It Won;t Turn Over
 

Hello Everyone

This is my first post. I will do an introduction in the appropriate section.

I have a 2002 SD with a 7.3. It is not equipped with a cat and is not OBD II compatible. The truck has 225K miles on it.

When I engage the ignition to the first stop, everything lights up. When I turn the switch to engage the starter nothing happens. I do not hear well but I cannot even hear a click.

My thoughts are the solenoid or the neutral the neutral safety switch. I don't want to miss something simple before I start testing everything.

I appreciate any and all suggestions.

Grits :-X16

I would start with trying the gear selector in neutral and park, wiggle it, after that start with the batteries and start checking connections, solenoids. I don't remember the superdutys having a particular flaw for start ups.

what he said.... If u have a test light, check to see if you are getting power to the small wire on the starter when someone turns the key for u. If it lights up, it is the starter. U can try tapping it with a hammer to see if it wil start.

If there is no power, we will have to work your way back.

My first step would be to consider that the alternator has failed, consequently the batteries have minimal charge?

Batteries are hot and alternator checks out fine
 

Thanks Everyone

The batteries are hot and the alternator is fine. I have tried giggling the shifter in neutral and park with no results. I have tried banging on the starter with no results. It is snowing here so I cannot get under the truck but I do not feel it is the starter. I have been down that road before.

Grits

Try bypassing the solenoid...The smaller wire to 12v. mine is on the pass side fender wall..12v on that terminal should turn over the engine with the key off..If no click of the solenoid its bad. try jumping the 2 larger terminals that should engage the starter also.
That is if its the same wiring as my 99. No banging on the starter... Magnets break..


Dick

My guess would be solenoid or a bad connection somewhere. Jump it to see. Good luck.

Still No Luck
 

Hello Everyone

I have tried everything mentioned above. The starter checks out. The key switch is new. I am thinking it is a relay somewhere in between. The small wire going to the starter is not receiving current when I try to engage the starter.

If the is a solenoid on the passenger side fender, I cannot see it.

As luck would have it, it has done nothing but rain and snow since the truck quit starting. It is in my driveway. It never happens at the farm where I have nice warm dry shop to work on it.

Again, I am open to any and all suggestions.

Thank you,

Roger :-X20

You have to be more specific pls. That small wire gets hot from the solenoid on the side of the fender behind the battery..Does that solenoid click? That solenoid gets its power from the key switch. If the solenoid behind the battery isn't clicking when you turn the key you need to get a test light and see if the small wire on that solenoid is getting hot with key to start.

Dick

Try the relay in the diagram below. Take it out and look for corrosion around the base, then take another identical relay out of the same box that isn't critical (like the accessory delay relay) and put it in there. If that lets it crank, then you know it's that relay and you can get another one.

You can usually get them from Ford for about $20.

Is fuse 22 ok?

He has an 02....There is no solenoid on the fender on those. I learned the hard way about that.

For a 2002, he would want to check Fuse 31 (15 amp) and Fuse 113 (30 amp).

Thank you
 

I am on it and will report back in an hour. You fellows have been a great help.

Roger:-X21

Iwas afraid of that. I knew the 05's were that way.
Check the nuetral sw on the tranny. The pcm controls the relay After it senses park N..OK

Didn't mean to be misleading.


Dick

Its hard to troubleshoot one without seeing it but thats how i learned it too. Springerpop told me. I went through to find what year it stopped. My 00 is the same as yours so we go off what we know ours to be. It started in 02 according to schematics.

Oh well. I have some cd's but not all.

No Luck
 

All the fuses check out. Is there an easy way to test the neutral safty switch? Thanks again for the diagram for the fuse box. Do you have the supporting data as to what each fuse is for?

Thanks,

Grits

What about the relay?

The Relay in the fuse pannel checks out fine
 

Hello Everyone, The fuses are all okay. Now I can hear the relat ckick when I engage the ignition. I am attaching an image of my fuse box.


What is the funny looking fuse marked in yellow?

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/a...is/fusebox.jpg

Grits

Just because you can hear a relay click doesn't mean it's working. Try what I suggested. Put known good relay in the starter relay position and see what happens.

I can't tell what fuse position that is in the picture because of the angle of the picture. The view of the lower row of fuses is blocked by the bottom relays.

I did swap the relays
 

Thanks dchamberlain

I did swap the starter relay with no luck. I have tried everything suggested.

In the past, a neutral safty switch gave me some warning. ie, having to giggle the shifter in either park or neutral. I have tried that with no luck; however, I feel it may be the problem.

I will try to get a better photo tomorrow morning. I can email you the original with higher difinition if you like.

Grits :-X09

It was not raining too hard
 

Here is a better shot of the funny looking fuse.

Thats just a fuse that lights up when it is blown. What does the red wire feed?

Radar Detector
 

Hello Everyone

The red wire feeds the radar detector.

Grits

There is no neutral safety switch to check out. The Digital Transmission Range Sensor is internal to the transmission and indicates the shifter position back to the PCM. The PCM provides the ground path for the starter relay if the DTR is indicating Neutral or Park. If the relay is activating, the the DTR is most likely working properly.

How did you test the fuses? Visually or did you use a test light or meter? If you didn't use a test light or meter, test Fuse 113 with it. If the relay is working, it seems that it either has to be that fuse or the starter solenoid or motor itself.

According to schematic, there is a connector somewhere on the right fender. I do not know where exactly. I would guess where the starter relay is that u do no have near the battery on that side. It is a round one pin and has either a yellow and light blue wire or a red wire.

if u can find one that one, check to see if if signal makes it to there.

Thanks David
 

David

I used a meter on all the fuses. The starter checks out fine. I am not getting current to the small wire, that attaches to the started, when the ignition is engaged. The large wire is showing 12.8V.

This has really got me scratching my head.

I am going to recheck everything tomorrow morning. I am capable of missing something simple. It is not like working on my old '59 T-Bird when I was a kid (long time ago) or other misc. hot rods.

I have a '73 Landrover that has a hand crank for a good reason. It always works. Anyone that ask why it has a hand crank has never owned a vechile with Lucas electronics (electrical). If they had, they would know.

I am one step from turning the ingintion switch on and see if it starts if I jump the small wire on the starter to the hot side of the battery. At least I could drive it to a warm and dry place to work on it.

I really appreciate your help.

Grits

I would jump the starter. If u can disconnect the small wire from the starter, check it again if u had it connected when u checked it the first time. I have seen a meter show no power when connected and actually be getting power but it was being all used up by the motor. I know thats weird but true. Its rare but happens sometimes.

Thank you Carlton
 

Thanks again

I replaced the started. I jumped the small wire to the hot wire and nothing happened. O'Riley has a lifetime warranty on all remanufactured parts they sell. They gladly replaced it. My old started checked out fine on their machine but the replaced it anyway.

Strange story about wiring. I owned a turf business for twenty five years. We installed a very long sprinkler system like you would see on a golf course. The well was about 3/8's of a mile from one of the controllers. We would shut the system down at the controller and the well kept running. The long run of wire was storing current like a battery. I figured it out but it took some time. I thought I was dealing with a Haint trying to drive me nuts. I was close to hanging a Clorox jug on both ends.

Grits

Did u touch a wire from the hot wire to the small post on the starter or from the hot post to the small wire?

If u get new starter on, and no crank, let us know. Or if it does crank, let us know.

More Info
 

Hello Again

When I attempt to engage the starter, the odometer goes dark as does the radio and another light or two on the instrumentation panel. I tried the same with the headlights on and there was no change in their intensity.

I do not believe the starter motor is getting any current.

Grits:-X20

Actually, that sounds like discharged batteries, or a seized starter that is drawing way too much power.

Do not think so
 

Thanks for the reply David

The batteries are hot (12.8V). Only a few lights shut off. They did not dim. The rest were bright as were my overhead lights. My headlights did not change one bit when I tried to engage the starter. Everything seemed normal with the exception of the most important part, the starter motor did not engage.

Grits

You may have a grounding problem. Check all of the grounds between the engine and chassis you can find. It's possible that power is flowing back through circuits necessary for the starter in an attempt to find a ground path.

Something is causing those lights to dim. It's not a bad relay or switch or anything like that. Often, weird things like that are bad grounds.

Good Idea
 

Thanks David, I will check all the grounds in the morning. That is the only thing I have not checked that I can think of. David, what is puzzeling to me is why don't all the lights dim if there is a bad ground? I do not doubt you I am just trying to learn something.

Girts

I think the lights going out he is referring to are the normal circuits that deactivate when u turn the key, stuff like oil osi, batt etc....I think. I am kinda confused. Grounds are definitely a good way to start, especially the one at the starter.

When u took a wire and hooked the large hot post at the starter to the small post at the starter, did it crank?

Carlton could be right. There are indicator lights that go out when it's starting. It won't hurt to check the grounds but that might not lead anywhere.

Attached is the most significant wiring diagram. It really should be pretty simple, just follow the wires. But then, sometimes the simplest things can be the hardest to track down.

NO
 

Hello Carlton

It did not with the old starter and I have not tried it with the new one. As many of you know, the starters on the 7.3 can be finicky. I have been through several. Sometimes, as a last resort, a whack with a hammer will temporally solve the problem. I am reluctant to try it with a new starter. I am going to wire a momentary switch to the small wire on the starter and to the hot side of the battery after I check the grounds. Assuming the starter is good, that should get it running.

Everything was fine with no indications of trouble. I stopped to get fuel and shut the unit off. When I attempted to start it again, nothing!

Everything lit up as usual but the started did not engage or run. Short version, everything was fine one minute and not fine the next.

Grits

By all means check the neg of the battery that it goes to the engine block and all is secure. The neutral safety switch on mine is on the outside of the tranny where the linkage goes in. I don't know about an 02. I think its the same..Should be.
This is getting spooky.