A Word of warning about the PCV valves.
#76
04-19-2013, 11:23 AM
Senior User
Some time age I posted a problem with my PCV on my motorhome/f53. At start up there would be a puff of white smoke and would generally clear up after running for a while. I checked my PCV, and the line leading to the plenum and it was oil soaked! and when I removed the plenum cover I could see a layer of oil at the bottom of the plenum and was the obvious reason why it smoked and there was major oil consumption. after changing several PCV's with no help, I finally removed the PCV and grommet and watched as I revved the engine up and to my surprise, oil was literally filling the space where the CV would normally rest. It reminded me of excessive oil slap and it made sense that with this kind of action, the oil was sucking up the PCV and into the plenum and consequently the smoking at start up and heavy oil consumption. My question is:,, has anybody had a problem like this?,,at oil change I put the required 6 qts, is there too much oil in the engine? the protective box attached to the valve cover and where the PCV sits appears correct and yet oil jumps around like a water show in Vegas. Any ideas,,, thanks
#77
05-30-2013, 10:53 PM
Some time age I posted a problem with my PCV on my motorhome/f53. At start up there would be a puff of white smoke and would generally clear up after running for a while. I checked my PCV, and the line leading to the plenum and it was oil soaked! and when I removed the plenum cover I could see a layer of oil at the bottom of the plenum and was the obvious reason why it smoked and there was major oil consumption. after changing several PCV's with no help, I finally removed the PCV and grommet and watched as I revved the engine up and to my surprise, oil was literally filling the space where the CV would normally rest. It reminded me of excessive oil slap and it made sense that with this kind of action, the oil was sucking up the PCV and into the plenum and consequently the smoking at start up and heavy oil consumption. My question is:,, has anybody had a problem like this?,,at oil change I put the required 6 qts, is there too much oil in the engine? the protective box attached to the valve cover and where the PCV sits appears correct and yet oil jumps around like a water show in Vegas. Any ideas,,, thanks
Here is a small update that might have bearing on this.
Recently, I noticed that the Ex would blow some smoke (white/blue oil type) smoke after it had sat for 2 or more days. Oil consumption was going up, too. A small vibration was starting to become apparent in the engine at idle.
I surmised that the inside of the intake manifold was getting a misting of oil that would condense and pool in the manifold. Then when I started it up, that oil was getting burned.
So, I checked the PCV and it was fine. (of course I checked the PVC!!!) But there was a trail of oil coming out around the gasket where it plugs in.
This started some serious head scratching.
So, I got to run her for a couple of hours on a trip, and then it sat for two days. Putting a large swab on a wire in the vacuum inlet, I was able to get a swab of raw oil.
More head scratching.
Now we all know that the PCV system is supposed to regulate the pressure inside the engine, and to evacuate noxious gasses.
So, I started searching. I found that the PCV is truly a SYSTEM.
The other end of the system is apparently just as important. The breather. On the V10 there is not a breather element like we had in the past, but there is a breather hose that runs from the drivers side valve cover and runs into the intake hose just in front of the throttle valve.
Seems that the lower pressure in there is pretty necessary for the PCV to operate properly. If the air pressure going into that hose is too high, such as if the hose was open to the atmosphere, then the PCV valve will end up sucking too much air on acceleration, and start sucking out oil. The regulated lower pressure at the breather hose is a designed effect on the V10. If it was open to the atmosphere, it would need a different spring in the PCV. The breather hose also allows the cranckcase gasses to be ventilated to the intake when the PCV is closed during deceleration, preventing overpressure in the crankcase.
So, if there is anything that allows that hose to be open to the atmosphere, or that changes the air pressure at the breather hose, then trouble starts.
Open to atmosphere: The PCV draws too much air and the engine runs lean, sucks oil, and gas mileage plummets.
Clogged breather: The PCV draws too little air and the engine runs rich, crankcase pressures increase, oil starts to blow out of seals, and mileage plummets.
So, after I did the research yesterday, I decided to go out and check the breather.
The dang hose was off at the intake tube!!!!! Just barely off. sitting next the hose nipple in such a way that it was half covering it. The end of the hose was sitting flush with the main air intake tube and nearly blocked. A normal visual scan would have missed it easily. There was no clamp on this hose. Heck, I just checked fluids 3 days ago.
I put it back on and then opened the air filter housing like I was changing a filter to see if this caused it. Sure enough, it did. On top of that, when I put the housing back together, the hose fell back right to the open position as described above.
Well, it now has a clamp on that hose. I also cleaned and inspected the inside of the hose nipple and main air intake tube.
So, Check the other end of the system, folks. The hose could be loose, clogged, or have a crack in it. The grommet or hose nipples could be broken or cracked. Heck, even the hose could be enlarged over the nipple since there are no clamps!
Good luck!
#78
05-31-2013, 05:48 AM
Postmaster
Here is a small update that might have bearing on this.
Recently, I noticed that the Ex would blow some smoke (white/blue oil type) smoke after it had sat for 2 or more days. Oil consumption was going up, too. A small vibration was starting to become apparent in the engine at idle.
I surmised that the inside of the intake manifold was getting a misting of oil that would condense and pool in the manifold. Then when I started it up, that oil was getting burned.
So, I checked the PCV and it was fine. (of course I checked the PVC!!!) But there was a trail of oil coming out around the gasket where it plugs in.
This started some serious head scratching.
So, I got to run her for a couple of hours on a trip, and then it sat for two days. Putting a large swab on a wire in the vacuum inlet, I was able to get a swab of raw oil.
More head scratching.
Now we all know that the PCV system is supposed to regulate the pressure inside the engine, and to evacuate noxious gasses.
So, I started searching. I found that the PCV is truly a SYSTEM.
The other end of the system is apparently just as important. The breather. On the V10 there is not a breather element like we had in the past, but there is a breather hose that runs from the drivers side valve cover and runs into the intake hose just in front of the throttle valve.
Seems that the lower pressure in there is pretty necessary for the PCV to operate properly. If the air pressure going into that hose is too high, such as if the hose was open to the atmosphere, then the PCV valve will end up sucking too much air on acceleration, and start sucking out oil. The regulated lower pressure at the breather hose is a designed effect on the V10. If it was open to the atmosphere, it would need a different spring in the PCV. The breather hose also allows the cranckcase gasses to be ventilated to the intake when the PCV is closed during deceleration, preventing overpressure in the crankcase.
So, if there is anything that allows that hose to be open to the atmosphere, or that changes the air pressure at the breather hose, then trouble starts.
Open to atmosphere: The PCV draws too much air and the engine runs lean, sucks oil, and gas mileage plummets.
Clogged breather: The PCV draws too little air and the engine runs rich, crankcase pressures increase, oil starts to blow out of seals, and mileage plummets.
So, after I did the research yesterday, I decided to go out and check the breather.
The dang hose was off at the intake tube!!!!! Just barely off. sitting next the hose nipple in such a way that it was half covering it. The end of the hose was sitting flush with the main air intake tube and nearly blocked. A normal visual scan would have missed it easily. There was no clamp on this hose. Heck, I just checked fluids 3 days ago.
I put it back on and then opened the air filter housing like I was changing a filter to see if this caused it. Sure enough, it did. On top of that, when I put the housing back together, the hose fell back right to the open position as described above.
Well, it now has a clamp on that hose. I also cleaned and inspected the inside of the hose nipple and main air intake tube.
So, Check the other end of the system, folks. The hose could be loose, clogged, or have a crack in it. The grommet or hose nipples could be broken or cracked. Heck, even the hose could be enlarged over the nipple since there are no clamps!
Good luck!
Recently, I noticed that the Ex would blow some smoke (white/blue oil type) smoke after it had sat for 2 or more days. Oil consumption was going up, too. A small vibration was starting to become apparent in the engine at idle.
I surmised that the inside of the intake manifold was getting a misting of oil that would condense and pool in the manifold. Then when I started it up, that oil was getting burned.
So, I checked the PCV and it was fine. (of course I checked the PVC!!!) But there was a trail of oil coming out around the gasket where it plugs in.
This started some serious head scratching.
So, I got to run her for a couple of hours on a trip, and then it sat for two days. Putting a large swab on a wire in the vacuum inlet, I was able to get a swab of raw oil.
More head scratching.
Now we all know that the PCV system is supposed to regulate the pressure inside the engine, and to evacuate noxious gasses.
So, I started searching. I found that the PCV is truly a SYSTEM.
The other end of the system is apparently just as important. The breather. On the V10 there is not a breather element like we had in the past, but there is a breather hose that runs from the drivers side valve cover and runs into the intake hose just in front of the throttle valve.
Seems that the lower pressure in there is pretty necessary for the PCV to operate properly. If the air pressure going into that hose is too high, such as if the hose was open to the atmosphere, then the PCV valve will end up sucking too much air on acceleration, and start sucking out oil. The regulated lower pressure at the breather hose is a designed effect on the V10. If it was open to the atmosphere, it would need a different spring in the PCV. The breather hose also allows the cranckcase gasses to be ventilated to the intake when the PCV is closed during deceleration, preventing overpressure in the crankcase.
So, if there is anything that allows that hose to be open to the atmosphere, or that changes the air pressure at the breather hose, then trouble starts.
Open to atmosphere: The PCV draws too much air and the engine runs lean, sucks oil, and gas mileage plummets.
Clogged breather: The PCV draws too little air and the engine runs rich, crankcase pressures increase, oil starts to blow out of seals, and mileage plummets.
So, after I did the research yesterday, I decided to go out and check the breather.
The dang hose was off at the intake tube!!!!! Just barely off. sitting next the hose nipple in such a way that it was half covering it. The end of the hose was sitting flush with the main air intake tube and nearly blocked. A normal visual scan would have missed it easily. There was no clamp on this hose. Heck, I just checked fluids 3 days ago.
I put it back on and then opened the air filter housing like I was changing a filter to see if this caused it. Sure enough, it did. On top of that, when I put the housing back together, the hose fell back right to the open position as described above.
Well, it now has a clamp on that hose. I also cleaned and inspected the inside of the hose nipple and main air intake tube.
So, Check the other end of the system, folks. The hose could be loose, clogged, or have a crack in it. The grommet or hose nipples could be broken or cracked. Heck, even the hose could be enlarged over the nipple since there are no clamps!
Good luck!
on making sure I'm looking at the right hose. Heck I left a hose completely off the bottom of my air housing when I put it back together (didn't even know it had another hose down there). Thanks
#79
06-01-2013, 07:59 AM
At the risk of hi-jacking, but we are on the same topic - on my V10 the adapter is missing (probably hardened over the years and broken off) on the hose going from the air cleaner to the drivers side valve cover. It's nothing fancy but I've been looking everywhere for weeks now to find one. The real Ford shop manual shows a quick picture but nothing like a parts number or anything. It installs like a cam lock feature - not into a grommet like the PCV does. So I have a hose just sitting there with no way to connect it. Found the issue during a smoke test. It's a straight fitting maybe an inch or so in length - not bent at 90 degrees like others.
Does anyone have a Ford part number or a link I can go to besides the dealership? I'm going crazy trying to find one.
The truck is a 2001 F350 4X4, w/ 6.8L, auto, XLT if that helps.
Thanks for any and all help!!
Does anyone have a Ford part number or a link I can go to besides the dealership? I'm going crazy trying to find one.
The truck is a 2001 F350 4X4, w/ 6.8L, auto, XLT if that helps.
Thanks for any and all help!!
You're not gonna like this. It looks like the nipple is a integral part of the valve cover. It's $120 on Tousley ford parts. OUCH! You would think they make a replacement.
#80
06-01-2013, 08:11 AM
Senior User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Versailles, KY
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#81
06-12-2013, 10:53 PM
Christina, sorry I missed your request for a picture. I'll try to remember get one tomorrow..
An update...
I have let Zombie Crusher sit for at least two days twice now, and started it. No more smoke after start, no more hesitation on warm-up and no more engine vibration.
Who woulda thunk it? Something so simple.
An update...
I have let Zombie Crusher sit for at least two days twice now, and started it. No more smoke after start, no more hesitation on warm-up and no more engine vibration.
Who woulda thunk it? Something so simple.
#82
11-03-2013, 10:09 AM
I have the same issue. The connector just broke off. It dries out and gets brittle.
#84
11-03-2013, 11:36 AM
Wow. 8.3?
I'd say that needs more than PVC issues. I'm currently at 11.2 MPG mixed local/highway. More local than highway.
Things that I have done engine wise that have affected mileage strongly are cleaning injectors, of course the PCV valve, MAF cleaning, Engine flush to remove sludge, and removing and cleaning the throttle body /intake manifold.
I'd say the best jump was with injector cleaning. I'm not talking about just adding something to your fuel, either. I bought one of these to do all the vehicles that I currently take care of:
Most lube shops have this setup. They charge between $75 to $99 dollars around here in NJ to do it to one car.
OTC fluid is available either online or through NAPA. The only better way of cleaning them is to remove them and send them out to a shop.
I'd say that needs more than PVC issues. I'm currently at 11.2 MPG mixed local/highway. More local than highway.
Things that I have done engine wise that have affected mileage strongly are cleaning injectors, of course the PCV valve, MAF cleaning, Engine flush to remove sludge, and removing and cleaning the throttle body /intake manifold.
I'd say the best jump was with injector cleaning. I'm not talking about just adding something to your fuel, either. I bought one of these to do all the vehicles that I currently take care of:
Most lube shops have this setup. They charge between $75 to $99 dollars around here in NJ to do it to one car.
OTC fluid is available either online or through NAPA. The only better way of cleaning them is to remove them and send them out to a shop.
#85
11-03-2013, 01:47 PM
Senior User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Durham
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow. 8.3?
I'd say that needs more than PVC issues. I'm currently at 11.2 MPG mixed local/highway. More local than highway.
Things that I have done engine wise that have affected mileage strongly are cleaning injectors, of course the PCV valve, MAF cleaning, Engine flush to remove sludge, and removing and cleaning the throttle body /intake manifold.
I'd say the best jump was with injector cleaning. I'm not talking about just adding something to your fuel, either. I bought one of these to do all the vehicles that I currently take care of:
Amazon.com: OTC 7448 Fuel Injection Cleaner: Automotive
Most lube shops have this setup. They charge between $75 to $99 dollars around here in NJ to do it to one car.
OTC fluid is available either online or through NAPA. The only better way of cleaning them is to remove them and send them out to a shop.
I'd say that needs more than PVC issues. I'm currently at 11.2 MPG mixed local/highway. More local than highway.
Things that I have done engine wise that have affected mileage strongly are cleaning injectors, of course the PCV valve, MAF cleaning, Engine flush to remove sludge, and removing and cleaning the throttle body /intake manifold.
I'd say the best jump was with injector cleaning. I'm not talking about just adding something to your fuel, either. I bought one of these to do all the vehicles that I currently take care of:
Amazon.com: OTC 7448 Fuel Injection Cleaner: Automotive
Most lube shops have this setup. They charge between $75 to $99 dollars around here in NJ to do it to one car.
OTC fluid is available either online or through NAPA. The only better way of cleaning them is to remove them and send them out to a shop.
I've used Techron and Seafoam (no smoke came out) but that is it. I ordered a PVC valve today (only $4 at autozone) and will do that. I will look into the others. I haven't heard of an engine flush before. Is it recommended even if you run synthetic?
#86
11-03-2013, 01:51 PM
Yeah.. The 8.3 number is city driving only short distances. Where I live, traffic is pretty bad. I can't go a mile without hitting a red light. I haven't taken the ex on anything more than a 15 mile drive.
I've used Techron and Seafoam (no smoke came out) but that is it. I ordered a PVC valve today (only $4 at autozone) and will do that. I will look into the others. I haven't heard of an engine flush before. Is it recommended even if you run synthetic?
I've used Techron and Seafoam (no smoke came out) but that is it. I ordered a PVC valve today (only $4 at autozone) and will do that. I will look into the others. I haven't heard of an engine flush before. Is it recommended even if you run synthetic?
Using synthetic and normal oil changes will make an engine flush total overkill.
#87
11-03-2013, 02:07 PM
Senior User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Durham
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alright that is good to hear. The car has had regular oil changes (every 3k-3.5k miles). The only thing that strikes me as odd is the low city mpg, the slight vibration at idle, and the slight hesitation (hard to describe) at around 1500-1900 rpms.
#88
12-18-2013, 08:39 PM
#89
12-18-2013, 09:16 PM
#90
12-20-2013, 10:01 PM
so on the v10s if im getting this correct you cannot remove the pcv valve its all one piece ? i was looking on autozones web site and it looks like a normal pcv valve that pulls out and you put a new one in.. i have been getting really terrible fuel mileage im currently at 7.9 around town and on the highway cruising at 60mph.