V10 Triton in my motorhome. I started having a slight loping at idle. Then a slight power loss. Took it to my Ford dealer - he changes fuel filter, mass airflow sensor, throttle position sensor, and crank sensor. Nothing helps, in fact it is getting worse to where it will hardly start, and missing/chugging. He does a compression test on all 10 - about half what it should be, thinks the engine is blown - no idea why. He can't drop an engine at his shop though, so recommends I take it to Denver to a Ford Truck dealer, but he says, "DO NOT tell them about our diagnosis. Let them start from scratch" (why would he say this?). So I take it to the new dealer, and just say "loss of power". They say "fuel pump" (even though first dealer said pressure was fine). They replace fuel pump - no change. Finally they do a compression test, say it's half what it should be and they look with some kind of scope and say the pistons are all dinged and all my exhaust valves are bent. They say it looks like it jumped time, and are now pulling the engine to tear it down.

We only drive this motorhome about 2-3K per year, so I'm out of Ford warranty because of 5-year age. The Extended Warranty company is waiting to hear about the diagnosis before they will commit to paying anything.

What in the world could have happened to this engine???

Interested in any thoughts. Thanks!

 

You are definitly not the norm! I can honestly say that after reading this forum for sometime this only the third blown up V10 I have seen and the other two were within a couple thousand miles of being new so they were definitly one of those manufacturing defects. I think the shop may have hit it on the nose saying that you jumped timing. I only agree since all the exhasut valves are bent which seem pretty consistant and if the drop is in all of the cylinders shows that it has to do with something out of time. Good luck with your claim and getting something done!

 

your ? why would they say this. it is so they get paid for their work not have it charged back at them by ford warrenty.

sounds like dealer 2 has a scope called a bore scope which allows a tech to look though a fiber optic in though the spark plug hole to see and photo the problem inside the cylinder.
this dealer is well set with tools of todays needs that help save time .a bore scope is not cheap but man does it help big time.

as to jumping time i sure would like to know what they find as this motor has a set of 2 timing chains to turn the camshafts."one for each bank" please let us know what they find that was the cause. ie. loose camshaft gear bolt? bad keyway? as you state 13k something came loose or broke in my mind. again please tell us the final result

 

Good Luck,
I had a valve bent in my v 10 (01 Gulfstream motor home) it had 14,172 miles when I pulled into the Ford garage. I now have 17,000 on it but I had a rebuilt engine put in.
The trouble started when a spring keeper fell off for #5. ( a guess)
I am not sure when it happened ,but I had no trouble climbing hills other than a vibration in the steering wheel. I thought it was the drive shaft.That is what I brought it in for.

 

Thanks for replys guys. I will definitely post what they find - I'm sure it will be a few days, they say they have to drop the engine out of the motorhome to tear it down. This motorhome happens to be an '01 too, just like Doug6213's. First 4 years it ran beautifully - I kept commenting how much better I liked it than the 460 I had in my previous motorhome. So, it doesn't sound like a mfg. defect. captchas talked about Dealer 1 telling me to play dumb with Dealer 2 so that they wouldn't get charged back by Ford warranty. That makes sense, but on this one, I'm already out of Ford warranty and into what's called RV Shield - an extended motorhome warranty. They are probably just so accustomed to telling customers this. Well, Dealer 2 found out from RV Shield about Dealer 1's work and was a little miffed with me for not telling them. All I could say was, "Hey, I honestly wasn't trying to deceive you, was just following what 2 service advisers at Dealer 1 recommended." I think we're past that - I think the problem is that RV Shield now doesn't want to pay for that $900 fuel pump job since that didn't fix anything. As capthas says, Dealer 2 has the bore scope (Dealer 1 does not) and seems very knowledgable, so I authorized the tear down and autopsy. Again, thanks you guys - I will post the results!

 

Capt. Chas has brought up a good point about special tools that are out there and avail, but some dealer techs don't have access to. How can they claim to be a good quality service department without these special tools? It seems to me the same thing as trying to tighten a bolt with pliers and a crescent wrench rather than a properly sized box wrench. I thought Ford had a factory rep that continually checked on the dealer's tools and service training. They shouldn't sell em if they can't fix em with the latest tools and training available.

BTW, My '05 SD spun a front main crankshaft bearing and totally lost all oil pressure and self destructed at 5000 miles. No one ever found out how or why (at least they never told me), but I got a brand new motor from Ford, and now with 15,000 miles it runs fine, so $%*t happens at that motor plant.

 

Thanks 4wd! I'm starting to feel a little less abnormal with my engine woes!

 

4wd, you were one of the two that I was thinking about! If I remember right the other was a HD edition with like a thousand miles or something to those lines. like you said "stuff" happens at the engine plant occasionally!

 

I am having a hard time mentally thinking of any part of this cam drive train that can cause all 10 exhaust valves to hit pistons.... the term "jumped time" is from days gone by when GM uses aluminum cam drive gear and would literally wear down to NO teeth condition, or drive chain could stretch to way too large and jump a tooth or two..

the way this cam drive is set up BOTH drive gears on both heads would have to fail the keyed and bolted position on the front of the cam....

I doubt the crank drive gear can shift position and the way the idlers are set up, there is no way a chain can jump a tooth...

So I wonder is it is possiblke that all 20 Valve spring keepres fail simultaniously...man that would be real weird but is only thing I can think of to cause all exhaust valves to hit pistons except a sudden shift of cam position and then the intakes would have to take a hit too...

I am dying to know more about this... it will be the third V10 I have heard about with a sudden death at 12-16 thousand miles

psweath

When they get done with the autopsy... try and post pictures if you can

 

I know what could have bent all 10 exhaust valves...

A mechanic who took the timing chains off for some ungodly reason, and re-timed it VERY retarded. Piston coming up on exhaust stroke, hits exhaust valve while it's still open. Repeat 10 times. It wouldn't catch the intake valve, because those close when the piston is coming up after BDC, and if they are late, it's gotta be REALLY late to hit the intakes.

Is the timing chain on the crank a one-piece with two sets of teeth, one for each cam chain? Breaking that keyway (or lack thereof) is about the only way that could happen.

 

I think I know why they did all those other things before checking the engine mechanically.

Here's the process from my '01 service manual for the F-superduty:



o Insufficient power

Possible Source(s):
§ Malfunctioning or damaged ignition system.

Action(s) to take:
§ Refer to the appropriate section in Group «303» for the procedure. REFER to the Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis Manual («OBDII», «ODBII-Diesel», «ODBII-Bi-Fuel LPG/CNG»).

Possible Source(s):
§ Malfunctioning or damaged fuel system.

Action(s) to take:
§ Refer to the appropriate section in Group «303» for the procedure. REFER to the Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis Manual («OBDII», «ODBII-Diesel», «ODBII-Bi-Fuel LPG/CNG»).

Possible Source(s):
§ Malfunctioning or damaged air intake system.

Action(s) to take:
§ Refer to the appropriate section in Group «303» for the procedure. REFER to the Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis Manual («OBDII», «ODBII-Diesel», «ODBII-Bi-Fuel LPG/CNG»).

Possible Source(s):
§ Damaged or plugged exhaust system.

Action(s) to take:
§ INSPECT exhaust system.

Possible Source(s):
§ Incorrect tire size.

Action(s) to take:
§ REFER to «Section 204-04».

Possible Source(s):
§ Dragging brakes.

Action(s) to take:
§ REFER to «Section 206-00».

Possible Source(s):
§ Slipping transmission.

Action(s) to take:
§ Refer to the appropriate section in Group «307» for the procedure.

Possible Source(s):
§ Malfunctioning valve tappet or lash adjuster.

Action(s) to take:
§ INSTALL a new valve tappet or lash adjuster.

Possible Source(s):
§ Damaged valve tappet guide or valve tappet.

Action(s) to take:
§ INSTALL a new valve tappet guide or valve tappet.

Possible Source(s):
§ Compression leakage at valve seat.

Action(s) to take:
§ REPAIR or INSTALL a new valve, valve seat or cylinder head (6049).

Possible Source(s):
§ Seized valve stem.

Action(s) to take:
§ INSTALL a new valve.

Possible Source(s):
§ Weak or broken valve spring.

Action(s) to take:
§ INSTALL a new valve spring.

Possible Source(s):
§ Worn or damaged cam.

Action(s) to take:
§ INSTALL a new camshaft.

Possible Source(s):
§ Damaged head gasket (6051).

Action(s) to take:
§ INSTALL a new head gasket.

Possible Source(s):
§ Cracked or distorted cylinder head.

Action(s) to take:
§ INSTALL a new cylinder head.

Possible Source(s):
§ Damaged, worn or sticking piston ring(s).

Action(s) to take:
§ REPAIR or INSTALL a new piston ring(s).

Possible Source(s):
§ Worn or damaged piston.

Action(s) to take:
§ INSTALL a new piston and piston pin.

 

Well, exaust valve inteferance can happen when gasoline engines are used hard in steep mountous country. This can happen when the engine is over revved on compression desending a steep grade, after building up extra high heat climbing the mountain, and not being cooled suffciantly before starting down the other side.

 

I think you are on to something Mustang P51D

OTOH
I was going down the back side of a tall steep one in my 01 4R100 and the torque converter would not let me over tach the motor...almost cooked the brakes for lack of any compression braking...

Every time going down the back side in the 05 with the 5R110w the tow haul , locked torque converter, and down shift assisting the brakes for the descent there was no danger of over tach because I had full control...

I think all the motor coaches are all auto trans so probably the 4R100.

I guess it could happen..... but some how unlikely now that I think on it some

If this was a manual trany your therory would be sound thought

 

Fredvon4, you talked about pictures - should I ask the Ford dealer for these? Do they typically photograph this stuff?

krewat suggested a mechanic who may have had the timing chains off, but this motorhome has only ever had routine oil change type maintenance. Dealer 1 is the only one who ever did more than an oil change. After they worked on it, it did seem to run worse, but I didn't really think they caused it, I just thought the condition itself was worsening. I thought for sure Dealer 2 said they had to drop the engine to get to the chains, and certainly no one has ever dropped the engine.

P51D Mustang talked about mountainous driving, heating up, then overrevving on the downhill. Actually it was when cresting a fairly steep hill (go from about 5,000' to 7,000') that the Engine light came on, and it was after that that things really worsened, like not starting. I do take it out of overdrive when descending hills, but can't think of any possible overrev condition.

The only other thing that happened with this unit was in the winter, which was the last trip prior to me initially noticing that slight surge at idle. I got stuck in the snow, and as part of getting unstuck, there was a lot of wheel spinning - in fact a slight burning smell at one point. But I got unstuck and drove another thousand miles and didn't notice any issue.

Stay tuned...

 

psweath

They probably have to drop motor because of motor coach design other wise getting to the front end in a normal truck is fairly easy just getting shrouds and radiators out of the way

You have to take any pictures once opened up..... they most like will not..... even if you ask

The broken motor is yours unless they have to trade it in as core for the rebuilt motor they are most likely going to swap in

Not reading properly your first post and the crank position sensor change by the first dealer I assumed the easy to get to CAM Position Sensor on front of pass cylinder head... but now that I re read the original post and think on it some.... a CRANK position sensor requires getting into the front of the motor behind all the FEAD (front engine accessory drive) stuff, and in doing that, the stupid technician probably did screw up the timing and your motor has been toast ever since that screw up...ever since they started it and gave up


Sorry brother but I will dispute with anybody how this damage can occur during normal driving even with a over rev if it was possible and with an unlocked torque converter in a 4R100 it is not likely to be over rev related

I got a bad feeling you are going to get screwed because there is no way to effectivly prove the first dealer did this I hope the folks who have it now can do right by you with a warranty repair motor