(Semi) long time lurker, seldom poster...HELP NEEDED!

I've spent a great deal of time trying to digest everyone's feedback on curing the handling ills, particularly "wander" of the X, particularly while towing. My towing baptism by fire was a 6K mile round trip with an H&H 8x20 tandem-axle, flat nose trailer, which was lightly loaded and carried one bike (it's set up for 4) for half the trip. The Draw-Tite WD hitch that I ordered showed up the day before the trip, missing an important (proprietary and therefore, unavailable for local purchase) bolt so it rode around in the back of the trailer...GREAT! I ended up using standard adjustable hitch and 2 5/16ths ball.

I have 20 inch ARE "Wolverine" wheels with 305/50/20 Cooper Zeon EST (maxed @ 50 PSI) tires. Tires are in excellent condition, alignment is per factory spec. I think that the springs are stock (there's one leaf in the front, five in the back). I installed stock length Bilsteins all around, a Hellwig rear anti-sway bar, Firestone air-bags and a dual front steering stabilizer. Currently the front center wheel well measurement is 39 inches, the rear 40 inches. Cryo Powerslot rotors and Hawk LTS pads to help slow it down (and a Prodigy brake controller).

Long story short, it was a death ride. It was 2 handed, white knuckle almost the entire way. It was extraordinarily stressful, to say the least, and having my family along for the ride didn't help matters. Semis and the slightest wind had me all over the place. "Bump" steer was very pronounced. The trailer was dead level and the tires inflated to their maximum. Experimenting with the air-bags really didn't do much.

I was extremely unhappy, to say the least, and tremendously disappointed. My previous tow vehicle was an '03 Navigator with the auto-load leveling air suspension and was incredibly stable, just horrible on gas. I went with a diesel X because I knew that my trailer and its load were going to increase, and to pump up the mileage...

I added the WD hitch and did some local trailering and it helped some, but it's still pretty hairy...

With even more trailering (maybe 8K pounds at the most) on tap for the coming year I'm extremely anxious to get it right, and not have to start over with another vehicle. After reading up here and on TDS I'm confident that a spring swap will get me where I want to be (I'm not interested in the Landyot's radius rods) and just have a few questions. Much thanks in advance to Stewart_H, bucky440 and everyone else that's posted up their own experiences, I just need some feedback on these questions...

• Does it sound like my springs are stock? (Given the spring count and ride height)
• The V's in the front should increase my height about 1 3/4 inches, correct?
• Using the B's in the rear with the 3.5 inch tapered blocks it should increase approximately 1 7/8ths inches, correct?
• What about the F's instead of the B's for the rear? Thoughts? (any changes as far as the blocks are concerned?)
• I can keep the Bilsteins I have now in the rear, and would need to swap out the fronts for the ones made for the F-250, correct?
• Will the air-bags even be necessary after the spring swap?
• Can/would/should I consider the Roadmaster Active Suspension also in addition or instead of the air-bags?
• I prefer a level look and don't want more than 1 inch rake (which is basically what I have now), anything else to consider to keep it that way.
• Anything else I've missed, should consider, etc.?

Your helpful feedback is VERY much appreciate! Thanks,

Matty

 

Well, I was hoping another member might chime in and I'd just agree with them but...

From what I've read in this forum about the X's wonderous wander, the major problem stems from spring wrap... I don't do much towing but I have experienced it myself... I'm going to attack the problem with Landyot's Radius Rods and Roadmaster Active Suspension... a bit of overkill but I want the benefit of Roadmaster's ability to "strengthen" the rear springs. (I do not care to do a spring swap). (Roadmaster's A.S. advertises a reduction in spring wrap but not to the extent Landyout's will.)

I also believe that your wheel & tire combo is not the best for towing and only having the ability to pump your tires up to 50 psi is a real hinderace.

I'm sure other's will chime in with answers to your other questions... or do some searches with varied word combinations.

Good Luck.

 

What year is your Ex? I assume it's either a PSD or V10, correct? 4x4 or two-wheel drive?

Do a search for posts by user X_Hemi_Guy, using the term "suspension" as your search word.

Joe (X_Hemi_Guy) has a great thread about air pressure and the relation it had on his towing experience. He's also posted a ton of excellent info regarding the RAS (Roadmaster Active Suspension).

I do have to say tho, my Toyo Open Country tires (load range E) have a max pressure of 80psi. Quite a bit more than your tires, so I'm assuming your tires aren't load rated E (stronger sidewall).

Confirm your front leaf springs is one single spring? Not a pack of three or four springs?

If it's one single spring I feel safe in saying it's not OEM.

If that front spring is only one spring, then no. The back spring could be OEM for the Excursion, but it's really difficult to tell just by your description. Based on your towing experience though, I'd definitely have to lean towards the springs being OEM spec for the Excursion

Ummm, probably a tad closer to 1.5" than 1.75".

Approximately, yes. Maybe a hair less.

I'm sorry bro, it's been well over two years since I did all my research on the spring modification. I spent almost 4 months studying my options before I decided on the V code and B codes, so I don't remember too much about the F codes and how they affected the ride height or feel.

You can continue using the front Bilsteins, BUT you will get a tad more range with the ones for the F250 4x4, which Shane at Bilstein highly recommended I do when I consulted him about the proper shocks.

The rears are fine tho, since they have a ton of excess range, according to Shane.

If my experience and results will be mirrored by your Excursion after you do the swap, then no, the bags won't be needed.

For me, if I started having more sag in the rear than I liked (the front higher than the rear when loaded and towing, while utilizing a WD hitch) then I would opt for the RAS over the air bags. But I don't see that happening anytime soon. These springs are working out fantastically for me and my daily driving needs, as well as my towing needs.

That's exactly how my Ex sits right now, and I think it looks PERFECT!

Ummm, I'm really tired right now Matty, so I'm not sure if there is anything you missed, or I can think of right now.

I'll revisit this thread tomorrow after church and see if anything pops in my head.

Hopefully by then, others will have chimed in too.

Stewart

 

Thanks for posting up gentlemen, I appreciate it!

FYI, it's an '04 PSD 4WD (it's in my sig )...

I was concerned that the tires were an issue. I thought they wouldn't be since they're load rated "XL" by Cooper (as opposed to "STD") but the 50 PSI max probably isn't helping. The wheels are 20x9 so I'll start looking for a better tire...

CORRECTION , it looks like there's only 2, relatively flat leaves in the front (I was all excited with the Patriots game coming up and all!). It's gotta be stock.

I'm definitely not discounting the effectiveness of the Landyot's, they have an outstanding reputation, I just don't want to bolt them to the stock springs, which I think we all generally agree are the weakest link in the stock suspension.

I did forget to mention Joe/X_Hemi_Guy's extremely helpful and informative posts, so thanks!

Now to just get the suspension up to the towing task that the motor sure is hell is, WOW!

Thanks all, keep the suggestions coming, they're very much appreciated.

Matty

 

Do the v / b code spring mod. I followed Stewarts advice on my 04 psd 4x4 and it tows like a dream with 3 big harleys in the 17 ft v nose pace trailer. 60 lbs of air in all 4 tires with 4 big adults and luggage in the X. Make sure you got enough tongue weight .I question that tire set up.

 

Those 50 series tires are your biggest problem. Good for looks but not towing. I suggest getting a higher profile sidewall, At least "E" rated. (That's factory) Not saying you still don't need the spring upgrade but with just changing the tires you will be able to rest with both hands on the wheel. After the springs you'll be a happy one hander! Good Luck.

 

Not related yo your suspension problems but post some pics of your ride! Are you the original owner when the truck was done up on the show? Too bad they didn't address the suspension at the same time...

 

Thanks for the replies! I have a "short" (1600+ round trip) planned for later this month with my smaller trailer (7x14 V-nose) and I'm gonna start with the tires...

Here's a pic:



It's been on a couple of the older episodes of American Chopper, Senior drove it mostly. When they changed their affiliation from Ford/Lincoln/Mercury to Chevy it had to go, and a dealer/collector in PA grabbed it at OCC's veterans charity auction, and showed it off for a few months. They put it up for sale around the same time I returned from a 3K+ mile round trip with my '03 Navigator and small trailer getting barely 7 MPG (and requiring premium). I had to have a diesel, wanted a SUV, (which limited my options to the X) and the rest is history!

Thanks for the suggestions, keep 'em coming!

Matty

 

I have a straight stock 2000 Ltd with a 7.3 PSD. I run stock sized Michelin LTX tires with an E rating and use a Valley Tow Rite distributing hitch that I bought in the 1980's to pull an 8500# 24' Haulmark car trailer. The Excursion has no suspension modifications other than new shocks. I try to set my load in the trailer to be slightly biased toward the hitch end and have my distributing hitch and tire inflations adjusted properly. The vehicle and trailer sit dead level and the rig tows like a dream. I have yet to experience any of the wander problems. I also tow this trailer with my 2000 E350 PSD work van which I ordered with the towing package and it's a stable tow vehicle also.

Not to say that this is the case, but I often wonder if we sometimes "improve" ourselves into unwanted problems

BJ Lexington, KY

 

I hear ya! The wheels/tires are what came with it. The sway bar was a no-brainer for me (although it had a stocker). The shocks were bad...and they weren't good either. The only towing suspension mod that I really made were the air-bags, just because it squatted quite a bit with very little tongue load...

Now that I'm getting ready for some serious towing I want to make sure to get it right. Like I said I'm gonna start with the tires, I'm just not sure how much luck I'll have finding a E load rated tire for a 20x9 rim (with a decent sidewall)...

Matty

 

How level is your trailer in relation to your Excursion? With the larger rims/tires the receiver will be elevated. You may need more drop in your hitch insert to level the trailer. If the trailer it tipped to the rear, it's going to have sway problems.

BJ Lexington, KY

 

I am on my first trip with my 2000 V10 4x4 limited...

when I first bought it someone told me to check this site out...
I read and read... by the time I was done reading I was afraid to drive the X let alone tow my 10,000# TT with it...

I did install the hellwig which seemed to be the best starting point and looked into the RAS. if I hadn't already ordered the hellwig, I would have tried the RAS first, as I didn't want to do to many things and not know which helped and what didn't... that seems to happen a lot...

as usual things didn't go as planed and I run out of time (bad weather and no place to work on it). so I hooked up my trailer, that took 4 hours because the hitch never had a long draw bar in it and due to some scaly rust my drawbar wouldn't go in all the way and had trouble removing it then... only to find out I couldn't get the tongue low enough and had to go tongue high, and very little spring in the WDH, or the trailer tongue would raise even higher... OH NO, talk about Murphy... this is while it poured down rain the whole time, but the week before we had a 13" snow, so rain didn't seem so bad...

with all I read, I decided to rub some PINE TAR on my hands so they would really grip the steering wheel, because I knew it would be a white knuckle experience...

well I am very happy to report the X preformed flawlessly... I even relaxed the chains all the way to see what happened... it swayed...

so now I have a new drawbar and will have time to set the hitch right and I already know it will be a pleasant ride...

the only time I have a problem with wondering is if I load the front to much by putting to much spring in the WDH... at some point I will add the RAS to raise the rear a little so it can be level with my X and not using to much WD...

other than the RAS, I think one big improvement I can make is replacing the tires with a quiet highway tire... (I have stock wheels and 265x75x16R LR E TIRES) that are exactly right for a TV...

if axle wrap is a problem with the X it seems to be unchanged even with the heavy trailer and about 1,000# in the truck... (by the time we got here about 1,200 in the truck) my wife has a spending problem... as it feels the same loaded or empty...

my suspension is all stock except for the hellwig and all original even the shocks... that I will change when I get home in May...

this has been my experience, and needless to say, I am quite pleased with it and the softer suspension would have been fine if Ford hadn't gone a little over board with it... they did...

I have many many miles of towing, maybe more than not towing and I don't know how much that effects my opinion, but I think the X is a fine TV with only minor mods for heavy trailers

sorry this is so long...

I think your problem is you tires first and the wheels next to use your truck as a TV instead of a ride...

good luck
Jack

i might as well take this opportunity to show her off

 

Oh I got it perfectly level, all around, to within an 1/8th of an inch, with an adjustable hitch and the bags. The tires didn't look up to the job aired up to the max PSI and the more I think about and read up on it here the more I'm convinced that's the best place to start...

Matty

 

Jack,

Thanks for the post and the pic, looking very nice.

I definitely agree with your comment about setting it up as a TV as opposed to a ride too and that's what I need to start working on.

Matty

 

hi, get a set of stock wheels and michelen tires & swap when towing. ,bseg barry