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-   1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum41/)
-   -   1949 F4 V8 to Mercedes diesel build thread (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1328924-1949-f4-v8-to-mercedes-diesel-build-thread.html)

harleymsn 11-17-2014 06:12 PM


Originally Posted by 49fordv8f4 (Post 14828275)
Joe, Thanks for the reply. That is actually the T9 out of my '47 COE that I sold. I'm just using it to mock up my engine mounts. I have a T98 rebuilt to go in when I install everything permanently. I have the Brownie mounted behind the 4-speed where the carrier bearing was. I will have a short driveshaft between it and the 4-speed.
Thanks again, Mark

I would be very interested in seeing that set up. I have a spicer 5831 that I have been looking at mounting in a similar position in my F5. I still have the T9 but I have a T98 out of a COE and considering a swap if I can modify the shifter without too much complication.

tinman52 11-17-2014 06:23 PM


Originally Posted by harleymsn (Post 14828829)
I still have the T9 but I have a T98 out of a COE and considering a swap if I can modify the shifter without too much complication.

Find a shifter from a regular truck and drop it in. Or heat yours up with a torch and bend it any way you want it.

49fordv8f4 11-18-2014 06:35 PM

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...1a98e20bf5.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...31e3ec1e1f.jpg

Joe, The shift handle in the T9 COE transmission looks like it you could cut a new notch for the alignment pin in the ball and turn it 180 and stick it back in the transmission. You may be able to do the same with the T98 stick.
The Brownie I'm using is a 5531, which I think is a earlier version of your 5831. For the front mount, I made a foot to slip over the front bearing retainer with a base on it with the same bolt pattern as the foot on the rear or the 4-speed. I modified a rear transmission crossmember so I could bolt it in the frame. The rear of the Brownie has a piece of steel angle bolted to the mount holes on the transmission. I bolted a short piece of steel angle to the inside of the frame on each side, and used flathead front motor mounts on those to set the rear of the transmission on. I don't know if your 5831 front mount is on the bearing retainer like the 5531. I modified the yokes on both ends to take the 4-bolt flange that is used on the back of the 4-speed. You can see that on the photo of the front. Also if you look just to the left of the yoke on the front photo you can see the rear mount bolted to the frame with the angle setting on it.
Mark

49fordv8f4 11-18-2014 06:53 PM

GB, How does the Cummins do in your F350 for power? Looks like the HP and torque of my Mercedes and your Cummins is real similar. I would think the '59 would be a little heavier than my F4, maybe not. I have an Eaton two-speed axle from my '47 COE that I can put in the truck if I find I need to split the gears. I will try it without first.
I enjoyed your build thread on your diesel swap. You did a very nice job on that :-X22. I've always liked diesels also. My other Ford is an E250 Club Wagon with a Banks turbocharged 6.9 diesel and a C6 automatic.
Glad you are feeling better! Don't overdo it.
Thanks, Mark

harleymsn 11-18-2014 07:05 PM


Originally Posted by 49fordv8f4 (Post 14831819)
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...1a98e20bf5.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...31e3ec1e1f.jpg

Joe, The shift handle in the T9 COE transmission looks like it you could cut a new notch for the alignment pin in the ball and turn it 180 and stick it back in the transmission. You may be able to do the same with the T98 stick.

Yea, I thought about that, or possibly drilling a hole in the opposite side of the shifter housing for the pin and turning the shifter around.

Originally Posted by 49fordv8f4 (Post 14831819)
The Brownie I'm using is a 5531, which I think is a earlier version of your 5831. For the front mount, I made a foot to slip over the front bearing retainer with a base on it with the same bolt pattern as the foot on the rear or the 4-speed. I modified a rear transmission crossmember so I could bolt it in the frame. The rear of the Brownie has a piece of steel angle bolted to the mount holes on the transmission. I bolted a short piece of steel angle to the inside of the frame on each side, and used flathead front motor mounts on those to set the rear of the transmission on. I don't know if your 5831 front mount is on the bearing retainer like the 5531. I modified the yokes on both ends to take the 4-bolt flange that is used on the back of the 4-speed. You can see that on the photo of the front. Also if you look just to the left of the yoke on the front photo you can see the rear mount bolted to the frame with the angle setting on it.
Mark

The one you are using appears to be bigger than the one I have. I have all the mounting hardware for mine as pictured below except for the cross-member.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...55f7b45388.jpg

I was considering removing the cross-member that hold the carrier bearing and fab one with steel channel in it's place in a box fashion for both front and rear mounts.

GB SISSON 11-18-2014 07:38 PM

My 6at cummins is a bit unusual in their line. Built originally for generator use, then in the 80s they started building an automotive version that saw a lot of fleet use, taking the place of chev 292 inline sixes in Frito Lay and Mostly UPS vans. The good thing is it is indirect injected like the mercedes, and gets it's power in the higher rpm ranges like 3400 so it matches the power characteristics of the gasser and it's existing drivetrain. A friend has a watson aux transmission he said I could have, but looks like enough on my plate for the time being. I also need to know what the box actually is as far as gears and ratios etc. As long as I keep posting, you will know I'm being good and resting on the couch. It's really not as bad as I thought it was gonna be. :-X21

38 coupe 11-19-2014 06:15 PM

GB, side discussion: I have been gathering data on aux boxes for a while. If you know the model number I probably can tell you the gear ratios.

49fordv8f4 12-10-2014 05:39 PM

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...460033a796.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...41b7574fe0.jpg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...3ada90c7bc.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...7f647d67f7.jpg
I finished the oil cooler lines, the lower radiator air deflector, and mounted the horn today. I think I finally have everything in place where it needs to be. Now I can remove the inner fenders, radiator frame and engine so I can clean it all up and paint the pieces. Then everything can be reinstalled permanently :).
Mark

38 coupe 12-10-2014 06:41 PM

Thanks for the update with pictures.

GB SISSON 12-10-2014 06:49 PM

Thanks 38. I'm driving again, so I might get over to the guy's place this weekend.

christurney77 12-11-2014 05:34 AM

So, Mark.... Where do you plan to install your battery? I'm still toying around with this one.

49fordv8f4 12-11-2014 07:50 AM

Chris, In the last photo you can see the battery tray next to the injector pump and oil filter housing. I bought a 6 cylinder battery stand, mounts on the drivers side over the steering gearbox, and made a stainless steel battery tray to fit the Mercedes battery. I had replaced the battery in the Mercedes I pulled the engine out of about a year and a half ago, so I decided to use it.
Mark

christurney77 12-11-2014 09:10 AM

I figured that was what I was seeing. I'll look and see if I have enough real estate there. Been scratching my head where to locate the battery. The prime location has the exhaust running back.

http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/x...psdbd010cb.jpg

49fordv8f4 12-11-2014 09:41 AM

Ford moved the battery to the drivers side on the 6cyl because of the exhaust. On my '49 there is an indent on the drivers side inner fender for battery clearance, the '51-'52 F1 may be the same. The Mercedes battery is big, but I still had plenty of room for it.
Mark

49fordv8f4 01-04-2015 02:52 PM

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...edb4f51cfc.jpg

Here I have two bolts thru the bottom flange on each side. After I pull the engine I will be able to drill two holes thru the side of each side of the frame to finish bolting the crossmember in.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...3d09bfa798.jpg

I pulled the front axle out of the truck yesterday so I could drill the holes in the bottom flange of the frame for the engine crossmember. I needed to bolt the crossmember in place while the engine was setting on it. Now I can pull the engine and drill the rest of the crossmember bolt holes.

49fordv8f4 01-04-2015 02:58 PM

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...293b5f201a.jpg

Ray and 38 coupe. Here is a better photo of the front crossmember and transmission mount for the Brownie. Once I drill the holes thru the upper crossmember for the shift rods to pass thru, I will pull the transmission and crossmember out so I clean them up and paint them.
Mark

arctic y block 01-04-2015 03:13 PM

I love me a Brownie. So cool

Rimrock F1 01-04-2015 07:18 PM

Mark your truck is sure looking good. I'm a huge fan diesels.

Ibuildmyown 01-04-2015 07:55 PM

Glad to see something besides a small block chevy (common as mud) tucked in a cool old truck. Very nice.

49fordv8f4 01-04-2015 08:37 PM

Thanks Guys!
Mark

38 coupe 01-04-2015 10:01 PM


Originally Posted by 49fordv8f4 (Post 14965643)
Ray and 38 coupe. Here is a better photo of the front crossmember and transmission mount for the Brownie.
Mark

Thanks for the picture. That is a nice looking installation.

49fordv8f4 02-02-2015 05:46 PM

I made a little progress this past Saturday. I pulled the engine so I could finish bolting the new crossmember in place. When that's done I can repaint the front of the frame. While the engine is out I will change a number of leaking gaskets and clean it up really well. I will also drill the manifolds for the sender for the turbo boost gauge and the probe for the exhaust temp gauge. Tomorrow, my plan is to take my flywheel to Springfield Missouri to have it match balanced to the Mercedes flywheel and also drop my clutch and pressure plate off to have them rebuilt. I am taking three discs and four pressure plates, they told me they would look them over and rebuild the best one of each. Friday I took my six 19.5 wheels to the powder coater to have them done. I am having them coated in red to match the cab and hood since I am painting the fenders and the Ford script bed black. My youngest son is paying for 1/2 of the powder coating for my Christmas present:-X03. I will post pics of the wheels when I get them back in a couple of weeks, and of the engine when I get it back in.
Thanks, Mark

38 coupe 02-02-2015 06:27 PM

Sounds like good progress. I look forward to the pictures.

mechmagcn 02-03-2015 07:58 PM


Originally Posted by 49fordv8f4 (Post 15051044)
While the engine is out I will change a number of leaking gaskets and clean it up really well.

Good luck drying up a MB diesel, I've had 5 of them and they always leave their mark.
The install is looking great, glad to see someone else utilizing the MB diesel, they're cheap, plentiful and run forever.

49fordv8f4 02-03-2015 09:16 PM

Thanks, Fred I will post new photos as soon as I have something.
Jeff, Thanks for the kind words. I'm not sure that I can stop all the oil leaks, but maybe I can slow them down:-roll.
I dropped my clutch and pressure plate off today to have them rebuilt. I also dropped off my flywheels to have them match balanced. I should have everything back in a week or so.
Thanks again, Mark

CAMiniTruck 02-03-2015 10:57 PM


Originally Posted by 49fordv8f4 (Post 14750803)
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...72e2926920.jpg

This is a photo of the shut off valve that I made for the Mercedes engine. The Mercedes engine shuts off by vacuum. The valve fastened on the side is from the ignition switch in the donor car. The switch on the end is to complete the circuit for the starter button. This unit mounts in the hole in the dash for the choke cable. Turning on the key switch energizes the glow plugs for the diesel. Pulling out this knob closes the vacuum to the injector pump so the engine will run and completes the circuit for the starter button so the engine can be started. To shut off the engine, turn off the key switch and push in this knob.
Thanks, Mark

Kudos for a very slick solution!

49fordv8f4 02-04-2015 06:38 PM

CAMiniTruck, Thank you for the reply. Part of my reasoning for the switch on the end of the valve assembly, if for some reason the system lost vacuum, the truck could be started just by pushing the starter button since on a pre'52 truck it is energized all the time. My concern isn't that someone could steal it, but a child or someone accidently pushing the starter button and it starting in gear. I guess I could have used a '52 starter button and energized it with the ignition switch.
Thanks again, Mark

49fordv8f4 02-07-2015 08:34 PM

I picked up my flywheels this morning after having them match balanced. I am really glad that I marked the Mercedes flywheel for position before I took it off. Most everything that I have read says that the Mercedes flywheel is neutral balanced, but you should mark them just in case. Well, my Mercedes flywheel actually has several grams of inbalance. Now the Ford flywheel is balanced to match the Mercedes and properly marked so I can reinstall it correctly. As soon as I get my clutch and pressure plate back from the rebuilder and I get the engine cleaned up and resealed, I can reinstall it permanently.
Mark

arctic y block 02-08-2015 12:25 AM

Can't hardly wait for the Unveil. Gonna be so cool.
Bring it on.

49fordv8f4 02-08-2015 02:17 PM

Thanks! Arctic. I am getting anxious myself. I hope to hear it run real soon.
Mark

mechmagcn 02-08-2015 06:37 PM


Originally Posted by 49fordv8f4 (Post 14750803)
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...72e2926920.jpg

This is a photo of the shut off valve that I made for the Mercedes engine. The Mercedes engine shuts off by vacuum. The valve fastened on the side is from the ignition switch in the donor car. The switch on the end is to complete the circuit for the starter button. This unit mounts in the hole in the dash for the choke cable. Turning on the key switch energizes the glow plugs for the diesel. Pulling out this knob closes the vacuum to the injector pump so the engine will run and completes the circuit for the starter button so the engine can be started. To shut off the engine, turn off the key switch and push in this knob.
Thanks, Mark

When trying to figure out the question of the vacuum shutdown on my 53, I used the turbo overboost valve from the 84 300SD for the vacuum switch. You could also use an air toggle switch, which there is one hidden on my truck, just for security when parked in questionable places.

49fordv8f4 02-08-2015 07:29 PM

Jeff, Thanks for the reply. I hadn't thought about a hidden shut off valve, good idea, I will have to think on that some more.:-X22 Did you remove the ALDA on your diesel? I have mine adjusted to were I think it is actually disabled. It sure woke the car up when I adjusted it. I was told, IIRC, if I leave it on and remove the solenoid over boost valve you are talking about, to just run to line directly from the pressure sensor on the intake to the ALDA. Your thoughts?
Thanks again, Mark

christurney77 02-08-2015 09:04 PM

Mark,
My ALDA is not hooked up right now. It does smoke alot more when you mash the accelerator, but seems to have much more power. I still need to figure out how much vacuum I need to the transmission. It shifts really hard right now.

mechmagcn 02-09-2015 02:36 PM


Originally Posted by 49fordv8f4 (Post 15069851)
Jeff, Thanks for the reply. I hadn't thought about a hidden shut off valve, good idea, I will have to think on that some more.:-X22 Did you remove the ALDA on your diesel? I have mine adjusted to were I think it is actually disabled. It sure woke the car up when I adjusted it. I was told, IIRC, if I leave it on and remove the solenoid over boost valve you are talking about, to just run to line directly from the pressure sensor on the intake to the ALDA. Your thoughts?
Thanks again, Mark

The ALDA is backed off on my engine, never really saw the need for it, just there to appease the tree huggers.

mechmagcn 02-09-2015 02:39 PM


Originally Posted by christurney77 (Post 15070191)
Mark,
My ALDA is not hooked up right now. It does smoke alot more when you mash the accelerator, but seems to have much more power. I still need to figure out how much vacuum I need to the transmission. It shifts really hard right now.

Chris, on my swap I used a green and white vacuum orfice from the 300SD to soften the harsh shifts of the MB trans. It really wasn't that noticeable in the car because of the rubber dampened driveshaft.

arctic y block 02-09-2015 02:45 PM


Originally Posted by mechmagcn (Post 15072199)
The ALDA is backed off on my engine, never really saw the need for it, just there to appease the tree huggers.

It's great to see you hanging with this thread Jeff. I know your busy
with the wife and the place your putting together. But when it comes to
this engine and engine install than you are the man. I would love to put one in
my Bronco. But without a shop to work out of at my age it won't happen.
I am just giving praise where it is needed Jeff. You prolly know more about
this setup than the Factory ever will. I hope all is well with you and would
love to see ya come through here again.:-jammin I hope that was not a once in
a lifetime trip for you. And hope you can bring your wife next time.
Remember the camp ground when 70 Girl Scouts showed up and took
it over? Scared the hell out of both of us and couldn't get out of there
fast enough. Way to many hormones there for sure. Ruined our day.

mechmagcn 02-09-2015 03:29 PM


Originally Posted by arctic y block (Post 15072216)
Remember the camp ground when 70 Girl Scouts showed up and took
it over?

LOL Rich! That was a little scary!
Hope to make it back up north again someday, but getting my wife to come could be iffy. Her idea of ruffing it is watching black and white TV at the Holiday Inn. Plus she is freezing when its 70° out. :-(

arctic y block 02-09-2015 04:30 PM

Well jeff when it hits 70% up here it's a hot humid heat. She will be just fine.
Heck she can nuzzle the wood stove if'n she wants. I really would love to
see ya all again. No way I see of me ever making it back down there again.
Life is to good right here. But you know that.

mechmagcn 02-09-2015 05:20 PM


Originally Posted by arctic y block (Post 15072520)
Well jeff when it hits 70% up here it's a hot humid heat. She will be just fine.
Heck she can nuzzle the wood stove if'n she wants. I really would love to
see ya all again. No way I see of me ever making it back down there again.
Life is to good right here. But you know that.

Someday Rich, someday!

49fordv8f4 02-09-2015 05:34 PM

Jeff and Chris, Thanks for the replies. So, just disconnect the lines from the ALDA and intake manifold and plug the manifold hole? I guess I can use the hole in the manifold for my boost pressure gauge.
Mark


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