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Originally Posted by ctubutis
(Post 10746362)
The poor performance is generally the result of low compression combined with retarded cam timing.
You'd fix that during a rebuild, these are actually some of Ford's best-ever engines. To clean out the clogged passageways, that'd all come out during what is known as boiling - basically, soak the parts in a heated-up acid bath. |
When I rebuilt mine in January, I was into it a grand with machine work and parts.
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And, the 400 is the V8 version of the famous 300 (even has one or two hairs more stroke) so I'd put any rebuilding efforts into a 400.
But that's just me. :) I spent around $3,300 just at the machinist for my 400 and I'm guessing close to another $1k on surrounding stuff to complete the project. But I wanted to find a good machinist whom I felt I could trust and who knows the idiosyncrasies of the 400 (not just somebody who knows how to drill holes), the guy I found easily fits the requirements and I don't mind paying him for his expertise. |
Originally Posted by ctubutis
(Post 10746547)
And, the 400 is the V8 version of the famous 300 (even has one or two hairs more stroke) so I'd put any rebuilding efforts into a 400.
But that's just me. :) I spent around $3,300 just at the machinist for my 400 and I'm guessing close to another $1k on surrounding stuff to complete the project. But I wanted to find a good machinist whom I felt I could trust and who knows the idiosyncrasies of the 400 (not just somebody who knows how to drill holes), the guy I found easily fits the requirements and I don't mind paying him for his expertise. |
Originally Posted by Fordzilla80
(Post 10746781)
Is part of that $3K because of your tainted 71 block?
I got a replacement D7TE block from some guy on CL, the guy had his own 400 project and had amassed too many parts so I bought a block and two somewhat-rebuilt heads from him for something around $75 total. :) The $3,300 I'd have to go look at the paperwork to list out exactly how that came to be but I felt better doing things "right" than not. This guy builds race car engines, he's not inexpensive. But he knows Ford engines (calls his business Blue Oval Performance Engineering) and that, to me, was worth it. Don't get scared, you don't have to spend this much money to end up with something decent. But ya have to find a machinist you can trust, and you'll learn there are different methods that can be used to get at the same result. Go hang out at your local drag strip or oval track, get a Pit Pass and go talk to some of the guys, you'll get pointers on who's good and who to avoid. Might also ask at auto parts stores if you can find such a store with "older," more experienced employees and not snot-nosed teenagers. |
Originally Posted by ctubutis
(Post 10746916)
Not really.
I got a replacement D7TE block from some guy on CL, the guy had his own 400 project and had amassed too many parts so I bought a block and two somewhat-rebuilt heads from him for something around $75 total. :) The $3,300 I'd have to go look at the paperwork to list out exactly how that came to be but I felt better doing things "right" than not. This guy builds race car engines, he's not inexpensive. But he knows Ford engines (calls his business Blue Oval Performance Engineering) and that, to me, was worth it. Don't get scared, you don't have to spend this much money to end up with something decent. But ya have to find a machinist you can trust, and you'll learn there are different methods that can be used to get at the same result. Go hang out at your local drag strip or oval track, get a Pit Pass and go talk to some of the guys, you'll get pointers on who's good and who to avoid. Might also ask at auto parts stores if you can find such a store with "older," more experienced employees and not snot-nosed teenagers. By no means will I let machine shop costs scare me away. The good thing is, my dad was into the whole circle track thing, so he has already done the machine shop footwork for me, and I know who to call, who to avoid, etc. |
Right now i have about $2500 into my 400. I had it bored .030 over, new crank (i think it was ground or polished too) new pistons, cam, lifters, heads, timing chain, most of the stuff on the front of the engine, bearings, seals/gaskets, and carb. I am still about $450 away from having it in running condition.
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3 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by Gary Lewis
(Post 10745458)
No, that wasn't factory, nor reputable repair shop. I've pulled many a Ford head in the last few months and none were put on w/RTV. Most were factory, but some were done by rebuilders. But no RTV.
Here's what Ford's 1981 Shop Manual had so say about head gaskets (emphasis is Ford's): A specially treated composition gasket is used. Do not apply sealer to a composition gasket. Page 21-21-20 for reference.I agree with you. Last night though I was reading and found this caption on a picture. My gasket only had sealant at the front and rear oblong passage. Actually the rear passage was was only about 1/2 blocked. Today I shall contemplate in my finely tuned hammock when I'm not cleaning up the block/head mating surface. |
Originally Posted by rbalsinger
(Post 10745434)
The link describes and pictures just what I saw after pulling my head. Not the channels across the top but the oblong channels at each end of the block were plugged with what appears to be the same material as seen in the link.
I am the just the second owner and the original owner never mentioned any kind of repair like this. I have all the records way back to the first oil change in 1983 and see no repairs like this. Can we assume this is a factory technique? Your vehemence of reply has certainly impressed me enough to never do this, or at least not let you know if I do! :-X19 Thanks for the guidance Rob I'm sorry, I was in my garage all day yesterday and was posting from a laptop in between cleanup activities in there. I agree with Gary, there is no way the factory nor any reputable mechanic would use silicone rubber on head gaskets, that's just wrong and my pictures show why. I'm just trying to keep you from making the same mistake as the "rebuilder" of my previous engine did. :) |
Originally Posted by rbalsinger
(Post 10747384)
I agree with you. Last night though I was reading and found this caption on a picture.
My gasket only had sealant at the front and rear oblong passage. Actually the rear passage was was only about 1/2 blocked. Today I shall contemplate in my finely tuned hammock when I'm not cleaning up the block/head mating surface. I don't know what engine you've taken apart but that book doesn't seem to apply to anything installed from the factory into 80-86 trucks that I'm aware of. For my 400, I've got a book by Tom Monroe to help as well as the Ford factory engine shop manual. Anyway.... I think this will become clear to you once you get new head gaskets and install them on the block. You see, the heads can be installed onto either bank of the engine, there is no concept of "left head" or "right head." But the water flows in a very specific path, and so the head gaskets are used to block some passageways while allowing others to be open. (I'm sure you've read enough at this point to know that proper orientation & installation of the head gaskets is key to successfully putting this back together. :) ) The 400 (M-block) heads get their water supply from one end of the block (I believe the front) with the return path going into the opposite end of the block. In the Windsor engines, the intake manifold is the water supply to the heads and the outlet is to the block. Entirely different designs. Anyhow, this picture: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/a...1&d=1314534052 This looks like one of the passages that gets intentionally blocked by the head gaskets; that blockage you see there looks like a buildup of rust & corrosion where a gasket is intentionally blocking it, this buildup happens over time and is made worse by not regularly changing the coolant. But it's entirely normal to see that. What I'm trying to point out in my pictures is how errantly-applied RTV gets squeezed into and blocks some of the passageways in the head gaskets, this is NOT a good thing and is wrong to do. |
If the picture and caption came out of the book that is depicted there, read the sub-title. It's for FE and FT engines. (When were they discontinued?).
You can't just automatically apply anything in that book to the newer 335 or 385 series engines. As years went by, Ford engineers found better ways of doing things, so for your 400M, I would recommend obtaining a manual that is for that series of engine. (335 series) |
This is what I have for my 400:
Amazon.com: How to Rebuild Ford V-8 Engines (9780895860361): Tom Monroe: Books http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...SH20_OU01_.jpg And this from Ford: http://www.lloydsautolit.com/product...ages/6741.jpeg Available at automotive book places (including HERE) and sometimes eBay. |
But, the shop manual set is 2 volumes - that one on engines and the other, and much thicker, being on everything else. Be sure to get both.
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Thanks
Your right about me finding materials specific to the task.
FYI the engine is a 83 460 with about 120K. The only reason I have the head off is to repair the ex manifold bolt that has broken again. Last time the repair was made with head on and the job wasn't great or long lasting. this time I had the shop repair the head and am planning on better results. Thanks. I am learning here. Rob |
Put a deposit down on a F-250 4x4 frame. Hope to have it by the end of the week...
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