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Need timing cover gasket and seal help

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Old 10-08-2010, 02:49 PM
royt911
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Need timing cover gasket and seal help

Ford F-150 1984 302

Never done this before. I got a Fel-Pro kit from Fisher Auto parts and it says to grease up the seal before installing it. I am assuming they are talking about the crankshaft seal. Now the new seal looks a whole lot different than the old seal. Does the wide part go outside of the cover or inside? What I mean by wide part is the flat end that will but up against the inside or the outside of the timing cover. The directions didn't say anything about that. And what tool do I use to pound it in with? It looks tight and I don't want to damage it. Thanks.
 
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Old 10-08-2010, 06:48 PM
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The smooth metal part goes to the outside of the cover. Use a large soft block of wood to carefully drive it in place. A large socket will work also. Anything that will spread the hammer blows over the whole metal part of the seal.

Make sure you look at the harmonic balancer where the seal rides. If it has a groove from the old seal, your new seal will most likely leak. They make repair sleeves for the balancer if it has a groove.
 
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:10 PM
royt911
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Photos attached for timing cover and seal help

Looking at the photo, is this the correct way to insert seal into cover? The outer side of the cover is shown. And just use any kind of grease to lube it? I don't have to glue it in with sealant?
[IMG]<a href="http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c95/royt911/?action=view&current=F150Sealandvanleak001.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c95/royt911/F150Sealandvanleak001.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>[/IMG]

Now the directions says it is important not to install any seal without break in lubricant. What is that and where am I to put it?
[IMG]<a href="http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c95/royt911/?action=view&current=F150Sealandvanleak011.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c95/royt911/F150Sealandvanleak011.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>[/IMG]

Next the picture shows the gaskets. So do I glue all these gaskets with the same glue?
[IMG]<a href="http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c95/royt911/?action=view&current=F150Sealandvanleak005.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c95/royt911/F150Sealandvanleak005.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>[/IMG]
And the directions says to use quick drying adhesive in several spots on the block. Shouldn't I apply a thin bead all around the block?
[IMG]<a href="http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c95/royt911/?action=view&current=F150Sealandvanleak012.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c95/royt911/F150Sealandvanleak012.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>[/IMG]
Now I got surface rust which I will clean off with steel wool. Can I use this on the crank too? I know this is elementary to most of you but I don't break into an engine much and I don't want to have to come back and fix my mistakes. Thanks for your support.
[IMG]<a href="http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c95/royt911/?action=view&current=F150Sealandvanleak006.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c95/royt911/F150Sealandvanleak006.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>[/IMG]
 
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:46 PM
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You drive the seal in from the outside of the cover ike you show. You lube the black rubber part of the seal that the balancer rides on. The adhesive just holds the seal in place while you bolt it together, I try to use as little as possible like the directions say.
 
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:48 PM
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Make sure you stuff a rag in the hole so rust and steel wool stay out of the pan, A razor blade might work a little better.
 
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Old 10-11-2010, 07:43 AM
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Thanks. Now the directions says it is important not to install any seal without break in lubricant. What is that and where am I to put it?
And where should I apply quick drying adhesive?
 
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Old 10-11-2010, 08:58 AM
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As bash says, no steel wool. Very thin coating of adhesive sealant arond part of seal that goes into cover. I use wheel bearing grease on the seal. Oil the chain, gears, fuel pump eccentric, and crank shaft. Some engines have an oil "slinger" that goes between the crank gear and the balancer - before putting the cover on. Put the cover on-gaskets in place, slide clean, oiled balancer on to help align seal to balancer. (A tool is made for this) Get a couple of bolts started on the cover to hold the alignment. Then get balancer back out of the way to install rest of bolts. I like to put anti-seize on the bolts in case I have to do it again.
 
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Old 10-13-2010, 05:02 PM
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The timing cover is on but what a pain it was. What's the purpose of putting on the balancer to align the cover? I did put in on part way so I could still pull it off with my hands. But when you tighten the cover, it will move the alignment anyway.
Tomorrow or Friday I need to put on the vibrating damper. Is that the same thing as the harmonic balancer? Should I just put the large bolt on and crank it in? Advanced auto said they don't have a tool to install it. Do I need to use sealant while inserting it onto the crankshaft? It had some red sealant on it when I pulled it off. Lots of questions I know. Please help!
 
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Old 10-13-2010, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by royt911 View Post
The timing cover is on but what a pain it was. What's the purpose of putting on the balancer to align the cover? I did put in on part way so I could still pull it off with my hands. But when you tighten the cover, it will move the alignment anyway.
Tomorrow or Friday I need to put on the vibrating damper. Is that the same thing as the harmonic balancer? Should I just put the large bolt on and crank it in? Advanced auto said they don't have a tool to install it. Do I need to use sealant while inserting it onto the crankshaft? It had some red sealant on it when I pulled it off. Lots of questions I know. Please help!
No sealant. Get correct tool to install it or make one out of threaded rod, nut and washers
 
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by royt911 View Post
............. What's the purpose of putting on the balancer to align the cover?......

.......Tomorrow or Friday I need to put on the vibrating damper. Is that the same thing as the harmonic balancer?

........Do I need to use sealant while inserting it onto the crankshaft? It had some red sealant on it when I pulled it off.
With the new seal for the bottom rim of the timing cover, and the 2 new segments (ears) for the oil pan gasket, the timing cover will want to sit too high. This would cause the bottom rim of the crankshaft seal to wear out quickly, while the top rim of the same seal may not seal at all. So the timing cover needs to be positioned properly up/down so the cover is centered on the balancer.
So pressing down on the top of the cover and also using the spacing tool, or the balancer itself to help center it. While pressing down and having it centered, usually install the two oil pan to timing cover bolts first to help hold the cover down, before installing the other bolts that hold cover to block.

Vibration Damper <---> Harmonic Balancer. Same thing. You didn't say it, but I hear/see many people use "Dampner". No such thing as a "dampner" !

The crankshaft center bolt, when properly torqued, will hold the harmonic balancer on just fine.

Diesel_Brad's comment is a good one. Often, the original crankshaft bolt will be too short to safely pull in the harmonic balancer. Not enough threads will engage with the balancer all the way out. Don't want to wreck threads on hardened bolt, or much worse, the threads in the end of the crank!
 
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:39 AM
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OK when it stops raining out, I will loosen all the bolts and tighten the oil pan to timing cover bolts first with the balancer part way in. Then I will tighten the other timing cover bolts. What does the tool to install the balancer do? It is used to keep the motor from turning when I tighten it? Does anyone have it as a loner tool?
 
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:39 AM
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All the tool does is to thread into the end of the crankshaft, and to push on the balancer as you turn it's forcing nut with a wrench. In effect, as you tighten it, it PULLS on the crankshaft, as it PUSHES on the balancer.

My balancer puller, used without the puller tip(s), is the right thread spec to thread into the crankshaft, so I can use it's threaded rod as a pusher.
 
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Old 10-15-2010, 07:16 AM
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Install your alignment tool (or harmonic balancer) ensuring it's adequately into the seal, then tighten the timing cover completely, then the pan!

If you tighten the pan first you'll never get the cover centered over the crank and your seal will leak prematurely ...

-Enjoy
fh : )_~
 
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Old 10-15-2010, 09:07 AM
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How do I stop the crank from turning?
 
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:12 PM
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To make your own cover alignment, seal installation tool, chuck up a piece of Delrin, Drill a crank bolt clearance hole down the length about 1/2" longer then the crank snout, Bore it to crank snout size and depth, turn OD to seal ID size for about the thickness of the seal then step up to seal OD, Cut off about 1/2" beyond the crank bore ... Use a long bolt and washer through the tool into the crank to install the seal into the cover as well as center the cover seal bore around the crank ... Like so:

(I don't know if these images are other then a black blob ... My puters video is aged a bit )

You can buy them as well ...

To pull the Harmonic balancer on use a longer bolt at first lubricate the back of the head and washer as well as the threads, Always have the bolt into the crank at least equal to or more then the diameter of the bolt... I.E. 1/2" bolt needs at least 1/2" of threads grabbing to prevent risk of damaging the crank.

Even better yet, if you can find it, All-thread that fits the crank ... However Fine threaded All-Thread is not easily found.

-Enjoy
fh : )_~
 
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