that at? like checker or auto zone? do you know how much that might cost? :-huh

montana_highboy 04-07-2011 03:20 PM


Originally Posted by cowgirlup11 (Post 10193211)
where can i buy that at? like checker or auto zone? do you know how much that might cost? :-huh

Maybe it got lost in the shuffle but i posted that info back in post #14, most any local parts house can get it for you (most likely it will be an overnight item) expect to pay anywhere between $140-$170 for it.

cowgirlup11 04-07-2011 03:26 PM


Originally Posted by montana_highboy (Post 10193248)
Maybe it got lost in the shuffle but i posted that info back in post #14, most any local parts house can get it for you (most likely it will be an overnight item) expect to pay anywhere between $140-$170 for it.

oh duh.
:-roll
i missed that. haha
thanks.
thats not that bad. does it take a full day? thanks for all your guys help.
i'd still be confussed.

montana_highboy 04-07-2011 03:31 PM


Originally Posted by cowgirlup11 (Post 10193265)
does it take a full day?

Not at all, i'd allow yourself a few hours, and you probably won't even need all of that.

77&79F250 04-07-2011 03:42 PM

1/2 hr if the nuts come off, meaning the (castle nut) (nut that holds the tie rod end into the TRE) comes off and the threaded end and it does not just spin in the hole.

If it does, rent/borrow a tie rod end fork from the parts store, jab it in there to apply torque to it and hope the nut will then come off.

If you do not fix it, it will result in bad front end wear on you tires (Good Year MT II's
16.5's right?) and continued crappy driving manners.

When you are in the parts store get a Haynes or Chilton $12.00 manual for your year/era of truck it will help with the confusion.

Should cover the basics on tie rod, ball joint, steering component replacement.

As they say and not to be corny, COWGIRL UP ON THAT HORSE!

Yea lame, but motivation to do it yourself.

cowgirlup11 04-07-2011 04:14 PM


Originally Posted by 77&79F250 (Post 10193328)
1/2 hr if the nuts come off, meaning the (castle nut) (nut that holds the tie rod end into the TRE) comes off and the threaded end and it does not just spin in the hole.

If it does, rent/borrow a tie rod end fork from the parts store, jab it in there to apply torque to it and hope the nut will then come off.

If you do not fix it, it will result in bad front end wear on you tires (Good Year MT II's
16.5's right?) and continued crappy driving manners.

When you are in the parts store get a Haynes or Chilton $12.00 manual for your year/era of truck it will help with the confusion.

Should cover the basics on tie rod, ball joint, steering component replacement.

As they say and not to be corny, COWGIRL UP ON THAT HORSE!

Yea lame, but motivation to do it yourself.



i think i was confussed cause too any people were telling me too many different things what they thought was wrong with it.

thank you.

raytasch 04-07-2011 07:16 PM

Check out what appears to be a crack in the crossmember as shown in the middle picture. Clean the mud from the truck and stay out of it.

78 PEB 04-08-2011 03:00 AM

Best way I found to clean up after mudding was to park the truck on top of a sprinkler over night then head to the carwash...................LOL

teds74ford 04-09-2011 10:12 AM


Originally Posted by 77&79F250 (Post 10193328)
1/2 hr if the nuts come off, meaning the (castle nut) (nut that holds the tie rod end into the TRE) comes off and the threaded end and it does not just spin in the hole.

If it does, rent/borrow a tie rod end fork from the parts store, jab it in there to apply torque to it and hope the nut will then come off.
.

I have found that if you apply slight pressure, a lot of times you can remove the nut. For example, on the TRE, put a jack under it so there is a slight uplift on the TRE (and knuckle) and then you can spin it off. Also, I don't like pickle forks because they tear up the boots. I put the nut on and put a board over it and hit it with a sledge.

As far as alignment, premeasure the existing tie rod, count the adjusted turns and then when you setup the new one, you should be close. I use an angle square and chalk to mark the front and back of my tires and then make the front # 1/8"-1/4" less.

Finally, you can use a pipe wrench to easily spin the adjusting sleeve.

78 PEB 04-09-2011 10:41 AM

Another way to pop a tie rod end out of the hole in the knuckle.................
1) Remove the cotter pin and nut.
2) Place a large hammer on one side of the knuckle, with the handle parralel to the stud on the tie rod.
3) Using another large hammer, smack the knuckle 180 degrees from the other hammer.
4) Repeat until it pops loose
Doing it this way will not damage the boot. What you are actually doing by doing it this way is; slightly temporarily deforming the tapered hole. You wont damage anything by doing them this way if you dont get stupid with it. It actually kind of squeezes the tapered stud out of the hole. Of course some good penetrating oil is always in order. And if you have a buddy apply some pressure with a prybar between the tie rod end and the knuckle it helps too. I've used this method on anything from small cars to large construction equipment for years. My old high school auto mechanincs teacher showed me this trick.

77&79F250 04-09-2011 10:50 AM

Great ideas but you are replacing the tie rod/rubber boot, I know you get a replacement boot anyway and the biggest issue is getting the nut to break loose from the bolt.

I like the jack idea have to try that next time, then try your idea there 78PEB.

cowgirlup11 whats the status of your front end issues, get them fixed yet?

78 PEB 04-09-2011 10:55 AM

And if getting the nut off is a problem, the hot wrench always works too...........I'd almost bet that cowgirl knows how to use one of those.......LOL

78 PEB 04-09-2011 11:00 AM


Originally Posted by raytasch (Post 10194027)
Check out what appears to be a crack in the crossmember as shown in the middle picture. Clean the mud from the truck and stay out of it.

I think I'm seeing the same crack ratasch...............right on the corner of the bend. Might be an optical illusion, but I'd check it out........

fordtrucknut77 04-10-2011 08:15 AM

if the tie rod doesnt fix it, I cant tell from your pics but if you have a steering stabilizer try taking it off. I had a truck that would develop true death wobble for no apparent reason and finally figured out that the steering stabilizer was the issue. replacd it, well i put three on there cause they looked cool. and fixed the problem.

teds74ford 04-11-2011 06:34 AM

Personally, I think they're a waste. I had the exact same tires that she does, and I had no issues. I made sure everything was good (bushings, ball joints, tie rods) and never ran a stabilizer.

skidoodave 04-11-2011 07:58 AM


Originally Posted by 78 PEB (Post 10199970)
I think I'm seeing the same crack ratasch...............right on the corner of the bend. Might be an optical illusion, but I'd check it out........

I just looked at this thread. Definatley a crack starting to form right at the radius of that cross member, looks fresh as there is no rust on it. Maybe this happened on the last off road trip and is contributing to the wild ride. Nothining a little weld'n would fix up.

cowgirlup11 04-14-2011 01:49 PM

ok so i furgured out my problem.
my ball joints are good. i took my tie rod off & the tie rod ends are good.

i did replace the bushing/boot rubber things with new ones.
& cleaned out everything found out my power steering box needs to be adjusted.

when i move my steering wheel it moves bad.
but trying to read up on how to do that before i start doing something wrong.

77&79F250 04-14-2011 02:06 PM

Where you been riding fence line on the back 40? Well good news on the ball joints, tie rod ends and on the boot change.

Is the play in the steering shaft under the master cylinder at either end (ck little u-joints in shaft) or actually in the box itself? Where the steering shaft comes out and the pit-man arm connects?

And clean up the underside and look into this crack some folks see in the cross member area, ok?

Side? Barrel Racer, are you a WPRA or IPRA circuit member by chance? Just curious....

cowgirlup11 04-14-2011 02:28 PM


Originally Posted by 77&79F250 (Post 10220891)
Where you been riding fence line on the back 40? Well good news on the ball joints, tie rod ends and on the boot change.

Is the play in the steering shaft under the master cylinder at either end (ck little u-joints in shaft) or actually in the box itself? Where the steering shaft comes out and the pit-man arm connects?

And clean up the underside and look into this crack some folks see in the cross member area, ok?

Side? Barrel Racer, are you a WPRA or IPRA circuit member by chance? Just curious....


wheres the cross member that looks like a crack at?

its moving the steering shaft comes out and connects the that arm.
like when you turn the tires that arm that connects to the steering box thing isnt tight. i heard you can just tighten it.?

77&79F250 04-14-2011 02:38 PM

Cross member crack
 
1 Attachment(s)
See attached pic, top left corner. Circle in the black box. Its on the drvs side front of cross member, correct everyone?

There is a bearing where that shaft comes out, once its worn out its replacement time.

Steering box guru's correct?

cowgirlup11 04-14-2011 02:39 PM

heres some better pictures. when i was cleaning the mud off the bushing on the passenager side was just sittin above the tie rod there caked in mud.
but that blue arm thing in the first picture is what was moving but only at the bottom.

side view
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...cture002-2.jpg


front view
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...Picture005.jpg


new bushings
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...Picture003.jpg


http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...Picture004.jpg

77&79F250 04-14-2011 02:50 PM

I forgot that you have the older style system, its called "power assist" and I have NO experience on them.

But I am sure alot of Highboy owners have an idea on how to fix, hang tight for the answers.

Nice bushings, did you change them yourself? If so good for you.

montana_highboy 04-14-2011 03:10 PM

That blue part is your pitman arm, it connects to your control valve, that connection is where you're seeing "play",
this play is normal when the truck is turned off because the power assist isn't pressurized, with the truck running and the system under pressure this play is eliminated and the connection is more responsive,
at least in theory anyway ;), but after nearly four decades of wear i wouldn't count on it, there should be a zerk fitting in the control valve to grease the ball stud and seats,
i noticed your zerk is missing and capped off with a small bolt, so it probably hasn't seen any lube in ages, if you need one, there is a ball stud repair kit available through DC or NPD for $50.


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