OK, so got a wild hair this weekend and thought I would tinker with the truck this weekend. Had a couple silver dollor sized spots on the hood that I wanted to see if I could 'fix' them with sanding and priming.
It was my first attempt and thought, what the krap, not like its going to get any worse.
There were 7 spots and here is what I did.
cleaned with wax and oil remover.
Knocked the rust out with Angle grinder with serface prep pads corse, med and fine (which wasn't so fine).
cleaned with wax and oil remover.
There was a noticable dip in surface level, so I knocked that down with some 100 grit sand paper.
cleaned with wax and oil remover.
wet sand with 400 grit sand paper
cleaned with wax and oil remover.
oulined with tape and covered surrounding area with paper.
3 coats of spray can filler primer, 10 minute between coats, one hour drying time after last coat.
removed tape and paper (left a hard edge, not sure what I'm supposed to do about that)
sand with 400 grit sand paper, trying to get the hard edge down and smooth out the surface dips.
coated with spray can primer sealer.
and thats where it stands now.

Admittedly, I'm new, but you got to start somewhere.
I'm not blown away by results, definitly need practice.
I can see where the spray can primers may not be the best option, but its what I've got space for. Its a family garage so full on spray gun primer is not the best option for me.
Other than that, what should I have done differently? (remember, I'm a noobie so go easy)

The more I worked on the hood, the more I kept thinking to myself, maybe this would be easier take the whole thing down to metel sand, and prime?
Which brings me to my question of the day.
Is it possible/advisable to sand and prime using spray can primers and store/reattach the panel for long periods of time? say, several months or possibly a year or more?

Frist project, rest of hood, maybe quarter panels. they are in good shape so it would be nice to get them protected before things start to go bad.
Second project is the bed rails. I have a small area that might need a patch, won't know until I take the sander to it, but it would be nice just to sand the whole gard rail and then coat them with primer until I can paint the truck (LONG TIME AWAY).
Third, tailgate.
Fourth, complete bed, inside and underside.

Your thoughts?

 

This is one of those posts where I am frustrated because the poster does not indicate their geographical location in their profile. If you are afraid that someone will look you up and steal your truck, then put your GENERAL location, e.g. NorthEast Texas.

Depending upon your local climate, you would be best served by going ahead and putting some sort of topcoat over the good work that you've already spent time on. Primer products, with the possible exception of Epoxy Primer, are very porous and you will have trapped rust underneath all this in short order.

You are on the right track and as you point out, you have to start somewhere, both with the truck and your skill development process.

Again, your climate plays into this, but going to bare metal, using a metal prep or rust converter(again climate knowledge would help) and then coating with Epoxy Primer followed by topcoats would be your best form of repair.

Good luck,

 

couple of comments. I am absolutely sold on using a rust converter like ospho or por 15 metal ready. Rust is occuring at a molecular level which means clean looking metal can be infected...rust also has a structure that is difficult to cover. If you knock off all scale and loose rust and convert the metal then seal .... your worry free.

Epoxy primer or sealer and topcoat. Epoxy primer has had good success in marine apps and seals fairly well though topping it would be better.

I'll be posting some pics here shortly that shows rust forming under typical primer that was exposed to a couple months of spring moisture/humidity. Primer is dangerouse as you think the metal is covered but it's just hidden....moisture has access to the metal.

 

"Marine" filler will provide a lot of protection from moisture.

There's that sand blaster attachment that's powered from a Shop Vac... I haven't tried it, and couldn't find any good reviews online, but it could be workable for small patches of rust like that. Sandblasting seems to get deep into the rust pits, without chewing away the surrounding good metal. I'd still want to finish up with some phosphoric acid product though, to get the last traces of rust out.

It'd be nice if there was some product that would seal metal from air and moisture, and could just be peeled off when you're ready to finish it. I suppose grease kind of serves that purpose, but it's a little messy. Maybe a patch of grease, sealed under Saran wrap (taped down).

 

Spray primer is probably not the best option for me, lack of space and equipment.
Are there other options to spray primer?
I've gathered some information re: ospho, por-15, rust bullet, etc...
Can any of those be applied via roller or brush with any kind of great success?
I need to do some more reading about the whole metal prep process incorporating rust converters.
Any info you can throw my way would be prefect.

I'm in the North West Arkansas region.

TIA,
Mike

 

an ozark man eh?

I'd get some eastwood product...they can all be brushed on and you can get eastwood in spray can as well....por 15 can be a pain to paint over later.

I'd get some ospho from a harware store and a spray bottle....simply coat the rust a couple of times after knocking of scale and loose rust....degrease and then apply the eastwood or por 15, rust bullet etc....

simple.

 

This is what I can gather from my reading:

• take down to metal using DA sander, could probably get away with fine surface prep disk
• clean with wax and grease remover
• use rust converter on rust spots (coat, dry, sand off residue)
• clean with wax and grease remover
• apply protective coat (rust-bullit, por-15, etc...)
• lightly hand dry sand 100
• prime with non etching primer
• guide coat
• block dry sand 400
• prime low spots
• block dry sand 600
• apply epoxy primer

Do I need to use a primer sealer at this point?
If I follow the above steps (assuming they are correct), can I do this for a panel at a time? Example, take the hood off, do the above prep work, put the hood back on, take the front fender off, do the prep work, etc....

I would like to be able to work on a panel at a time. Is this feasible?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to understand exactly what I can and can not do given my circumstances (two car garage and no spray equipment). I know people have done it in the past, I just have to figure out how. I like to have everything laid out before I do stuff, guess I'm just crazy that way.

Thanks,
Mike

 

I personally believe that your list gets the cart before the horse. The Epoxy Primer should go over treated bare metal. It provides the best corrosion protection.

A few added comments:

Use the wax and grease remover BEFORE doing anything.

Don't touch the metal with your bare hands, sweat and body oils will create hot spots. Use gardeners, cloth gloves.

If you did use bare hands and sweated, you will have salt to remove. Use warm water and a sponge to remove the salt then immediately towel dry and apply your rust converter. The Epoxy Primer should be able to be applied over the rust converter.

Epoxy Primer is sort of oily for the first week or so. Either apply the next coat of sealer, basecoat or whatever you wish to apply next within a day or so OR if you wait a week, you can then sand it before applying the next coat. Do not try to sand Epoxy Primer within about a week of applying it. If you do it will do nothing but clog the sandpaper.

If you need to apply plastic filler, do it OVER the Epoxy Primer.

Hope this helps,

 

If Epoxy primer offers the best protection, what is the advantage for rust preventer's (rust-bullet, por-15, etc....)?

so bare metal, clean, rust converter for spots if necessary, epoxy primer??? and no rust preventer coat?

Now I'm confused....again.

mike

 

The rust converter KILLS the microscopic rust that is still there and you can't see. You MUST kill the rust before laying down the EP.

Hope this helps,

 

OK, I get that rust converters are a totally different animal to epoxy primer.
but how do products like rust bullet and POR-15 play into the equation?

Are they meant to be a alternative (standalone product) to EP? or just another step in the process of paint prep?

Seems that rust bullet and POR-15 combine the rust converter and EP into onestep?

not trying to beat a dead horse, just curious.
mike

 

rust converters are a simple acid treatment- and it etches the bare metal for paint as well killing rust. POR-15 etc is a type of paint that is specifically designed to cover treated rust... forever...extremely tough. HOWEVER... you do not need to use por 15, rust bullet etc on panels that you plan to epoxy primer and paint. POR 15 is usually used as the end cover...like frames etc. The por 15 site has their recipe for using their product.

Heres my method...doing it right now.

1. Get bad area down to metal... might grind, sand, strip, blast...etc based on problem.

2. Make sure scale rust is off and loose rust is removed...

3. clean with degreasor- to make sure converter works

4. Apply "metal ready" (my favorite) and/or "ospho". 11 bucks a quart at my local ACE.

5. Rinse and clean with laq thinner.... i like laq thinner at this point...penetrates better than any other degreasor period...

6. Scratch the heck out of the metal with 30-180 grit so there are big and smaller abrasions in the metal...or use a grinder...I like it rough. clean again...

7. If it is an area that needs major work i'll fiberglass, weld..whatever...right over treated metal...most fiberglass seals really well...I like the fiberglass filler with strands...very solid. Welding can be best but much of the time it forces you to leave untreated, uncovered metal...exposed...i don't like that at all.

8. After rough bodywork is done I clean again with a good solvent degreasor or laq thinner.

9. Tape and prep for paint

10. Apply epoxy primer...a couple good coats

11. use metal to metal filler or latex filler etc to finish body work- right on top of epoxy primer... never on regular primer.

12. 2k primer to include several coats...vary color for block sanding

block sand, primer, block sand , primer.....cleaning everytime....no laq thinner after epoxy primer is used....use a non-penetrating cleaner....and latex gloves etc

some thoughts...

stock paint is a great base for epoxy primer...rough it up with 180 grit clean and spray.

Once epoxy primer is applied you only have a few hours to apply the filler and 2k primer... or you have to rough up the epoxy...expoxy is just that... and it is not fun to sand...gewy etc. I always use a 2k primer over the epoxy right after i finish the final body work with bondo etc then i have time to block sand etc without worrying about the time. I have re-sprayed the epoxy once all the work is done and i'm ready to topcoat... so your work is in layers and sealed in with the epoxy.

as long as you clean a lot...as you obviously do...have fun and see what works for you... worst case is you have redo a spot or two.

 

For what ever reason, this helped to solidify some things in my head.
Good info,
Thanks!

whats 2k primer?

 

Need to read the epoxy primer. All I have uses say its best to bare metal after prep. And it can do some bad things to some base coats. The only exception is if you have body filler, which works best to bare metal.

I have found depending on application. I do the prep for bare metal, then apply the epoxy primmer directly to it. 2 coats. Then while I'm in the recoat window, I spray 2K primer that is a different color so I know where i'm at during block sanding.

Thicker coatings can call problems, never get thicker that what is recommend. Doing so can cause some cracking later on.

2K is a cat primmer, (2 part). sets in about 2 hrs.

 

Do your homework on the products you plan to use, most paint companies have websites that will give you the infomation, especially if you are new to painting.