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In my experience, the GM wax-coat frames are the worst corrosion protection. The wax comes off too easily and rust begins. Where I live, there are two powerhouse GM dealers on either side of my town (one is the largest volume dealer in New England). There are GM trucks everywhere, and many of my co-workers have them. I can tell you that 4 and 5 year old GM trucks run year round have rust scale all over their frames whereas the e-coat Fords and RAMs have much less of that scale at the same age. Just my experience.
My extended family are all GM buyers, and have been for as long as I can remember. Where do they live? Upstate NY. In all my time spent up there for the holidays and special occasions, GM's were the most rusted out vehicles on the road compared to the Ford's and Dodge/Ram's of the same generations. Dodge had some pretty badly rusted bodies, but the chassis were good compared to the GM's.
My brother has owned a 2006 Tacoma since new (he lives up there too). 2 years ago, the frame was replaced under their recall. When he took it in, it split in half on the lift...
My position is this. If you are big home builder (I know I will be one day to) or big farmer with thousands of cattle you can go with boxed frame. You will sell truck in 5 years and buy new one. If you are like me and buy 10 years old truck you will not buy boxed frame. What is chance that owner(s) used cavity waxes? Maybe 1 in 50. 10 years old boxed frame truck is not worth buying. Not only Ford but others too. Btw I do not have definitely proof that cavity waxes in boxed frame work. I have proof that cold galvanizing and other paints applied yearly slow rust. But I do not have anything that is proved for cavities. As I show in post #235 of boxed frame of my old Infinity 97 I do not have defense against rust from inside out. Especially if I bought it 10 years old. I look in Cosmoline, Fluid Film, Krown etc, but they all are messy.
Some vehicles were designed from the start to utilize a flexible frame to assist with the suspension system - e.g. the Mercedes Unimog.
A fully-boxed frame still will flex, just less than the open C frame. It does allow the suspension to do a better job with movement and damping control. It also allows suspension engineers to fine-tune a little better.
The Ford frames will be completely fine. F-150 has been fully-boxed since 2004. Those frames are not cracking, breaking, or rotting any more than the C-frames would be. Yes, a 150 might not be worked as hard, but some owners routinely overload and overwork their 150's.
Likewise, RAM and GM have been running full box frames for a few years now on their HDs, without any issues.
I know guys with GM HDs and their frames all went to crap. My father's is one. Meanwhile, my '03 F-350 looks decent. I still drive a '94 Dodge dually with a Cummins, too.
I still cannot understand why this all companies do not simply hot dip galvanize boxed frame and all problems are solved. Than advise in hand book for applying of cavity waxes yearly. And it is all. Gm use waxes for undercoating. How first galvanize and than wax? Ford make new truck all from aluminum but they have non galvanized boxed steel frame? They figured out that they need to galvanize lower control arm. But none come to idea to galvanize frame??? Is it more difficult to replace frame or lower control arm if rust out?
I spray my two trucks ('03 Super Duty 7.3L and '94 Dodge Cummins dually 3500) with a solution of 3/4 old (but unused) motor oil and 1/4 diesel. Both are C channel frames. Dodge is 25 years old and the Ford is 16.
Not looking forward to the day when I have to get a new pickup and it has a fully boxed frame.
I still cannot understand why this all companies do not simply hot dip galvanize boxed frame and all problems are solved. Than advise in hand book for applying of cavity waxes yearly. And it is all. Gm use waxes for undercoating. How first galvanize and than wax? Ford make new truck all from aluminum but they have non galvanized boxed steel frame? They figured out that they need to galvanize lower control arm. But none come to idea to galvanize frame???
Cost. Have you ever commissioned a piece of steel to be hot dipped galvanized? It ranges between a $1 to $1.50 per pound. Ford fights to reduce costs by 10 cents per vehicle... so $1.50 per pound per vehicle is a huge cost. By the time that cost is marked up and passed on to the final customer, it is trebled, so figure the truck would retail for an additional $4.00 per pound of frame... well over $1,000 more per vehicle.
Notwithstanding, some commercial customers demand galvanized frames, and therefore Ford provides them on the F-59 stripped chassis, which is a platform for building commercial walk in "step" vans for parcel delivery:
Photo who may interest. You can see that rust hole is exactly at middle of angled frame member. You can see angled frame member 2 bolts head left and right at bottom of C frame members. So imagine what would be from that frame if it would be O, so called boxed, frame or if I would not use CGC along frame. So basically 6" of frame that was semi boxed and hole is right there. And as I said nowhere else.
Apparently Toyota pickups if owner want warranty at frame they need to apply at stealership "Corrosion resistant compound" that is Noxudol 300 and Noxudol for cavities. I guess once per year. Folks are not happy about it as it destroy all coveralls if you work at pickup.
The coating on the GM frames definitely comes off easily. Drag a fingernail down it and itll scratch down to bare metal. My old truck, 2008 silverado 3500, i had a poorly routed FASS hose due to my own stupidity that rubbed through. I remote started my truck one morning in the middle of winter, come out 10+ minutes later to fuel spraying everywhere and a huge stream of diesel running down my driveway... the fuel sprayed the entire underside of the truck. Not only did it melt the sealcoat on the driveway ( what a nightmare, tracking in black gunk all over) but it completely melted off the factory GM undercoating on the frame. Took it down to bare metal and it rusted like crazy not long after that...
The coating on the GM frames definitely comes off easily. Drag a fingernail down it and itll scratch down to bare metal. My old truck, 2008 silverado 3500, i had a poorly routed FASS hose due to my own stupidity that rubbed through. I remote started my truck one morning in the middle of winter, come out 10+ minutes later to fuel spraying everywhere and a huge stream of diesel running down my driveway... the fuel sprayed the entire underside of the truck. Not only did it melt the sealcoat on the driveway ( what a nightmare, tracking in black gunk all over) but it completely melted off the factory GM undercoating on the frame. Took it down to bare metal and it rusted like crazy not long after that...
Oh man, that sucks. Ya, the wax coating GM used to use is garbage! At least the 2020's are e coated like the Ford's and Ram's.
06-21-2019, 09:17 AM
Now Back to the regular Scheduled Programming
