I am always a little leary of performance mods that help mpg. The ones I know of that do in the real world usually lean out the combustion mixture from a little rich, past stioch, to a little lean. But lean is also hot.

Sometimes bumping timing and increasing octane can increase mpg safely, though not fuel cost per mile.

A lot of mods that make more power will eat more fuel, but again, if it shifts the mix too rich instead of burning more it can be washing down the cylinders which is bad.

So what's your experience with mods that make more power on the v-10. What do they do to your MPG?

-Jim

 

My opinion (sorta proven) is that reducing pumping losses, internal friction & rolling resistance can help with both power and MPG.

Pumping losses are those losses that occur when the engine must overcome restrictions such as the intake of air & exhaust of spent gasses. It must use it's own power [i]to make power[i/]. Hmmm??...

We all know about opening up our intake and exhaust. Sometimes this can shift the powerband up. But if done properly and thought out it can help to improve both power and MPG across the usable rev range.

Let me expand....

Ripping off the intake completely and removing all the exhaust system is not the way to go.

I have opened up my intake with a low restriction filter, did the ZooDad to help funnel in non-heated air, installed a low restriction muffler and use only synthetic oils everywhere.

This to me accomplished my "mission" to reduce pumping losses & help cut internal friction (on a budget).

Most know that my truck was wrecked a week ago and that I've been driving a 2003 V10 Excursion (rental). This rental truck has 7K on it and only averages about 11.5 city and 14 on the highway. I drive the same routes as normal and have made no changes in driving style or habit.

But this truck is all stock. Stock restrictive intake, stock tractor muffler and 5W-20 oil (semi-synth) Some will argue that it is not broken in yet but I disagree. It was broken in at 5K but that's another arguement....

MY truck will post 13.2-13.5 AVERAGE all day long! I regularly get 16 on the highway. Is it the mods? YES. I betchya that if I swapped out all the aftermarket parts for stock parts I'd lose the 1.5 - 2 MPG I gained. Plus this new V10 has the restrictive Y-pipe and mine doesn't. It was really hard for me to believe that I could get almost a 20% increase in mileage (comparitively speaking) but after 40 some odd thousand miles with the mods and MANY, MANY manual calculations...well....

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I believe that the computer will compensate for rich/lean conditions to a point. I'm not sure what mods you were referring to.

If you really want to increase mileage on the motorhome of yours play with tire pressures.

 

Great discussion! Monsta - ZooDad the rental and tell us if it improves mpg's. Do a neat job and they'll never know.

Matt

 

My '01 Excursion V-10 4x4 gets 13 mpg city consistently, and 15 mpg on the highway. I've been monitoring via computer & odometer since Jan '03.

I've gone back & forth between my K&N filter and Motorcraft OEM, not a lot of difference. Here are the other things I've done:

Mobil 1 5w/30 full synthetic
BFG All Terrain KO tires 55f/60r
Flowmaster 50 muffler (3" in/dual 2.5" out) with 4 inch tips
not too heavy on the gas in town, cruise control at 70mph hwy
Motorcraft fluids in all other components (30k svc at Ford dealer)

I'm at 34.5k miles on my truck, runs great, check oil every week--haven't had to add in the 2 oil changes I've made (dealer and Jiffy lube).

I get these readings consistently.

I think the biggest variable is the lead foot and tire pressure in my humble opinion.

Regards,

Karl
Las Colinas/Irving, TX

 

As I stated in the other post, I actually saw approx. 10% improvement in MPG with the Banks Powerpack. However, it's important that you put these % claims into perspective. At 10%, that is less than 2mpg!! Not a big gain for the $$ spent on the exhaust.

I've had 4 different vehicles "Superchipped". All saw a marked improvement in performance with NO decrease in economy. Only one of those vehicles ('93 F150) actually saw a measurable increase in economy. But what a fun bunch of trucks to drive!

IMO, performance mods are just that- for performance. If they happen to yield a slight improvement in economy, that is just a bonus. You have to realize that if you only want improved mpg, these mods will take a very, very long time to pay for themselves- and that includes synthetic fluids, filters, and even just a simple muffler swap.

The best way to get improved economy is to lighten the load and slow down. Anything else is going to cost money that takes a lot of time to recoup.

 

Good discussion - I hadn't really thought about friction and pumping losses Monsta - good points.

In my general experience, major performance mods usually use
more fuel & air to get more power - basic laws of physics.

Add a supercharger or a race cam, use a lot more fuel.

Pumping losses on exhaust make a lot of sense to me - reduce the back pressure, reduce the energy needed to push out the gasses that are close to fixed volume (except for the small variable amount that stays in the cylinder based on pressure). Now scavenginging makes it a little more complex - a good scavengine exhaust will SUCK exhaust out of other cylinders using the venturi effect, but get to radical and it will suck out some fuel too (depending on cam lobe overlap).

Now intake resistance I have to think about. Probably a high resistance intake eats a bit of energy to overcome the restriction, but the restriction also limits air, which limits fuel, which would help gas mileage. So we have to know whether the pumping loss or throttle limiting effect dominates to know what the effect on mileage would be. Intake charge is more variable than exhaust.

-Jim

 

a couple months ago i wwas watching a car performance show on TNN. they swapped out all the fluids (engine, tranny & rear end) on a camaro and replaced w/ synthetics. the did a before and after on the dyno. i forget the figures, but it was a significant increase in power due to reduction in frcition. they also indicated that mileage would/should improve. makes sense...less friction, less throttle needed.

the cool thing was that the show wasn't plugging a brand of synthetics, so i don't think it was an info-mertial type of test. seemed legit to me.

when i need to start changing fluids...i will definately go this route.

 

I did before and after on a dyno with 5w30 dino juice and 0w30 Synthetic when it came out. It was good for 2 hp. No idea if it helped MPG. This was on a 96 v-8 SHO.

-Jim

 

2hp?? That's well within the margin of error for a dyno operator! I doubt it did anything...

 

if i recall the camaro gained 9 hp from 30_? to 31_?

heck...monsta may be right....maybe it didn;t make a difference....but as mods go...changing to synthetic is only going to help your engine IMO. if you get better performance or mileage....thats just an added plus!

 

3 runs with, 3 without, average 2hp gain. Back to back runs. Small but I think real I think I got 2 hp or so from the K&N stock filter replacement too. Cat to straight pipe was worth 4 or 5. Superchip prototype I has was a loss of 4 I think. Later they got me one with a small gain after a number of trys. This was the first production vehicle with the EEC V and they had not really decoded it well yet.

-Jim

 

Hey Guys,

Glad I dropped in. Been thinking about doing a few mods on my 02, 250HD Crew with 6spd to increase mpgs. These are my thoughts. Install K&N fuel injection, coupled with Superchips tuner and installing an aeroturbine muffler. Lastly drop on a fibreglass shell.

Is this a good combination or should I just go with aeroturbine muffler along with K & N air filter?

All help is appreciated.



Tedmeister

 

My take is any thing to make the engine work easier at low speeds will help mileage.I have an increase in mileage.Any exhaust work will yield results.

 

Has anyone here had any experience with Superchips model 1715. Also wondering what is the best route for exhaust for fuel and performance improvement, I have a 2001 F-250 super cab. Thanks for any input.

 

Mossygoose, i have the superchip tuner and love it.Headers with a new y-pipe is gonna help w/performance and mileage.A lot of folks like the Banks stuff, but it is too expensive for my taste.Watching your driving habits helps the most with mileage.Welcome to FTE Lots of knowledgeable folks here.