Go Back  Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Super Duty/Heavy Duty > 2017+ Super Duty
Reload this Page >

Fully-Boxed Frame on SuperDuty: Your Opinions

Notices
2017+ Super Duty The 2017+ Ford F250, F350, F450 and F550 Super Duty Pickup and Chassis Cab
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Fully-Boxed Frame on SuperDuty: Your Opinions

 
  #1  
Old 09-11-2010, 11:43 PM
fordpstroke11
fordpstroke11 is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lewis County, WV, USA
Posts: 86
fordpstroke11 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Talking Fully-Boxed Frame on SuperDuty: Your Opinions

Who thinks that the Super Duty pickup's C-Channel frame puts the new GM HD's fully-boxed frame to shame? You get more towing with a C-Channel. Would this mean that if Ford made the SuperDuty frame fully-boxed that it could tow EVEN MORE?? What is everybody's opinions Ford Truck Enthusiasts?
 
  #2  
Old 09-12-2010, 12:44 AM
MARCUSO's Avatar
MARCUSO
MARCUSO is offline
Freshman User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 48
MARCUSO is starting off with a positive reputation.
What does towing capacity have to do with frame rigidity?
I would think things like your motor and brakes would determine that.
 
  #3  
Old 09-12-2010, 06:37 AM
nitrogen's Avatar
nitrogen
nitrogen is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Carstairs Alberta
Posts: 1,914
nitrogen has a superb reputationnitrogen has a superb reputationnitrogen has a superb reputationnitrogen has a superb reputationnitrogen has a superb reputationnitrogen has a superb reputationnitrogen has a superb reputationnitrogen has a superb reputationnitrogen has a superb reputationnitrogen has a superb reputationnitrogen has a superb reputation
well the frame is essentially a set of paralel beams. the rigidity of a beam defines how much weight it can support. that said boxing it will add more weight, and there is alimit how heavy you can go and still stay in the same weight class. sure you get higher capacity, but that call for heavier brakes, and heavier drivetrain etc.theres a name for that F650. problem is now you need a commercial licence tp operate and you have to run logs an other stuff.
 
  #4  
Old 09-12-2010, 07:15 AM
senix's Avatar
senix
senix is online now
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 29,697
senix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputation
fully boxed does have it's benefits, but upfitters find it a challenge.
 
  #5  
Old 09-12-2010, 07:25 AM
m350
m350 is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Eastern CT.
Posts: 2,181
m350 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
The F-150 has had that boxed frame for the last several years,,I recall seeing it on TV,,,I am not sold on it though,,,if it's so good,,,How come Large trucks dont use it?
If, when its start rusting/ rotting from the inside out ,,,,then what?
No way to even hose off inside it!

Atleast with C-channel frames you have a good place to mount brake lines, Fuel lines and Harness's!
 
  #6  
Old 09-12-2010, 08:00 AM
Tom's Avatar
Tom
Tom is offline
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Isanti, MN
Posts: 23,682
Tom has a superb reputationTom has a superb reputationTom has a superb reputationTom has a superb reputationTom has a superb reputationTom has a superb reputationTom has a superb reputationTom has a superb reputationTom has a superb reputationTom has a superb reputationTom has a superb reputation
Originally Posted by m350 View Post
I am not sold on it though,,,if it's so good,,,How come Large trucks dont use it?
I don't know about that, I'd be willing to bet it has more to do with the fact that it's unnecessary and would be much more expensive to make.

The commercial truck market isn't anything like the car and light truck market. "Fun to drive" and "nice ride" take a distant second to low operating costs.

A brand-new road tractor with a 15L engine, 13-speed transmission, large sleeper, and an 80,000 lb capacity sells for less than $130K. Compared to a super duty that's an awful lot of truck for $130K!

If someone came up with a fully boxed frame for $5K-10K more nobody would buy it!
 
  #7  
Old 09-12-2010, 09:00 AM
bucci's Avatar
bucci
bucci is offline
Elder User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Jessup, PA
Posts: 842
bucci is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.bucci is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Originally Posted by Crazy001 View Post
I don't know about that, I'd be willing to bet it has more to do with the fact that it's unnecessary and would be much more expensive to make.
I agree with that.

Strength and rigidity are not the same thing. My thoughts are if tractor frames were boxed and more rigid, they would need complicated designs to prevent welds from breaking, cross members from cracking and rivets from coming loose.

With the amount of torsional forces applied on a tractor's frame it is easier and more ecomonical to design frames that are strong enough for the torsions forces but are made to flex under the load. With the flexing, the forces are transmitted over a broader area.

With more rigidity, I think the loads have a tendency to become more concentrated to a smaller area or pinpointed.

Watch a tractor without a trailer attached take off from a start and you will see the frame flex and twist a little.
 
  #8  
Old 09-12-2010, 11:31 AM
Snowseeker's Avatar
Snowseeker
Snowseeker is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Stevens Point, WI
Posts: 13,340
Snowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputation
Boxed frame isn't needed and can only cause problems. It holds dirt, moister, salt, etc. it will rot out like the toyota trucks do guarantied. Also like mentioned it takes away a place to mount brake lines and wire harness's exposing them even more to debris and possible road shrapnel.

A boxed in frame can be smaller and have the same strength as a bigger C-channel but the downfalls aren't worth it.
 
  #9  
Old 09-12-2010, 11:48 AM
Furian's Avatar
Furian
Furian is offline
You Keep What You Kill
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Huntersville, NC
Posts: 4,903
Furian has a great reputation on FTE.Furian has a great reputation on FTE.Furian has a great reputation on FTE.Furian has a great reputation on FTE.
The Ford Super Duty uses the Open-C-frame to support the mutiple OEM configurations and the 2nd-unit aftermarket. See video for details.

YouTube - Video 2008 Ford SuperDuty - Frame Strength
 
  #10  
Old 09-12-2010, 11:55 AM
Snowseeker's Avatar
Snowseeker
Snowseeker is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Stevens Point, WI
Posts: 13,340
Snowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputationSnowseeker has a superb reputation
Originally Posted by Furian View Post
The Ford Super Duty uses the Open-C-frame to support the mutiple OEM configurations and the 2nd-unit aftermarket. See video for details.

YouTube - Video 2008 Ford SuperDuty - Frame Strength

I wish my whole frame and suspension was all powder coated like that one.
 
  #11  
Old 09-12-2010, 02:40 PM
Fordfanatic4life
Fordfanatic4life is offline
Postmaster
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Richmond BC
Posts: 3,924
Fordfanatic4life has a very good reputation on FTE.Fordfanatic4life has a very good reputation on FTE.Fordfanatic4life has a very good reputation on FTE.Fordfanatic4life has a very good reputation on FTE.
i like the guys dig on the HD dodge comparing it more to the F150 capability.. haahh nice one...

having used to own fully boxed Toyota's in my youth i can tell you first hand how crappy of a design that can be once the truck gets older.. crap builds up inside there and rots the frame from the inside out..

give me a strong open C-channel anyday...
 
  #12  
Old 09-12-2010, 05:26 PM
DIXIEDOG1's Avatar
DIXIEDOG1
DIXIEDOG1 is offline
Elder User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 519
DIXIEDOG1 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.DIXIEDOG1 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Originally Posted by Snowseeker View Post
Boxed frame isn't needed and can only cause problems. It holds dirt, moister, salt, etc. it will rot out like the toyota trucks do guarantied. Also like mentioned it takes away a place to mount brake lines and wire harness's exposing them even more to debris and possible road shrapnel.

A boxed in frame can be smaller and have the same strength as a bigger C-channel but the downfalls aren't worth it.

This
 
  #13  
Old 09-13-2010, 05:30 AM
bubbasz1's Avatar
bubbasz1
bubbasz1 is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Redford, Mi.
Posts: 1,948
bubbasz1 has a very good reputation on FTE.bubbasz1 has a very good reputation on FTE.bubbasz1 has a very good reputation on FTE.
Sometimes you need a little flex, many a semi tractor has had to have the frame fixed for cracks and what not. It's all engineered to work like they do(Superduty's) I'll keep mine.
 
  #14  
Old 09-13-2010, 06:55 AM
M88
M88 is offline
Senior User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central NY
Posts: 166
M88 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Originally Posted by bucci View Post
I agree with that.

Strength and rigidity are not the same thing. My thoughts are if tractor frames were boxed and more rigid, they would need complicated designs to prevent welds from breaking, cross members from cracking and rivets from coming loose.

With the amount of torsional forces applied on a tractor's frame it is easier and more ecomonical to design frames that are strong enough for the torsions forces but are made to flex under the load. With the flexing, the forces are transmitted over a broader area.

With more rigidity, I think the loads have a tendency to become more concentrated to a smaller area or pinpointed.

Watch a tractor without a trailer attached take off from a start and you will see the frame flex and twist a little.
Turn up the pump enough and it'll pick up one of the front wheels!

Why switch to a boxed frame if the C channel works, doesn't break and tows fine?
 
  #15  
Old 09-13-2010, 04:48 PM
bucci's Avatar
bucci
bucci is offline
Elder User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Jessup, PA
Posts: 842
bucci is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.bucci is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Originally Posted by M88 View Post
Turn up the pump enough and it'll pick up one of the front wheels!

Why switch to a boxed frame if the C channel works, doesn't break and tows fine?

I wouldn't switch to a boxed frame. I prefer a C channel.
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Fully-Boxed Frame on SuperDuty: Your Opinions


Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.