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manual to power drum brakes conversion
#16
10-01-2010, 06:09 AM
I'm also just about to convert my '67 F100 2wd from manual drums to power drums.
A '67 F100 2wd was only available with (std) manual drums or (optional) power all-drums. Both use the same proportioning valve and the same master cylinder.
So, to convert a '67 F100 2wd from manual drums to power drums, you essentially are just shifting the master cylinder forward and adding the booster, mounting brackets and the link to the pedal.
Of course, that's where it gets tricky. Ideally, you try to find a '67 F100 with the power drums option, but they are rare. So, you get the booster and hardware from a '68-'72 model, and match it up with the all-drums master cylinder. But, because of all of the combinations of master cylinders, boosters, brackets, links and pedals that were available between '67 and '72 on all of the truck models, it's easy to get a mismatch of the parts that won't work together. This is where it's best to get the whole master cylinder-to-pedal link package from one truck.
In my case, I bought a whole kit from a guy who seems to know his Ford trucks. It's the master cylinder, booster, and brackets from a '68 F100 2wd with power drums. He then included the adjustable-length pedal link. I haven't done the conversion yet, but it all looks like it goes together. I'm going to be replacing all of the lines and hoses at the same time.
A '67 F100 2wd was only available with (std) manual drums or (optional) power all-drums. Both use the same proportioning valve and the same master cylinder.
So, to convert a '67 F100 2wd from manual drums to power drums, you essentially are just shifting the master cylinder forward and adding the booster, mounting brackets and the link to the pedal.
Of course, that's where it gets tricky. Ideally, you try to find a '67 F100 with the power drums option, but they are rare. So, you get the booster and hardware from a '68-'72 model, and match it up with the all-drums master cylinder. But, because of all of the combinations of master cylinders, boosters, brackets, links and pedals that were available between '67 and '72 on all of the truck models, it's easy to get a mismatch of the parts that won't work together. This is where it's best to get the whole master cylinder-to-pedal link package from one truck.
In my case, I bought a whole kit from a guy who seems to know his Ford trucks. It's the master cylinder, booster, and brackets from a '68 F100 2wd with power drums. He then included the adjustable-length pedal link. I haven't done the conversion yet, but it all looks like it goes together. I'm going to be replacing all of the lines and hoses at the same time.
The P/B booster, master cylinder, prop valve used on 1967 F100 2WD's is 1967 only...as are the brake and clutch pedals, bracket they suspend from under the dash.
The firewall is 1967 only.
I dunno if you can use 1968 parts on a 1967 because of these differences.
Wade67: Why did Ford have 3 prop valves in 1967? Why did Ford have 4 valves in 1968/72?
The 4th valve in 1968/72 is for optional disc brakes on F100/250 2WD's and F350's.
When you figure out why Ford did all this jazz, lemme know, I haven't the slightest idea.
The 1964/72 Ford Truck Parts Catalog is available on a CD from hipoparts.com for 22 bucks.
#17
10-01-2010, 11:01 AM
Thanks, Bill. That's what I thought.
The explanation that I got from the guy selling the kit (Dan's Ford Trucks in Seattle) was that the '68 brackets and booster bolt up correctly to the '67 firewall, and it appears that they do. The difference is in the link from the booster to the pedals; the '68 link isn't the correct length to reach the '67 pedals. So he fits the '68 booster with a different link, which is adjustable length. I don't know what it's from specifically.
As I said, I haven't done the conversion/installation yet, but by eyeball and tape measure, it looks like it will all go together.
Note to others thinking about doing the manual drums to power drums conversion: You'll need to change out the two brake lines running from the master cylinder down to the proportioning valve. They aren't long enough to reach the new position of the master cylinder. When I tried to replace the brake hoses, I found that most of the line fittings were either rounded off or about to be rounded off. The lines are a mess. I'm replacing all of them as part of the conversion. I had assumed that I was going to have to cut, fit and flare them all myself. To my surprise, I found that I was able to order a complete pre-bent set of lines for a '67 F100 long WB with power drum brakes. The source is InLine Tubes in Michigan. The whole set cost $150 and took 3 weeks. Well worth it for the time savings.
The explanation that I got from the guy selling the kit (Dan's Ford Trucks in Seattle) was that the '68 brackets and booster bolt up correctly to the '67 firewall, and it appears that they do. The difference is in the link from the booster to the pedals; the '68 link isn't the correct length to reach the '67 pedals. So he fits the '68 booster with a different link, which is adjustable length. I don't know what it's from specifically.
As I said, I haven't done the conversion/installation yet, but by eyeball and tape measure, it looks like it will all go together.
Note to others thinking about doing the manual drums to power drums conversion: You'll need to change out the two brake lines running from the master cylinder down to the proportioning valve. They aren't long enough to reach the new position of the master cylinder. When I tried to replace the brake hoses, I found that most of the line fittings were either rounded off or about to be rounded off. The lines are a mess. I'm replacing all of them as part of the conversion. I had assumed that I was going to have to cut, fit and flare them all myself. To my surprise, I found that I was able to order a complete pre-bent set of lines for a '67 F100 long WB with power drum brakes. The source is InLine Tubes in Michigan. The whole set cost $150 and took 3 weeks. Well worth it for the time savings.
#18
10-03-2010, 10:22 PM
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Note to others thinking about doing the manual drums to power drums conversion: You'll need to change out the two brake lines running from the master cylinder down to the proportioning valve. They aren't long enough to reach the new position of the master cylinder. When I tried to replace the brake hoses, I found that most of the line fittings were either rounded off or about to be rounded off. The lines are a mess. I'm replacing all of them as part of the conversion. I had assumed that I was going to have to cut, fit and flare them all myself. To my surprise, I found that I was able to order a complete pre-bent set of lines for a '67 F100 long WB with power drum brakes. The source is InLine Tubes in Michigan. The whole set cost $150 and took 3 weeks. Well worth it for the time savings.
Do I need to make those big rounded loops when I put my new lines in?
Wade
#19
10-04-2010, 12:07 AM
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#20
10-04-2010, 03:51 AM
Wade;
Yes, you do need those loops in the brake lines. Remember that the master cylinder is bolted to the firewall, that is, the body. The proportioning valve block is bolted to the frame rail. There are rubber bushing mounts between the body and the frame, so there's a lot of flexing and movement between the body and the frame whenever you're driving. The loops are there to allow the brake lines to give with that movement and keep the lines from fatiguing out and cracking. Copy the factory lines in the shape, routing, number of loops, and bend radius. You can bend the brake lines by hand, but you need to be careful not to kink or flatten them. The best thing is to use one of the commercial brake line bending tools, which supports the line sideways as it bends.
Darrell;
Yeah, I actually have a good set of flare nut wrenches. But brake line fitting nuts are soft, and if they've been in there for 43 years it doesn't really matter what wrench you use.....some of them are going to round off. It's just their way of telling you that they really need to be replaced. Once you get out the vise-grips, the nut will get "ovaled" enough that it's junk anyway.
I plan to keep my '67 F100 for the rest of my driving life, so I'm replacing the entire brake system. That takes priority over everything else on it. The only original parts will be the pedals, the backing plates, and the proportioning valve.
Yes, you do need those loops in the brake lines. Remember that the master cylinder is bolted to the firewall, that is, the body. The proportioning valve block is bolted to the frame rail. There are rubber bushing mounts between the body and the frame, so there's a lot of flexing and movement between the body and the frame whenever you're driving. The loops are there to allow the brake lines to give with that movement and keep the lines from fatiguing out and cracking. Copy the factory lines in the shape, routing, number of loops, and bend radius. You can bend the brake lines by hand, but you need to be careful not to kink or flatten them. The best thing is to use one of the commercial brake line bending tools, which supports the line sideways as it bends.
Darrell;
Yeah, I actually have a good set of flare nut wrenches. But brake line fitting nuts are soft, and if they've been in there for 43 years it doesn't really matter what wrench you use.....some of them are going to round off. It's just their way of telling you that they really need to be replaced. Once you get out the vise-grips, the nut will get "ovaled" enough that it's junk anyway.
I plan to keep my '67 F100 for the rest of my driving life, so I'm replacing the entire brake system. That takes priority over everything else on it. The only original parts will be the pedals, the backing plates, and the proportioning valve.
#21
10-04-2010, 09:53 AM
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#22
10-04-2010, 10:17 AM
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Thanks, Bill. That's what I thought.
The explanation that I got from the guy selling the kit (Dan's Ford Trucks in Seattle) was that the '68 brackets and booster bolt up correctly to the '67 firewall, and it appears that they do. The difference is in the link from the booster to the pedals; the '68 link isn't the correct length to reach the '67 pedals. So he fits the '68 booster with a different link, which is adjustable length. I don't know what it's from specifically.
As I said, I haven't done the conversion/installation yet, but by eyeball and tape measure, it looks like it will all go together.
Note to others thinking about doing the manual drums to power drums conversion: You'll need to change out the two brake lines running from the master cylinder down to the proportioning valve. They aren't long enough to reach the new position of the master cylinder. When I tried to replace the brake hoses, I found that most of the line fittings were either rounded off or about to be rounded off. The lines are a mess. I'm replacing all of them as part of the conversion. I had assumed that I was going to have to cut, fit and flare them all myself. To my surprise, I found that I was able to order a complete pre-bent set of lines for a '67 F100 long WB with power drum brakes. The source is InLine Tubes in Michigan. The whole set cost $150 and took 3 weeks. Well worth it for the time savings.
The explanation that I got from the guy selling the kit (Dan's Ford Trucks in Seattle) was that the '68 brackets and booster bolt up correctly to the '67 firewall, and it appears that they do. The difference is in the link from the booster to the pedals; the '68 link isn't the correct length to reach the '67 pedals. So he fits the '68 booster with a different link, which is adjustable length. I don't know what it's from specifically.
As I said, I haven't done the conversion/installation yet, but by eyeball and tape measure, it looks like it will all go together.
Note to others thinking about doing the manual drums to power drums conversion: You'll need to change out the two brake lines running from the master cylinder down to the proportioning valve. They aren't long enough to reach the new position of the master cylinder. When I tried to replace the brake hoses, I found that most of the line fittings were either rounded off or about to be rounded off. The lines are a mess. I'm replacing all of them as part of the conversion. I had assumed that I was going to have to cut, fit and flare them all myself. To my surprise, I found that I was able to order a complete pre-bent set of lines for a '67 F100 long WB with power drum brakes. The source is InLine Tubes in Michigan. The whole set cost $150 and took 3 weeks. Well worth it for the time savings.
#23
10-07-2010, 10:33 PM
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I just got the conversion kit:
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/MC-kit.jpg">
I was surprised to see there are no instructions with it. I have not messed with power brake boosters before. What is the gold colored rod for? the other bigger silver one is an adjustable one which goes to the brake pedal. Are there any online instructions about doing this?
also while I was looking at the master cylinder a piece slipped out of the back of it, I'm assuming the flat side goes in first and the concave side sticks out?
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/MC.jpg">
I plan on doing this on Saturday.
thanks,
Wade
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/MC-kit.jpg">
I was surprised to see there are no instructions with it. I have not messed with power brake boosters before. What is the gold colored rod for? the other bigger silver one is an adjustable one which goes to the brake pedal. Are there any online instructions about doing this?
also while I was looking at the master cylinder a piece slipped out of the back of it, I'm assuming the flat side goes in first and the concave side sticks out?
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/MC.jpg">
I plan on doing this on Saturday.
thanks,
Wade
#24
10-08-2010, 09:12 AM
Crazed87Bronco;
The line kit includes all of the metal brake lines in the whole truck. It doesn't include the three flex hoses, which you can get from various other suppliers. The quality and workmanship of the lines is top grade, as far as I can tell. For an extra $50, they'll make them up in stainless, if you want. The company apparently has been supplying Detroit with brake lines for a long time, and they also are the main aftermarket supplier. They have an extensive of computer files and they CNC bend the sets right to the factory specs.
I don't know for sure about the size of your brake lines, but it's probably 3/16". It'll measure about 0.195" OD.
Wade;
That master cylinder is also used in the manual drums installation, so that gold link is probably for that; not needed with the booster.
The line kit includes all of the metal brake lines in the whole truck. It doesn't include the three flex hoses, which you can get from various other suppliers. The quality and workmanship of the lines is top grade, as far as I can tell. For an extra $50, they'll make them up in stainless, if you want. The company apparently has been supplying Detroit with brake lines for a long time, and they also are the main aftermarket supplier. They have an extensive of computer files and they CNC bend the sets right to the factory specs.
I don't know for sure about the size of your brake lines, but it's probably 3/16". It'll measure about 0.195" OD.
Wade;
That master cylinder is also used in the manual drums installation, so that gold link is probably for that; not needed with the booster.
#25
10-10-2010, 05:59 PM
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OK I got the power brakes installed and working today. If I did it again I would get the power brake set up from a 1968 truck. I believe that is the first year power brakes were available. What would be needed is the brake pedal and mounting bracket since they are different in the 2 trucks, and then the booster and MC.
In my case I have a set up with brackets that the booster bolts too and then the brackets bolt to the firewall. This leaves the hole in the firewall exposed where the rod goes through that connects the pedal to the booster.
The rod was too long and I had to cut it down 3/4", I could not use the brake switch or the bolt that connected the rod to the brake pedal. I am going to use a pressure switch at the master cylinder.
The 2 brake lines I removed had different fittings, there were 4 different sizes in all. I bought (2) 40" brake lines from NAPA and had to use 3 different adapters to get them to work. I put the loops back in the lines by bending them around my Mag light.
Anyway, It would have been easier going to a junkyard and getting what I needed off a 68 truck. But it's working now and gotta get used to it. almost sent me through the windshield!
In my case I have a set up with brackets that the booster bolts too and then the brackets bolt to the firewall. This leaves the hole in the firewall exposed where the rod goes through that connects the pedal to the booster.
The rod was too long and I had to cut it down 3/4", I could not use the brake switch or the bolt that connected the rod to the brake pedal. I am going to use a pressure switch at the master cylinder.
The 2 brake lines I removed had different fittings, there were 4 different sizes in all. I bought (2) 40" brake lines from NAPA and had to use 3 different adapters to get them to work. I put the loops back in the lines by bending them around my Mag light.
Anyway, It would have been easier going to a junkyard and getting what I needed off a 68 truck. But it's working now and gotta get used to it. almost sent me through the windshield!
#26
10-10-2010, 07:30 PM
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I took a few photos:
original vacuum fitting:
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/originalvacuumfitting.jpg">
</pre>needed to find 3/8" pipe thread for the manifold, I believe most vacuum fittings are the same in most cars. I did see some online for chevy's that had the same thread.
I went to a specialty store and just pieced something together:
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/newvacuumfitting.jpg">
</pre>
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/newvacuumfitting2.jpg">
</pre>
original master cylinder:
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/originalmastercylinder.jpg">
lines going down to distribution block:
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/brakelines.jpg">
</pre>
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/distribution-block.jpg">
</pre>New master cylinder:
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/newbooster.jpg">
</pre>you can see the hole left in the firewall, I'll probably figure a way to cover that and leave just enough of a hole for the rod to pass through:
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/firewall.jpg">
</pre>original brake pedal set up:
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/originalbrakepedal.jpg">
</pre>new pedal set up, the brake switch would not work, I got a 3/8 16 grade 8 hardened bolt and used nylon washer in addition to steel washers and a locking nut.
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/newbrakepedal.jpg">
this master cylinder is set up to accept lines on each side. I plan on drilling one of the plugs and using a 1/8 NPT tap to fit the pressure switch for the brakes.
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/plugs.jpg">
</pre>
original vacuum fitting:
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/originalvacuumfitting.jpg">
</pre>needed to find 3/8" pipe thread for the manifold, I believe most vacuum fittings are the same in most cars. I did see some online for chevy's that had the same thread.
I went to a specialty store and just pieced something together:
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/newvacuumfitting.jpg">
</pre>
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/newvacuumfitting2.jpg">
</pre>
original master cylinder:
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/originalmastercylinder.jpg">
lines going down to distribution block:
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/brakelines.jpg">
</pre>
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/distribution-block.jpg">
</pre>New master cylinder:
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/newbooster.jpg">
</pre>you can see the hole left in the firewall, I'll probably figure a way to cover that and leave just enough of a hole for the rod to pass through:
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/firewall.jpg">
</pre>original brake pedal set up:
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/originalbrakepedal.jpg">
</pre>new pedal set up, the brake switch would not work, I got a 3/8 16 grade 8 hardened bolt and used nylon washer in addition to steel washers and a locking nut.
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/newbrakepedal.jpg">
this master cylinder is set up to accept lines on each side. I plan on drilling one of the plugs and using a 1/8 NPT tap to fit the pressure switch for the brakes.
<img src="http://mymach1mustang.com/truckfiles/powerbrakes/plugs.jpg">
</pre>
#27
10-15-2010, 04:31 PM
OK. This is all great info but I am still confused a little. What is the best year to get a donor truck from so it is a "bolt on" exchange? Meaning no major mods. Is there any pics or vids to support doing this on FTE? And Yes this will be my first conversion attempt and I don't want to wind up with my grill in someone elses trunk or bed. Thanks for all of the great info so far.
67 Ford F-100 352FE 2WD 3 on the Tree
Thanks, Marc
67 Ford F-100 352FE 2WD 3 on the Tree
Thanks, Marc
#28
02-28-2013, 10:31 AM
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#29
02-28-2013, 10:43 AM
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manual to power drum brakes conversion
Hello All: Has anybody used the kit form Carolina Classic Trucks that Wade67 references? I've got a 67 F-100, manual/drums, also looking to convert to power/drums (for now). If the Carolina kit works, in the interest of time, I'm inclined to go that route. Please share any experiences. Thanks!
#30
01-22-2014, 11:43 PM
I picked up a master cyl & power booster from a 70 with all drums from PnP had them rebuilt. It was a ez install everything matched up, then hooked up vac. line into manifold to booster. Ez to Bleed master done:
Ah sure made my 4wd drum brakes easier to stop.
I really needed the power brakes due bum right knee that kept me in pain for a few days after driving a short time.
I was very pleased with power brake even tho they were all drums.
I've have since then changed out the front axle with a 44HD with Disc brakes. The Disc brakes verses drums is maybe about 10-15% better with about the same foot pressure. I really switched front axles because it was a heavy duty over mind. Plus it was hard finding new inner parts for it.
Some times when buying after market stuff have bad luck.
Missing some little parts or the wrong part was added by mistake.
I hate most after market stuff, as it seems you have to change something else. or grind, cut, or extend too use the aftermarket item..
orich
Ah sure made my 4wd drum brakes easier to stop.
I really needed the power brakes due bum right knee that kept me in pain for a few days after driving a short time.
I was very pleased with power brake even tho they were all drums.
I've have since then changed out the front axle with a 44HD with Disc brakes. The Disc brakes verses drums is maybe about 10-15% better with about the same foot pressure. I really switched front axles because it was a heavy duty over mind. Plus it was hard finding new inner parts for it.
Some times when buying after market stuff have bad luck.
Missing some little parts or the wrong part was added by mistake.
I hate most after market stuff, as it seems you have to change something else. or grind, cut, or extend too use the aftermarket item..
orich