Overheating issue
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne
Overheating issue
Over the last few weeks I've been trying to diagnose this overheating issue, with no luck. Through a little bit of trial and error though I've finally found a connection.
Here's my issue:
While running around town, or even a quick trip on the highway the truck is fine. I've found that it starts to run hot when I'm on the highway. The problem occurs if doing around 60 (2800 RPM's) and in overdrive, and then proceed to give it some gas to try and speed up a little bit. As I start to depress the accelerator pedal, I start to hear a rattling sound, with it getting louder and louder the more I press down on the pedal. As the rattling increases, after maybe a minute or two, the temp gage slowly starts to climb. Once I get off of it enough to make the rattling stop it cools right back down.
THE ONLY other time I can make the truck make this noise is if I up-shift from second to third too early and then accelerate. Once I reach the optimum RPM's for third gear however the noise disappears.
It's starting to drive me crazy.
There aren't any fluid leaks (i.e. the weep hole on the water pump, etc.)
If anyone has any input I would greatly appreciate it, driving around paranoid is never fun.
Thanks,
Seth
Here's my issue:
While running around town, or even a quick trip on the highway the truck is fine. I've found that it starts to run hot when I'm on the highway. The problem occurs if doing around 60 (2800 RPM's) and in overdrive, and then proceed to give it some gas to try and speed up a little bit. As I start to depress the accelerator pedal, I start to hear a rattling sound, with it getting louder and louder the more I press down on the pedal. As the rattling increases, after maybe a minute or two, the temp gage slowly starts to climb. Once I get off of it enough to make the rattling stop it cools right back down.
THE ONLY other time I can make the truck make this noise is if I up-shift from second to third too early and then accelerate. Once I reach the optimum RPM's for third gear however the noise disappears.
It's starting to drive me crazy.
There aren't any fluid leaks (i.e. the weep hole on the water pump, etc.)
If anyone has any input I would greatly appreciate it, driving around paranoid is never fun.
Thanks,
Seth
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,981
Likes: 106
First thing I would do is figure out what is rattling. Is it an engine rattle or something else?
What engine do you have?
Do you have the correct radiator and fan?
Is your lower radiator hose collapsing?
Do you have a 50/50 antifreeze mix?
Lots of possibilities.
What engine do you have?
Do you have the correct radiator and fan?
Is your lower radiator hose collapsing?
Do you have a 50/50 antifreeze mix?
Lots of possibilities.
Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne
I always forget something.
The rattling is so hard to diagnose because it only occurs in a specific circumstance. When parked, and revving the engine there is no rattling, but when I hear it I can definitely tell that it's coming from the engine bay.
Stock 223 engine
The fan is original, and in perfect shape. I know that it isn't the source. I had the radiator checked out by a local radiator shop today and they said the radiator is fine. All of the hoses, including heater hoses are new.
Also running more of a 60-70% antifreeze, its hot down here in Florida.
Thanks,
Seth
The rattling is so hard to diagnose because it only occurs in a specific circumstance. When parked, and revving the engine there is no rattling, but when I hear it I can definitely tell that it's coming from the engine bay.
Stock 223 engine
The fan is original, and in perfect shape. I know that it isn't the source. I had the radiator checked out by a local radiator shop today and they said the radiator is fine. All of the hoses, including heater hoses are new.
Also running more of a 60-70% antifreeze, its hot down here in Florida.
Thanks,
Seth
Junior User
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
The sound is detonation (also known as spark knock) or pinging.
Carbon, too high of compression for the octane fuel being used, too low of octane fuel for the compression, bad fuel/water in fuel, engine running too hot, inlet air into engine too hot, timing too advanced, air/fuel ratio too lean, lugging the engine around (driving up hills in 5th gear), spark plug heat range too hot for the compression
Carbon, too high of compression for the octane fuel being used, too low of octane fuel for the compression, bad fuel/water in fuel, engine running too hot, inlet air into engine too hot, timing too advanced, air/fuel ratio too lean, lugging the engine around (driving up hills in 5th gear), spark plug heat range too hot for the compression
Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne
Lower radiator hose does have a spring, but I cant imagine it causing the rattling and overheating. It's nice and tight, and in great shape.
The sound definitely isn't detonation. I've heard plenty of engines knock, and this is far from it. It's more of a rattling sound, directly associated with the temp starting to rise, and only happens in a specific circumstance.
The sound definitely isn't detonation. I've heard plenty of engines knock, and this is far from it. It's more of a rattling sound, directly associated with the temp starting to rise, and only happens in a specific circumstance.
Believe Nothing
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,516
Likes: 401
From: W. Central FL.
As I start to depress the accelerator pedal, I start to hear a rattling sound, with it getting louder and louder
Sounds like what he said......Detonation.
The sound is detonation (also known as spark knock) or pinging.
carbon, too high of compression for the octane fuel being used, too low of octane fuel for the compression, bad fuel/water in fuel, engine running too hot, inlet air into engine too hot, timing too advanced, air/fuel ratio too lean, lugging the engine around (driving up hills in 5th gear), spark plug heat range too hot for the compression
carbon, too high of compression for the octane fuel being used, too low of octane fuel for the compression, bad fuel/water in fuel, engine running too hot, inlet air into engine too hot, timing too advanced, air/fuel ratio too lean, lugging the engine around (driving up hills in 5th gear), spark plug heat range too hot for the compression
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Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne
Hmm I understand how it could definitely be detonation now. It's just nothing like any kind of engine knock I've heard before.
How should I proceed from here? I'm thinking the most likely culprits to be carbon, timing, plugs and a poor air/fuel ratio? Maybe a little bit of everything?
Currently running 87 octane, or whatever "regular" is. It's my DD so I know it's not bad fuel, I fill it about twice a week.
Thanks,
Seth
How should I proceed from here? I'm thinking the most likely culprits to be carbon, timing, plugs and a poor air/fuel ratio? Maybe a little bit of everything?
Currently running 87 octane, or whatever "regular" is. It's my DD so I know it's not bad fuel, I fill it about twice a week.
Thanks,
Seth
Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne
I just replaced the thermostat with a 180 the other day, and today the radiator shop flushed the system while they were checking everything out, so I'm at a 50/50 now.
I'll try tuning the carb tonight.
Thanks,
Seth
I'll try tuning the carb tonight.
Thanks,
Seth
Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 14
From: Tucson, Arizona
Agree with the others that it sounds like spark knock (detonation). Your engine should run OK on 87 octane. Check first to see if the timing has been set correctly and that the advance is working properly, according to factory specs. One way to test for spark knock (without a timing light) is to retard the timing slightly and try it - as in take it out and drive it. See how the engine responds and adjust from there. The earlier suggestion of tuning with a vacuum gauge may also be helpful. Good luck.
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 602
Likes: 1
From: Sacramento, CA.
Something I read in another truck forum.
The vacuum advance diaphragm on Ford 223 engines commonly tears or gets holed and then there is no advance at all except the initial static timing. When the diaphragm gets a hole in it the vacuum from the carb can cause dust to be sucked into the distributor. This can freeze up the breaker plate so that even if you change the diaphragm, there still may be no advance. Dust can also get into the piping and passages in the carb preventing any advance.
Late timing causes over heating because the mixture is still burning as it goes out the exhaust valve and heats up the exhaust port excessively.
The vacuum advance diaphragm on Ford 223 engines commonly tears or gets holed and then there is no advance at all except the initial static timing. When the diaphragm gets a hole in it the vacuum from the carb can cause dust to be sucked into the distributor. This can freeze up the breaker plate so that even if you change the diaphragm, there still may be no advance. Dust can also get into the piping and passages in the carb preventing any advance.
Late timing causes over heating because the mixture is still burning as it goes out the exhaust valve and heats up the exhaust port excessively.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 24,552
Likes: 74
From: Creedmoor, North Carolina
Seth, There is enough frontal opening in these old trucks for wind to flow through at 60 that something has to be up for it to run hot.
Your truck was not designed to run much over 45 mph. and the 223 not with OD. These trucks are a 1950s design.
I also feel you have a spark issue and the OD might be adding to the problem. Certainly don't use it under 50 mph.
John
Your truck was not designed to run much over 45 mph. and the 223 not with OD. These trucks are a 1950s design.
I also feel you have a spark issue and the OD might be adding to the problem. Certainly don't use it under 50 mph.
John
Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,954
Likes: 64
Your 2 issues are probably not related, get rid of the ping, most likely too much timing advance.
You'll have to be more specific on the overheating. Couple of facts.
Under pressure you can safely run 250 degrees with no side effects.
If your gauge creeps up then stops rising, you are not in danger of overheating.
If the gauge creeps up and continues up to the top, you have an overheating issue.
The cooling system is designed to transfer the heat produced by the engine, if you are producing 50,000 BTU's of heat, the guage will stop rising when the cooling system is dispersing 50,000 BTU's. If the system can only get rid of 49,000 BTU's the guage will continue to rise until it boils over.
Be more specific as to what it's doing on the gauge and we'll try and diagnose your problem.
You'll have to be more specific on the overheating. Couple of facts.
Under pressure you can safely run 250 degrees with no side effects.
If your gauge creeps up then stops rising, you are not in danger of overheating.
If the gauge creeps up and continues up to the top, you have an overheating issue.
The cooling system is designed to transfer the heat produced by the engine, if you are producing 50,000 BTU's of heat, the guage will stop rising when the cooling system is dispersing 50,000 BTU's. If the system can only get rid of 49,000 BTU's the guage will continue to rise until it boils over.
Be more specific as to what it's doing on the gauge and we'll try and diagnose your problem.