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-   1961 - 1966 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum40/)
-   -   1966 F100 Short Bed Styleside Metal/Body/Paint Work (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1578338-1966-f100-short-bed-styleside-metal-body-paint-work.html)

TA455HO 04-09-2023 09:00 AM

If you haven't seen the work he did on the other 1966 Ford F100 it's in this other thread (link below). Neither truck is owned by @theastronaut he only does this for the glory. OK, not JUST the glory. Here's what he said in that other thread.

So for the cost...

We charged for nearly 2000 hours @ 50/hour. We spent over 2000 hours on it but we don't charge for 40 hours per empleyee every week. If we did work on it all week exclusively, we charge for 35 hours for each guy working. People come by to look/talk, we have to go to the bathroom, answer the phone, etc so we don't think it's honest to charge for all 40 hours. So really there were more, but not all were billed. $50/hour is too cheap so we've gone up. It's not worth doing this full time if we could make more money somewhere else without the headache of owning your own business. Most shops that do this quality of work are $70/hour or higher, so this in a sense was a "cheap" restoration. If we worked out of a shop in our backyard without the overhead of a business than we could survive at $50/hour, and make a decent living.

So labor was nearly $100,000.


1966 F100 Shortbed Styleside Full Stock Resto Build Thread - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums (ford-trucks.com)

This other truck he's been working on for over 4 years now so it will likely set a whole new record for cost of labor. My current guess is $200,000 already spent. Think about that for a moment.

Show that to your wife/girlfriend next time she complains about some new parts that you bought...

theastronaut 08-04-2023 03:38 PM


Originally Posted by bernd61hd (Post 20751883)
Hello, very good work. It will be a work of art....
greet Bernd

Thanks Bernd!!



Originally Posted by doug64f100 (Post 20753763)
Amazing work and attention to detail. This will be a work of art, design and craftsmanship! I love the updates.
Doug

Thanks!



Originally Posted by Y2KW57 (Post 20807600)
Jimmeny Christmas!

New truck owners talk about their so called "build" threads.

Uh uh. I don't think so.

Now THIS thread is what is called a BUILD thread.

Dayum.

SUBSCRIBED.

Glad you're enjoying the build thread!



Originally Posted by Bonestock (Post 20809061)
Wow!! Thanks for sharing with all the pictures too! Amazing workmanship!

Thanks!!



Originally Posted by TA455HO (Post 20809114)
If you haven't seen the work he did on the other 1966 Ford F100 it's in this other thread (link below). Neither truck is owned by @theastronaut he only does this for the glory. OK, not JUST the glory. Here's what he said in that other thread.

So for the cost...

We charged for nearly 2000 hours @ 50/hour. We spent over 2000 hours on it but we don't charge for 40 hours per empleyee every week. If we did work on it all week exclusively, we charge for 35 hours for each guy working. People come by to look/talk, we have to go to the bathroom, answer the phone, etc so we don't think it's honest to charge for all 40 hours. So really there were more, but not all were billed. $50/hour is too cheap so we've gone up. It's not worth doing this full time if we could make more money somewhere else without the headache of owning your own business. Most shops that do this quality of work are $70/hour or higher, so this in a sense was a "cheap" restoration. If we worked out of a shop in our backyard without the overhead of a business than we could survive at $50/hour, and make a decent living.

So labor was nearly $100,000.


1966 F100 Shortbed Styleside Full Stock Resto Build Thread - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums (ford-trucks.com)

This other truck he's been working on for over 4 years now so it will likely set a whole new record for cost of labor. My current guess is $200,000 already spent. Think about that for a moment.

Show that to your wife/girlfriend next time she complains about some new parts that you bought...

It would be nice to be paid $200k for what we've done so far, but that's not even close to being realistic at all. We still bill conservatively for hours spent on the project and don't charge nearly as much per hour as most other shops since our overhead isn't crazy high, the shop is paid for.

theastronaut 08-04-2023 03:40 PM

Haven't taken the time to update the build thread in awhile. I got sick with Covid about a week ago and I'm not quite back to 100% yet so I figured this would be a good time to start catching up on pics.


Hood welded together 100%. I'm pretty happy with how all of the folds/overlaps came out. Not perfect but they'll be really nice after bodwork and seam sealer.

https://i.imgur.com/QpJKXzKh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/P4IyqQ6h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yqSMFYUh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/C3yeoXWh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/NViJE3kh.jpg


With the braces in I was able to finish bodyworking the inner braces. On the front I used a long flexible spreader to pre-shape the filler and minimize how much sanding was needed.

https://i.imgur.com/HYbfQZMh.jpg


All of the smaller areas skimmed, blocked, and blended together.

https://i.imgur.com/3UB76rAh.jpg


Rear brace bodywork roughed in and shot with epoxy.

https://i.imgur.com/LKTjzRnh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5ik2ei7h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/I2mHPSAh.jpg


With the hood welded together I could bolt it back on for final test fitting, except the hinges weren't quite cooperating. Taking all of the play out of all of the joints meant that the angle of the hood mounting pad had to be exactly the same angle as the mounting point on the hood brace when the hood is closed and the hinges are adjusted to the correct height. There is no way to adjust this angle, except by altering the center to center length of the link that connects the two main arms and keeps them in sync. Apparently the hinges were sloppy enough from the factory that this wasn't an issue.

I noticed that aftermarket billet hinges for other cars had an adjustable link, but there is no room for that on F100 hinges, so I had to come up with another option. The pins that hold the link were fixed in place, so I knocked the pins out and machined new pins with an eccentric end and a slotted head so I could adjust the eccentric with a small screwdriver, then lock it down with a lock nut.

https://i.imgur.com/xCyL6Yfh.jpg


I forgot to take pics of the whole process, but I turned down 3/4" rod on one side to 1/4-28" and made a matching threaded aluminum sleeve that would fit in my boring head for the mill (I bought a new lathe and don't have it up and running yet). With the aluminum end clamped in the boring head, I could offset the head and turn the end down to make the offset locating pin for the link.

https://i.imgur.com/S1L33Plh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/PAqZI5Vh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/YdZKZBth.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bn4jKT4h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1vSJdJ8h.jpg


Range of adjustment-

https://i.imgur.com/Tbz18clh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VDQodg8h.jpg

theastronaut 08-04-2023 04:49 PM

Moving to the fender fitment. We bought a pair of aftermarket fenders since the originals were rusty. They're well made from 18g, or at least as well made as originals but... original fitment left a lot to be desired. The top of these, and the tops of original fender are too flat compared to the shape of the door which makes the gap between the cowl and fender, and hood and fender look off. The door has a deep concave shape under the body line stamping but the fender is only about 2/3 as deep in comparison. After looking at the repop fenders, the originals, and other trucks at shows I decided to cut the fender tops off and make new pieces that are shaped correctly.

https://i.imgur.com/lS2Eu55h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yt10YWuh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uqqKFsZh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mRhIDSrh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hkTX1HIh.jpg


Checking the fender top with aluminum c-channel to see how far off the edge of the fender is. Notice that there is a kink in the fender top, its not a smooth curve from front to back, and how the rear edge being too flat makes the fender fall away from the much more concave door edge.

https://i.imgur.com/ZdDdLjSh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/36hDRMhh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qHPbLR2h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RzQIzWTh.jpg


Top cut off, making a rough pattern to cut new tops out of 18g.

https://i.imgur.com/w4tKeAlh.jpg


I bent a 1/4" strip of 18g into the correct shape that the fender top needed to be to match the door's shape and be tall enough to close up the gap between the hood/cowl and fender top. This was traced on steel plate to make Pullmax dies. I also made a second set of dies out of plastic with less curve top to bottom that matched the fender profile at the front of the fender.

https://i.imgur.com/Mn4SEKSh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/DrILjBUh.jpg


Making a test run on scrap to dial in the dies. After a couple of full depth passes to shape the blank, I use 220 grit on the top and bottom of the scrap piece and black out the dies with sharpie marker to find the tight/loose areas on the dies. Tight areas can pinch and stretch the metal you're shaping which adds the wrong shape and can add a weird twist to the panel you're shaping, and loose areas don't add enough shape.

https://i.imgur.com/zdY8sCkh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Nl8bDt3h.jpg


New vs old fender shape. To make the panel, I bent an edge 90* on brake, then used that edge as a guide in the Pullmax. I made full length, full depth passes with the plastic dies first, then switched to the deeper steel dies and ran those full depth along the back 1/3rd of the panel, then used the lower adjuster to fade the full depth shape into the shallower profile at the front of the panel.

https://i.imgur.com/yxzrnEKh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BdORahVh.jpg


The very tip still wasn't as sharp as I wanted it but I was afraid to make the Pullmax dies any sharper out of fear that a sharper die would stretch or puncture the edge of the panel. So I made a pair of dies to use in the arbor press to sharpen the edge by hand.

https://i.imgur.com/KojsUzuh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/93FsKIHh.jpg



Before/after top edge sharpening.

https://i.imgur.com/wxV2jIih.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6z7LUWuh.jpg

theastronaut 08-23-2023 10:31 AM

Since the outside of the fender was too flat, the inner brace was also flat so it wouldn't clear the added depth of the new fender top.

https://i.imgur.com/4CKfbQLh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/MCRWylSh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/KRQcFf5h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/pcyMyChh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uqiFvsHh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/kOAcStUh.jpg


I used tuck shrinks and the shrinker to match the curve of the fender top to the hood and cowl profile.

https://i.imgur.com/NJQZtZih.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ZqEznzDh.jpg



Folding the inner flange over after getting the curve correct.

https://i.imgur.com/mv9WCGuh.jpg



Reshaping the inner brace to match the hood/cowl curve. You can see the incorrect shape with a kink in it in the first two pics.

https://i.imgur.com/n41bZiYh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9Zk28NHh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Nuxg2IFh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/lhFexYVh.jpg



Initial test fit.

https://i.imgur.com/luLkrolh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/aJxCPQ9h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/g3er4HDh.jpg



Since the fender bottom didn't have to match the height of the door bottom or rocker bottom (door bottom isn't established yet) and the top is all new so it's height can be adjusted, that let me move the rear of the fender around until the rear edge was parallel to the door with the correct gap. I can match the new door bottom edge to the fender bottom when I make a new door bottom.

https://i.imgur.com/CbKpFgSh.jpg



Checking the inner brace height vs where the new fender top needs to be with string to see if the brace is too tall or too short.

https://i.imgur.com/LH0AcAzh.jpg

theastronaut 08-23-2023 02:04 PM

With the fender top roughed in I wanted to address some issues with the factory fender mounting points before welding the new top on. The stock method of fastening the fenders uses clip in U-Nuts, which don't sit flat on the flange. That makes shimming the panel for alignment inconsistent, and the area the clip inserts into can flex since there are two openings for the clip- not a lot of solid metal supporting the clip. I want the mounting points to be as solid as possible so the panel alignment can't move around once the truck is on the road and the panel attachment points are under stress.

https://i.imgur.com/Kb0Hc4Qh.jpg


After bolting the fender down using the stock clips the panel is warped around the clip. Having the fender on and off during the mock up/fit stage really made it obvious how inconsistent the panels go together, especially when adding shims into the mounting points to dial in panel flushness or gaps.

https://i.imgur.com/2BNHizjh.jpg



It also warps the panels that the fender was bolted to, again making shimming the panels apart inconsistent. There's a flat dolly held behind the hole to show how warped it is, which also was warping thin shims.

https://i.imgur.com/qLo9dB2h.jpg


To fix this, I cut out the whole area and welded in 1/8" plate with 3/8" nuts welded in the back side. The mounting face is dead flat this way, it won't flex, and the larger hardware can be locked down much tighter to keep the panels from shifting once it's being driven. Shims also fit dead flat each time the panel is test fit for consistent fit every test fit. Once the fender fitment (along with all other panels) is finalized I can make a chart of each mounting point to record each shim stack height, so during final assembly there is no guesswork needed to get the panels back where they were.

https://i.imgur.com/i6K3400h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vlu6kLyh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/h3Tfzazh.jpg



The fender bottom mounting tab on the cab had been slotted for more adjustment range and was just made out of a couple of layers of sheetmetal so it was pretty flimsy. After getting the fender in the correct position it still needed more slotting to clear the bolt.

https://i.imgur.com/te4C0g8h.jpg



I cut it off and welded on 1/8 plate to make a stronger mounting point and to reduce the hole size to just what was needed so a huge fender washer isn't needed to find metal to clamp down on.


https://i.imgur.com/hZcJk2Zh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/PGjFeeQh.jpg



Bolt head cut off, sharpened to a point to mark the new hole location.

https://i.imgur.com/lKdfIFwh.jpg


I'll go back and add a couple of gussets around the bolt hole to make it even stiffer.

https://i.imgur.com/8tlkcjnh.jpg



The upper rear mounting point is impossible to reach to add or take out shims, so the whole fender has to be removed and shims taped in place to change the shim stack, but with the stock clip wobbling around shimming was never consistent so it was difficult to get the top fitting flush to the door. The bolt goes in from an access door inside the kick panels, so I drilled another hole just under the stock hole and welded in a nut to make a threaded adjuster to move the panel in or out. The fender has a 1/8" stainless pad welded onto the brace for the adjuster screw to rest against- I can leave it bare metal without having to worry about it rusting. Leaving it bare also means there won't be any coating that can chip out later and alter the fender to door flushness.

https://i.imgur.com/3zvTy8dh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hX0wbyvh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/tTperWLh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XjnI6m9h.jpg

KO1960 08-24-2023 09:52 PM

Wow. Great stuff. Is it "easier" to remake the fender top, than try to massage the repop fender?

theastronaut 08-25-2023 12:33 PM


Originally Posted by KO1960 (Post 20954482)
Wow. Great stuff. Is it "easier" to remake the fender top, than try to massage the repop fender?

Some issues can be fixed without cutting the whole area out, like I did with the grill opening, but the fender tops were so far off that the only good way to fix them was to cut them off and remake them in the correct shape. Body filler would have worked to build out to the correct shape and many shops that don't do extensive metalwork have to resort to that when making gaps and fitment perfect, but I wouldn't want that much filler built up on a panel edge. There are tons of show cars with lots of filler to make panel fitment perfect and that works fine for pampered show cars, but I don't believe in using that much filler on anything that will be driven, especially not on edges of panels.

theastronaut 01-02-2024 03:23 PM

I ran into door seal fitment issues at the a-pillar. I wanted to go ahead and install the seals so they could break-in/settle, and to have them in place when finishing up final flush fitment tweaks before filler work starts. They push the panel out slightly so they need to be in place and settled when final adjustments and block sanding are carried out, otherwise the panels wouldn't be flush when it's assembled for the final time. I'll use wide masking tape over them during bodywork to keep overspray and filler off them so the same seals can be used for final assembly.

Earlier in the thread I posted that I had to make some hinge pocket tweaks to adjust the door hinges outward enough to make the door frame flush with the a-pillar. This made the seal have a few spots that didn't touch the pillar when the door was closed. The seals were also pretty lumpy which didn't help, which was remedied with a heat gun.

https://i.imgur.com/iNk8lU5h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/t4MhrBCh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yoYsgo2h.jpg



The seals were temporarily held in place with a thin bead of Dekaseal.

https://i.imgur.com/IrM1JTlh.jpg



With a light held behind the pillar you can see light is coming through the gaps.

https://i.imgur.com/GAk1y5yh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Dk6hv4ph.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cF4FJv7h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vd6SRCJh.jpg



The starting point- cleaned with a wire brush on a drill to prep for welding and epoxy. I trimmed a piece of 1/16" steel to weld on top of the original flange.

https://i.imgur.com/YmezFUNh.jpg



1/16" layer welded on, prepped for epoxy primer. Notice the slight gap left on the outside and upper edges to allow for seam sealer.

https://i.imgur.com/Y3HWM9Ph.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/thufI4Qh.jpg



After the epoxy cured for a few days I applied filler to get the surfaces 100% flat and smooth. The inside corner edges were not filled to allow for seam sealer later on after more epoxy is sprayed. Leaving the edges unfilled will allow for any flexing that might happen, and seam sealer is soft enough to flex without cracking. I'm not a fan of jambs that are 100% smoothed with filler; cleanly shaped seams with cleanly applied seam sealer looks more detailed and allows for flex.

The door seal fit was checked again with the light, and with no light showing I used a strip of paper about 2" wide to check that the seal had adequate pressure against the jamb.

https://i.imgur.com/1UYm7N0h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vElsdKzh.jpg



This gap looks a bit rough since I was just trying to make the seal fit for now. There is a factory seam underneath here that I didn't want to fill over, but I wanted the transition from one section to the other to be smooth and level. I'll use a 1/16" thick piece of plastic in this gap and fill against it to make a consistent gap width, radius those edges so it looks stamped, then fill it with seam sealer for flexibility. Might have some people questioning the use of filler in jambs... all show cars are done this way (usually with the seams filled over) but shops usually don't show these details because of the negative connotation often associated with filler. Figured I'd post all the details and not hide anything, and show the reasoning behind what I'm doing so people can see that filler used correctly has no drawbacks.

https://i.imgur.com/H5GR8ogh.jpg

stonewalljac 01-02-2024 04:10 PM

Great work as always! This is one of the many problems I had with mine. The door and the body hole was very er-regular. Fitting the door to the body at the cowl left a gap in the seal at the top of the door. I questioned the size of the aftermarket gaskets in comparison to the OEM gaskets. I think these repops may be small.

theastronaut 01-02-2024 05:45 PM


Originally Posted by stonewalljac (Post 21084903)
Great work as always! This is one of the many problems I had with mine. The door and the body hole was very er-regular. Fitting the door to the body at the cowl left a gap in the seal at the top of the door. I questioned the size of the aftermarket gaskets in comparison to the OEM gaskets. I think these repops may be small.

Thanks! Which reproduction seals did you use? These are from Dennis Carpenter and fit well, and I'm sure they'd seal up just fine on a truck with original door fitment. We've had a ton of C10s in the shop with doors that are very hard to close due to the aftermarket seals being made too thick, even after trying multiple vendor's seals so it's nice that these fit and allow the door to close easily.

theastronaut 01-02-2024 06:25 PM

Building the lower door skins. I started by making templates of the cab corner and fender bottom so I can match the skin to the adjacent panels.

https://i.imgur.com/SfDshTdh.jpg



The inner door flange was marked and trim to make room for the outer skin.

https://i.imgur.com/Q6Yw9Imh.jpg



Skin shaped on the english wheel using an inner tube on the upper wheel to make the top to bottom curve without adding any crown front to rear. I did make a few passes without the inner tube to add a slight amount of front to rear crown to match the shape above the patch.

https://i.imgur.com/ZdxuXZWh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/UfON7IAh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Fbu3QAOh.jpg



Lower edge bent in the brake as far as possible.

https://i.imgur.com/ITO5VAMh.jpg


Using a slapper to take it from this angle to nearly flat.

https://i.imgur.com/PDu4Xe3h.jpg


Pullmax with delrin dies leftover from the fender top, with a strip of 1/16" thick metal as a spacer so the flange isn't fully flattened. This leaves enough room for the skin to slide over the inner flange but leaves minimal hammer/dolly work to make the hem snug on the flange. Also minimizes the change of stretching the flange when hammer/dollying the hemmed flange flat.

https://i.imgur.com/kTypkhoh.jpg



Test fit at the correct height to match the fender bottom and cab corner.

https://i.imgur.com/mrXDBXyh.jpg



Scribing the fold lines using a tool that references the fender edge for a consistent gap.

https://i.imgur.com/gAzCH1Wh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GjbTXDih.jpg



Establishing the fold on the bead roller.

https://i.imgur.com/UaGlOzCh.jpg



Test fit. The door needs to be adjusted back a hair to even out the gaps front and rear.

https://i.imgur.com/eOVnOKfh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/xlAAk5Ch.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/PvrgSrfh.jpg



Overlapping the blacked out original skin to scribe the cut line.

https://i.imgur.com/D3lUwnch.jpg



After cutting, zero gap except a slight amount at the outer edges for tweaking the flushness with a thin pry tool- no rear access due to the inner flange.

https://i.imgur.com/Zp6S7roh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CkjuVi9h.jpg

theastronaut 01-02-2024 07:14 PM

To weld the skin on, I started with a few tacks. I used a piece of aluminum c-channel to show the low spots that are created when welds shrink, since it flexes in an even arc. Each weld was planished/stretched via hammer on dolly stretching until the arc returned. In the spots I over-stretched and made a high spot, the next round of weld dots would shrink the high spot back into shape. I've mentioned hammer on dolly stretching to reverse weld shrinkage before, but showing it with c-channel gives a clear visual on what's going on.


The low spots before planishing.

https://i.imgur.com/iark6tQh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ZajiqHSh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/niE6RrVh.jpg



No low spot in between the welds.

https://i.imgur.com/Z8TzUOSh.jpg



After planishing the first and second rounds of weld dots- the arc is restored.

https://i.imgur.com/vt104P0h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vs5Y599h.jpg



This one was over-planished which made a high spot. Welding directly beside it shrunk it down to the correct arc again. Welding directly beside another weld dot lets the previous weld act as a heat sink so the HAZ isn't quite as big for less overall shrinkage. I can keep the HAZ down to about 3/8" wide using this method.

https://i.imgur.com/DqjFpnKh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/03PAgeoh.jpg



Thin pry tool used to align the flushness of both panels.

https://i.imgur.com/8aMaspHh.jpg



Flange detail.

https://i.imgur.com/hzuPm63h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/OItoKiBh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/02MW9A8h.jpg



After way more weld dots and a lot of hammer/dolly work I had the overall shape pretty well where I wanted it. I used the shrinking disk to pull down the high spots along the seam, and there was a high spot from top to bottom about 6" inward of the front edge which gave the door too much crown front to rear and made the front of the door dive in at the fender edge.

https://i.imgur.com/HBxT31lh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bM8jfwJh.jpg



Cleaning the fingerprint rust off with a wire brush before DA sanding the skin.

https://i.imgur.com/1CfCFgJh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/YJzQ6Cvh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/EOo45kHh.jpg



Wiped down with mineral spirits to check the reflection. Not perfect, nowhere near metalfinished but should be good enough to be skim coated. I'll still probably need to do some final tweaking to the overall contour to get an even arc across the fender and door once it's reassembled.

https://i.imgur.com/Tsw5BL7h.jpg

stonewalljac 01-02-2024 09:29 PM


Originally Posted by theastronaut (Post 21085004)
Thanks! Which reproduction seals did you use? These are from Dennis Carpenter and fit well, and I'm sure they'd seal up just fine on a truck with original door fitment. We've had a ton of C10s in the shop with doors that are very hard to close due to the aftermarket seals being made too thick, even after trying multiple vendor's seals so it's nice that these fit and allow the door to close easily.

Mine were from Dennis Carpenter also. The problem I was experiencing was more of a width issue than a height. If you placed the seal back in the pocket of the door where it is supposed be glued it was a long way from the edge of the door., which meant the gap around the door and the opening had to be really tight for the seal to fill up the gap. Which these Ford seem to be pretty large in places.

theastronaut 01-03-2024 09:40 AM


Originally Posted by stonewalljac (Post 21085245)
Mine were from Dennis Carpenter also. The problem I was experiencing was more of a width issue than a height. If you placed the seal back in the pocket of the door where it is supposed be glued it was a long way from the edge of the door., which meant the gap around the door and the opening had to be really tight for the seal to fill up the gap. Which these Ford seem to be pretty large in places.

The gaps around the door looking from the inside with the door closed are all over the place on these truck, and there is really no way to fix it.

RB-1963-F250 01-03-2024 10:08 AM


Originally Posted by theastronaut (Post 21085622)
The gaps around the door looking from the inside with the door closed are all over the place on these truck, and there is really no way to fix it.

Ranchers, construction workers and forestry companies didn't worry much about door gaps and such and neither did Ford. :D

Great build and thread.

stonewalljac 01-03-2024 11:11 AM


Originally Posted by theastronaut (Post 21085622)
The gaps around the door looking from the inside with the door closed are all over the place on these truck, and there is really no way to fix it.

As you have done many times, It seems one would have to make new metal and cover the existing metal to close it up in places. Then the other issue becomes the thickness of the doors and the way the door hinge swings requires a large hole to allow it to open without dragging somewhere LOL It never ends on these. I am so blown away with your truck. It will be something that Henry Ford NEVER made one like. But in his defense He made it for $1,800.00 out the door.

KO1960 01-03-2024 01:54 PM

Chasing the panel warpage with while tack welding must take some time. My experience as a pipe fitter is once the pipe and fitting are tacked in four places, then the joint can be fully welded with little distortion. I imagine that because of the thin material, you have to be very diligent about the shape. It's impressive how you are able to find solutions to the fitment problems. Keep the updates coming.

stonewalljac 01-03-2024 03:10 PM


Originally Posted by RB-1963-F250 (Post 21085651)
Ranchers, construction workers and forestry companies didn't worry much about door gaps and such and neither did Ford. :D

Great build and thread.

And neither did the rain! as many of them leaked all over the place.

RB-1963-F250 01-03-2024 04:04 PM


Originally Posted by stonewalljac (Post 21085974)
And neither did the rain! as many of them leaked all over the place.

Yeah, my 63 leaks like a sieve. :-X18

theastronaut 01-04-2024 12:06 PM


Originally Posted by stonewalljac (Post 21085725)
As you have done many times, It seems one would have to make new metal and cover the existing metal to close it up in places. Then the other issue becomes the thickness of the doors and the way the door hinge swings requires a large hole to allow it to open without dragging somewhere LOL It never ends on these. I am so blown away with your truck. It will be something that Henry Ford NEVER made one like. But in his defense He made it for $1,800.00 out the door.

My issue would be that the window frame would no longer be parallel between the inner edge nearest the window and outer edge against the cab opening, and that would look just as bad as an uneven gap. If you modified the a-pillar it would cause the same issue.



Originally Posted by KO1960 (Post 21085901)
Chasing the panel warpage with while tack welding must take some time. My experience as a pipe fitter is once the pipe and fitting are tacked in four places, then the joint can be fully welded with little distortion. I imagine that because of the thin material, you have to be very diligent about the shape. It's impressive how you are able to find solutions to the fitment problems. Keep the updates coming.

Yes, every weld causes shrinking, and on a panel with crown in both directions it will pull the crown out locally, leaving a low spot. If I had welded it all the way across without planishing there would be severe distortion along/around the weld seam and a huge low spot across the whole door bottom. Doing 3-4 spots at a time then planishing after each round of welds makes it easier to control the overall shape of the panel and maintain the correct amount of crown in the panel. The c-channel is a very good way to make sure the panel has a consistent arc front to back so you can see if your welds are still shrunken or if you planished/stretched too much with the hammer/dolly. Its time consuming to do it this way but it saves time compared to trying to do all the welding first, then working the distortion out later. I've been practicing oxy/acetylene welding which is a much softer weld so its easier to work out shrinkage, but I'm not good enough yet to try it on a panel like the door bottom.

stonewalljac 01-04-2024 12:37 PM


Originally Posted by theastronaut (Post 21086874)
My issue would be that the window frame would no longer be parallel between the inner edge nearest the window and outer edge against the cab opening, and that would look just as bad as an uneven gap. If you modified the a-pillar it would cause the same issue.




Yes, every weld causes shrinking, and on a panel with crown in both directions it will pull the crown out locally, leaving a low spot. If I had welded it all the way across without planishing there would be severe distortion along/around the weld seam and a huge low spot across the whole door bottom. Doing 3-4 spots at a time then planishing after each round of welds makes it easier to control the overall shape of the panel and maintain the correct amount of crown in the panel. The c-channel is a very good way to make sure the panel has a consistent arc front to back so you can see if your welds are still shrunken or if you planished/stretched too much with the hammer/dolly. Its time consuming to do it this way but it saves time compared to trying to do all the welding first, then working the distortion out later. I've been practicing oxy/acetylene welding which is a much softer weld so its easier to work out shrinkage, but I'm not good enough yet to try it on a panel like the door bottom.

I worked at a Cadilliac Dealer back in the 70's. and when they did a quarter or even a roof panel. they used Oxy/acetylene and brazed them on long seams. I was never good enough to run a long seam.


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