Fully-Boxed Frame on SuperDuty: Your Opinions
#46
05-29-2011, 06:21 AM
#47
05-29-2011, 09:56 AM
The Ford Super Duty uses the Open-C-frame to support the mutiple OEM configurations and the 2nd-unit aftermarket. See video for details.
YouTube - Video 2008 Ford SuperDuty - Frame Strength
YouTube - Video 2008 Ford SuperDuty - Frame Strength
#48
05-29-2011, 10:48 AM
Hotshot
The boxed frame deal is just a marketing ploy. Just wait after a few years when people start having problems. I foresee not only rust problems with the frame (toyota recall) but also bent/tweeked frames and/or cracked/broken frames. Pretty much everything "new" sounds great until it is real world tested like the 6.0.
#49
05-29-2011, 10:48 AM
The '97-03 F150s had a fully boxed front frame as well. I wonder why they changed it...
#50
05-29-2011, 10:51 AM
The boxed frame deal is just a marketing ploy. Just wait after a few years when people start having problems. I foresee not only rust problems with the frame (toyota recall) but also bent/tweeked frames and/or cracked/broken frames. Pretty much everything "new" sounds great until it is real world tested like the 6.0.
#51
05-29-2011, 11:04 AM
Hotshot
#52
05-29-2011, 11:06 AM
I've never really understood why this is such a hotly debated topic.
And now we're doing the same thing. Dodge and Chevy have something we don't have, and so we try endlessly to convince ourselves that what we have is better. I believe this to be basic human nature, as we all like to think that our choice is better in every way, but this is rarely the case.
...but nobody can be best at everything!
And now we're doing the same thing. Dodge and Chevy have something we don't have, and so we try endlessly to convince ourselves that what we have is better. I believe this to be basic human nature, as we all like to think that our choice is better in every way, but this is rarely the case.
...but nobody can be best at everything!
#53
05-29-2011, 11:16 AM
And for the purposes of this discussion it's a good thing we aren't on a heavy truck forum! Heck, we're not even discussing heavy trucks!
Comparing a 10,000 lb GVWR pickup truck to a 52,000 LB GVWR road tractor makes about sense as it would comparing my Mustang to your Excursion.
Fully boxed frames have been around for years in light trucks. I'm still waiting on someone to prove me wrong about their unsuitability for a truck.
Comparing a 10,000 lb GVWR pickup truck to a 52,000 LB GVWR road tractor makes about sense as it would comparing my Mustang to your Excursion.
Fully boxed frames have been around for years in light trucks. I'm still waiting on someone to prove me wrong about their unsuitability for a truck.
#55
05-29-2011, 11:47 AM
Boxed versus open C frames...
My 32 year old IH Scout has a boxed frame with no rot and it's still running strong with (original 345 4 speed) who knows how many miles - of course it was a California Scout, they're not quite known to be rust impervious vehicles.
I think there are advantages to each design.
The boxed frame is a stronger basic design and if properly designed (with water drain holes and rustproofing spray) it should be a more rigid platform that should perform better on a normal road surface. The stable platform allows the suspension to work consistently on a firm surface.
I think the advantage of the open C is moderate flex which allows the high torque semi's to flex the chassis (to prevent weld cracks in a boxed frame), and to allow off road excursions the ability to flex a bit over rough terrain (to keep the tires in contact with the ground) to give better traction. I knew of a few ranchers out West who loved the old diesel Isuzu PU's, they covered long distances on little fuel and were rarely stuck - they commented on how the chassis flexed to keep contact with the ground over irregular terrain.
I think there are advantages to each design.
The boxed frame is a stronger basic design and if properly designed (with water drain holes and rustproofing spray) it should be a more rigid platform that should perform better on a normal road surface. The stable platform allows the suspension to work consistently on a firm surface.
I think the advantage of the open C is moderate flex which allows the high torque semi's to flex the chassis (to prevent weld cracks in a boxed frame), and to allow off road excursions the ability to flex a bit over rough terrain (to keep the tires in contact with the ground) to give better traction. I knew of a few ranchers out West who loved the old diesel Isuzu PU's, they covered long distances on little fuel and were rarely stuck - they commented on how the chassis flexed to keep contact with the ground over irregular terrain.
#56
05-29-2011, 12:52 PM
Boxed frame isn't needed and can only cause problems. It holds dirt, moister, salt, etc. it will rot out like the toyota trucks do guarantied. Also like mentioned it takes away a place to mount brake lines and wire harness's exposing them even more to debris and possible road shrapnel.
A boxed in frame can be smaller and have the same strength as a bigger C-channel but the downfalls aren't worth it.
A boxed in frame can be smaller and have the same strength as a bigger C-channel but the downfalls aren't worth it.
#57
10-07-2011, 09:01 AM
Hi,
does anyone know something about the next HD Model? Would be interesting to know wheather or not ford is going boxed in the HD segment in the next years.
Since Dodge and Chevy HD are both boxed now and the F-150 as well, i guess it's just a matter of time.
And it would be interesting, how mich thinner the material will be i it gets boxed.
Greetings
does anyone know something about the next HD Model? Would be interesting to know wheather or not ford is going boxed in the HD segment in the next years.
Since Dodge and Chevy HD are both boxed now and the F-150 as well, i guess it's just a matter of time.
And it would be interesting, how mich thinner the material will be i it gets boxed.
Greetings
#58
10-07-2011, 11:39 AM
Posting Guru
I like the comparison FourWheeler Magazine did the best showcasing some of the downsides of a fully boxed frame on such a heavy pickup.
2011 Pickup Truck Of The Year - Four Wheeler Magazine
2011 Pickup Truck Of The Year - Four Wheeler Magazine
So if the Raptor was an undisputed joy to drive in the dirt, the Chevy Silverado HD was our penalty box. With a punishing ride and stunning lack of flex, the Silverado spent much of its time watching the other trucks at play.
When it was on the trail, the street-tuned suspension and limited travel was unrelenting in the way it jiggled our guts and made our backs long for the next available chiropractic appointment. At any speeds over a crawl, testers could be heard wondering aloud where all those IFS benefits we've heard all about were.
One concern was the poorly protected undercarriage, with nothing more than a sheet of Rubbermaid protecting some vital components. And although we never hit it, the 5.8-gallon urea tank is hung without protection in a vulnerable location that had us cringing every time we encountered rocks. Steel skidplates should be the bare minimum to any truck that has any pretenses about leaving the pavement.
Thankfully, it wasn't all bad for the Silverado in the dirt. It did master the hill climb, where it easily walked up the rock-strewn slope, thanks to a mix of wheelbase, traction control, and the Eaton G80 rear locker. A very well-engineered exhaust brake somewhat made up for the lack of HDC.
This brings us to the surprise of the test, the Super Duty, which seemed to surpass everyone's expectations. Not only was the solid-axle truck compliant in the dirt, but it did well just about everywhere, except for deep sand and undulating rollers.
The selectable rear locker similar to that of the Raptor and newfound suspension tuning helped push the Super Duty as close as it has ever been to Power Wagon territory. The F-250 walked up the hill climb with comparable ease as the Chevy, but was then able to use HDC on the way down for a drama free descent.
Read more: 2011 Pickup Truck Of The Year - Four Wheeler Magazine
When it was on the trail, the street-tuned suspension and limited travel was unrelenting in the way it jiggled our guts and made our backs long for the next available chiropractic appointment. At any speeds over a crawl, testers could be heard wondering aloud where all those IFS benefits we've heard all about were.
One concern was the poorly protected undercarriage, with nothing more than a sheet of Rubbermaid protecting some vital components. And although we never hit it, the 5.8-gallon urea tank is hung without protection in a vulnerable location that had us cringing every time we encountered rocks. Steel skidplates should be the bare minimum to any truck that has any pretenses about leaving the pavement.
Thankfully, it wasn't all bad for the Silverado in the dirt. It did master the hill climb, where it easily walked up the rock-strewn slope, thanks to a mix of wheelbase, traction control, and the Eaton G80 rear locker. A very well-engineered exhaust brake somewhat made up for the lack of HDC.
This brings us to the surprise of the test, the Super Duty, which seemed to surpass everyone's expectations. Not only was the solid-axle truck compliant in the dirt, but it did well just about everywhere, except for deep sand and undulating rollers.
The selectable rear locker similar to that of the Raptor and newfound suspension tuning helped push the Super Duty as close as it has ever been to Power Wagon territory. The F-250 walked up the hill climb with comparable ease as the Chevy, but was then able to use HDC on the way down for a drama free descent.
Read more: 2011 Pickup Truck Of The Year - Four Wheeler Magazine
#60
10-07-2011, 06:46 PM
Never seen drag racing lumber trucks before but that was just cool!
I owned Dodge HD pickups when they went from a C channel chassis to their hydroformed box chassis. It's rigid no doubt. But it vibrates like a tuning fork. The ride went jittery and any driveline vibrations can't be ignored. My F250 rides ever bit as stiff as my HD Dodges rode but, the F250 feels much better with it's less rigid chassis. The Ford and previous C channel Dodges were easier to install my 5th wheel hitch than the box frame of the later Dodges.
I owned Dodge HD pickups when they went from a C channel chassis to their hydroformed box chassis. It's rigid no doubt. But it vibrates like a tuning fork. The ride went jittery and any driveline vibrations can't be ignored. My F250 rides ever bit as stiff as my HD Dodges rode but, the F250 feels much better with it's less rigid chassis. The Ford and previous C channel Dodges were easier to install my 5th wheel hitch than the box frame of the later Dodges.
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