SCT X3 towing experiences with V10
#1
08-08-2010, 07:09 PM
SCT X3 towing experiences with V10
I have been negligent in writing up my experiences since I got my SCT X3 from Mike at 5-Star tunes so here goes.
First I must say that what really sold me on buying a tuner was Mike himself. His focus on customer satisfaction and his willingness to answer customer questions/emails/phone calls 7 days a week is something you don't find in companies today. His knowledge of the V10 was also a major plus to me but he also knows the PSD very well too! I spent many hours on the phone with Mike asking him many questions and that is what really sold me...his willingness to spend time with people and not just blow people off. Plus he developed tunes while actually towing with his V10's...so I was sold and have been very happy. I've emailed him a few times since buying the tuner and his response time is just as quick...so that even says more. I didn't mean this to turn into an advertisement for Mike and 5-Star but you really do get him as part of this package and you will be completely satisfied with the overall experience he provides!
Next the tuner itself.
The X3 tuner holds 3 tunes and Mike can develop any kind of tune you want. For me I only wanted 87 octane tunes and I settled on 'economy', 'performance' and 'towing'.
Loading tunes to the tuner is a snap but the first time can be a bit confusing...Mike provides an excellent tutorial for you but if you need his assistance he is just a phone call away.
I must say I have never even loaded the 'performance' tune into the truck. It is on the tuner but I've never had a desire to load it...just me I guess...maybe one day I'll give it a whirl just to see what it is like???
On the 'economy' tune...I noticed a very small gain in mpg's with this tune just like Mike said...he does NOT advertise this tune as a real noticable mpg gain...but you will notice a small increase depending on your commute and driving style.
Now onto the 'towing' tune which I what I really have not reported on as of yet.
Please remember that my Ex has 4.30 gears and Mike programmed that into my tune...so my RPMs below may be slightly different than what you may expect with 3.73's...
The first thing you will notice when you load the towing tune is that your trans will not shift even unloaded until you approach 2800-3000 RPMs...Mike is delaying the shift to get the V10 into the 'sweet-spot' and that 2800-3000 RPMs IS the sweet spot for the V10. The first time I loaded the tow tune at home and was driving to go and get my TT...the RPMs were climbing and climbing and it hadn't shifted into 2nd yet...I lifted my foot off the go pedal to force a shift but it still didn't shift...then I'm thinking what is going on for like a split second and then I realized...you dummy...you loaded the towing tune!...when it does shift gears it is a much firmer shift too...you can really feel the shift.
So...I go and hitch up and hit the road...I was able to test out the tow tune on about a 300 mile one way trip to southern Indiana which included some small grades but nothing to really speak of. I noticed that it really helps to hang the shifts like that and keep the V10 in that 'sweet-spot' while driving as you really have a much improved throttle response this way. Shifting too soon and dropping RPMs causes you to lose that 'sweet-spot' of the V10 and you notice significant 'lag' on the throttle...BUT with the SCT X3 and the towing tune loaded...the throttle response while rolling down the road at 17,000#'s combined is very good without forcing a downshift!
One thing I asked Mike to change for me personally was the speed with which he allows the trans to shift into OD...he had set it at 60mph but with it being so flat in northern Indiana and me traveling many rural country roads...it is sometimes hard to achieve 60mph on these country roads...I asked him to back that shift speed off to 55mph and he immediately sent me a new tune and whalla it is loaded and it now shifts at a point that is 'tuned' for my personal likes.
Mike has also made some improvements to the fuel enrichment algorithm within the tune. Ford released their version and required you to be at 50% throttle for over 60 seconds before enriching the fuel/air ratio...after 60 seconds Ford changes the nominal 14:1 ratio to 12:1...true this will burn more fuel BUT it gives you MORE POWER...what Mike does is switch to that mode quicker while in the towing tune mode...he figures that if you are over 50% throttle...you are likely climbing a grade so you want some more power...and I agree.
Overall the things Mike does in his tune make perfect sense to me and I really like the feel in the seat of the pants while towing!
I'm really going to give his tunes a test next summer when we embark on an ~4500 mile trek from Indiana out to Spokane Washington by way of North Dakota (Teddy Roosevelt National Park), Montana (Glacier National Park), Idaho (passing thru) and then Spokane before dropping down into Yellowstone and then back thru the Big Horns to Devils Tower and down into Rapid City, Badlands South Dakota before heading home. We took a similar trip in 2006 but only went as far as Yellowstone and did not venture up into Montana, Idaho or Washington. We've visited 35 states pulling thus far and next year we'll add 4 more for our girls...it is pretty neat that they are 11 and 13 and have already been in that many states!...plus during spring break we're hitting Hawaii...so next year they will hit 40 states they have been in!!!
But I've strayed somewhat from my goal of writing up my impressions of the SCT X3 while towing my 9000# TT behind my V10 Ex...
Basically I haven't found a negative thus far. Could I do everything I normally do without the X3?...sure...does it seem to make the engine response better while towing?...to me it does because of how Mike manages the shifts and delays them to keep the V10 in her 'sweet-spot'. It will be very interesting next summer when we tackle the Rockies again...but that report will have to wait about 11 months...sorry.
So far...I'm very happy with my decision to go with the SCT X3 from Mike at 5-Star...and FWIW...I do NOT work for or get any compensation from Mike to say anything nice about him or his products...I'm just a satisified customer that is sharing GOOD NEWS about a company for a change!
One last thing...I bought the X3 tuner but SCT also makes a tuner called "LiveWire"...this tuner stays connected to your OBDII port and displays critical vehicle parameters live...if I didn't already have an OBDII Aeroforce gauge to monitor my parameters (trans temp, etc)...I would have really considered the LiveWire...
I hope this helps explain my impressions of towing our 9000# TT with the addition of the SCT X3 with the towing tune loaded.
Please let me know if you have any question.
Sorry it took so long for me to write this up.
Joe.
First I must say that what really sold me on buying a tuner was Mike himself. His focus on customer satisfaction and his willingness to answer customer questions/emails/phone calls 7 days a week is something you don't find in companies today. His knowledge of the V10 was also a major plus to me but he also knows the PSD very well too! I spent many hours on the phone with Mike asking him many questions and that is what really sold me...his willingness to spend time with people and not just blow people off. Plus he developed tunes while actually towing with his V10's...so I was sold and have been very happy. I've emailed him a few times since buying the tuner and his response time is just as quick...so that even says more. I didn't mean this to turn into an advertisement for Mike and 5-Star but you really do get him as part of this package and you will be completely satisfied with the overall experience he provides!
Next the tuner itself.
The X3 tuner holds 3 tunes and Mike can develop any kind of tune you want. For me I only wanted 87 octane tunes and I settled on 'economy', 'performance' and 'towing'.
Loading tunes to the tuner is a snap but the first time can be a bit confusing...Mike provides an excellent tutorial for you but if you need his assistance he is just a phone call away.
I must say I have never even loaded the 'performance' tune into the truck. It is on the tuner but I've never had a desire to load it...just me I guess...maybe one day I'll give it a whirl just to see what it is like???
On the 'economy' tune...I noticed a very small gain in mpg's with this tune just like Mike said...he does NOT advertise this tune as a real noticable mpg gain...but you will notice a small increase depending on your commute and driving style.
Now onto the 'towing' tune which I what I really have not reported on as of yet.
Please remember that my Ex has 4.30 gears and Mike programmed that into my tune...so my RPMs below may be slightly different than what you may expect with 3.73's...
The first thing you will notice when you load the towing tune is that your trans will not shift even unloaded until you approach 2800-3000 RPMs...Mike is delaying the shift to get the V10 into the 'sweet-spot' and that 2800-3000 RPMs IS the sweet spot for the V10. The first time I loaded the tow tune at home and was driving to go and get my TT...the RPMs were climbing and climbing and it hadn't shifted into 2nd yet...I lifted my foot off the go pedal to force a shift but it still didn't shift...then I'm thinking what is going on for like a split second and then I realized...you dummy...you loaded the towing tune!...when it does shift gears it is a much firmer shift too...you can really feel the shift.
So...I go and hitch up and hit the road...I was able to test out the tow tune on about a 300 mile one way trip to southern Indiana which included some small grades but nothing to really speak of. I noticed that it really helps to hang the shifts like that and keep the V10 in that 'sweet-spot' while driving as you really have a much improved throttle response this way. Shifting too soon and dropping RPMs causes you to lose that 'sweet-spot' of the V10 and you notice significant 'lag' on the throttle...BUT with the SCT X3 and the towing tune loaded...the throttle response while rolling down the road at 17,000#'s combined is very good without forcing a downshift!
One thing I asked Mike to change for me personally was the speed with which he allows the trans to shift into OD...he had set it at 60mph but with it being so flat in northern Indiana and me traveling many rural country roads...it is sometimes hard to achieve 60mph on these country roads...I asked him to back that shift speed off to 55mph and he immediately sent me a new tune and whalla it is loaded and it now shifts at a point that is 'tuned' for my personal likes.
Mike has also made some improvements to the fuel enrichment algorithm within the tune. Ford released their version and required you to be at 50% throttle for over 60 seconds before enriching the fuel/air ratio...after 60 seconds Ford changes the nominal 14:1 ratio to 12:1...true this will burn more fuel BUT it gives you MORE POWER...what Mike does is switch to that mode quicker while in the towing tune mode...he figures that if you are over 50% throttle...you are likely climbing a grade so you want some more power...and I agree.
Overall the things Mike does in his tune make perfect sense to me and I really like the feel in the seat of the pants while towing!
I'm really going to give his tunes a test next summer when we embark on an ~4500 mile trek from Indiana out to Spokane Washington by way of North Dakota (Teddy Roosevelt National Park), Montana (Glacier National Park), Idaho (passing thru) and then Spokane before dropping down into Yellowstone and then back thru the Big Horns to Devils Tower and down into Rapid City, Badlands South Dakota before heading home. We took a similar trip in 2006 but only went as far as Yellowstone and did not venture up into Montana, Idaho or Washington. We've visited 35 states pulling thus far and next year we'll add 4 more for our girls...it is pretty neat that they are 11 and 13 and have already been in that many states!...plus during spring break we're hitting Hawaii...so next year they will hit 40 states they have been in!!!
But I've strayed somewhat from my goal of writing up my impressions of the SCT X3 while towing my 9000# TT behind my V10 Ex...
Basically I haven't found a negative thus far. Could I do everything I normally do without the X3?...sure...does it seem to make the engine response better while towing?...to me it does because of how Mike manages the shifts and delays them to keep the V10 in her 'sweet-spot'. It will be very interesting next summer when we tackle the Rockies again...but that report will have to wait about 11 months...sorry.
So far...I'm very happy with my decision to go with the SCT X3 from Mike at 5-Star...and FWIW...I do NOT work for or get any compensation from Mike to say anything nice about him or his products...I'm just a satisified customer that is sharing GOOD NEWS about a company for a change!
One last thing...I bought the X3 tuner but SCT also makes a tuner called "LiveWire"...this tuner stays connected to your OBDII port and displays critical vehicle parameters live...if I didn't already have an OBDII Aeroforce gauge to monitor my parameters (trans temp, etc)...I would have really considered the LiveWire...
I hope this helps explain my impressions of towing our 9000# TT with the addition of the SCT X3 with the towing tune loaded.
Please let me know if you have any question.
Sorry it took so long for me to write this up.
Joe.
#2
08-08-2010, 07:59 PM
Awesome report Joe. Couple of questions. Does the Ex hold OD any better. My stock Ex with 4.30 gears seems to drop out of OD a little to quickly. Secondly have you noticed any improvement in fuel economy towing? Any improvement would be a plus since I'm at 7-7.5 towing with my Ex and TT. Thanks again for the report, was going to give some rep points but I guess I have to spread em around first. Thanks, John 
#3
08-09-2010, 05:51 AM
John,
Sorry it has taken me a little bit to respond.
Are you towing with cruise control? If you are...drop it. I very rarely use cruise control because of just the reason you mention.
Now...I will say that it does take some practice on the throttle pressure to NOT get the thing to downshift on hills. There is a lag in response time no matter what you do. What I mean by that is you can press down on the pedal slightly but there will NOT be an immediate increase in mph's unless you downshift. Slight pressure on the go pedal WILL increase the mph's even on hills and even in OD but it is a slow and gradual increase in mph's...it took me some experimenting to realize that...there isn't really any instant gratification when rolling down the road at 17,000#'s UNLESS you are willing to wind up the V10...if you are just tooling down the highway in OD...small go pedal changes WILL make for mph increase...but you need to be patient...I've learned that small amounts of pressure on the throttle is all you can get away with when climbing 'moderate' hills in OD otherwise you are going to be in 3rd gear. As far as Mike's tune helping to hold OD longer...I'm not 100% sure of that yet to be able to make any claim...the best I can say is I 'think' it did. I was able to pull a few good hills along the Indiana/Kentucky border in OD...but the way I modulate the throttle...I'm not sure if it would have done the same thing with the stock tune. I can say I know for sure it isn't any worse.
When I head back out west next year...I'm sure I won't be in OD much due to the altitudes...so I'm not sure if I will be able to test this out there or not...but you never know. Everytime I head out there I notice that when you are at altitude...it is just easier to lock OD off because you constantly play 'catch up' otherwise with losing the power band. But we'll see with the tune how she does...at least I've got a few points of reference before the tuner!
As far as the economy tune yielding slightly better mpgs while towing...it is hard to say actually...if you are in constant hills...I would have to say no due to the fuel enrichment change...BUT you should definitely notice an improvement in pulling those hills. I've noticed a recent trend in mpgs going down more and I suspect it is mostly due to the reformulations the oil companies are doing with their additives and mostly ethanol blends (this is purely a hunch and speculation on my part here)...I can say though that the V10 really does not like ethanol in my personal experience...but as far as towing mpg improvement with the tuner...I'm going to have to say no from what I've seen. I can pretty much set my fuel stops based on 7.5 to 8 mpgs while towing and pretty much no matter if I tow at 58mph or 65mph...she burns at that fuel rate...now throw in a really stiff head wind and it will be knocked down to 7 and if you get a really stiff tail wind...I may get 8.2 or so. Local country roads where I'm constantly going 45-50mph...I get right at 9-10...so speed DOES matter but the fuel blends IMO are what are killing us too!
Hope this helps and thanks for trying to hit me with some reps...keep spreading the love around the forum...as they say...what goes around comes around...and in this case that is a good thing!
Let me know if you have any more questions!
Joe.
Sorry it has taken me a little bit to respond.
Are you towing with cruise control? If you are...drop it. I very rarely use cruise control because of just the reason you mention.
Now...I will say that it does take some practice on the throttle pressure to NOT get the thing to downshift on hills. There is a lag in response time no matter what you do. What I mean by that is you can press down on the pedal slightly but there will NOT be an immediate increase in mph's unless you downshift. Slight pressure on the go pedal WILL increase the mph's even on hills and even in OD but it is a slow and gradual increase in mph's...it took me some experimenting to realize that...there isn't really any instant gratification when rolling down the road at 17,000#'s UNLESS you are willing to wind up the V10...if you are just tooling down the highway in OD...small go pedal changes WILL make for mph increase...but you need to be patient...I've learned that small amounts of pressure on the throttle is all you can get away with when climbing 'moderate' hills in OD otherwise you are going to be in 3rd gear. As far as Mike's tune helping to hold OD longer...I'm not 100% sure of that yet to be able to make any claim...the best I can say is I 'think' it did. I was able to pull a few good hills along the Indiana/Kentucky border in OD...but the way I modulate the throttle...I'm not sure if it would have done the same thing with the stock tune. I can say I know for sure it isn't any worse.
When I head back out west next year...I'm sure I won't be in OD much due to the altitudes...so I'm not sure if I will be able to test this out there or not...but you never know. Everytime I head out there I notice that when you are at altitude...it is just easier to lock OD off because you constantly play 'catch up' otherwise with losing the power band. But we'll see with the tune how she does...at least I've got a few points of reference before the tuner!
As far as the economy tune yielding slightly better mpgs while towing...it is hard to say actually...if you are in constant hills...I would have to say no due to the fuel enrichment change...BUT you should definitely notice an improvement in pulling those hills. I've noticed a recent trend in mpgs going down more and I suspect it is mostly due to the reformulations the oil companies are doing with their additives and mostly ethanol blends (this is purely a hunch and speculation on my part here)...I can say though that the V10 really does not like ethanol in my personal experience...but as far as towing mpg improvement with the tuner...I'm going to have to say no from what I've seen. I can pretty much set my fuel stops based on 7.5 to 8 mpgs while towing and pretty much no matter if I tow at 58mph or 65mph...she burns at that fuel rate...now throw in a really stiff head wind and it will be knocked down to 7 and if you get a really stiff tail wind...I may get 8.2 or so. Local country roads where I'm constantly going 45-50mph...I get right at 9-10...so speed DOES matter but the fuel blends IMO are what are killing us too!
Hope this helps and thanks for trying to hit me with some reps...keep spreading the love around the forum...as they say...what goes around comes around...and in this case that is a good thing!
Let me know if you have any more questions!
Joe.
#4
08-14-2010, 06:52 PM
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Joe,
Good writeup. Very similar to my experience/impressions, and I've been running mine since the first of the year (although the EX is in hibernation for the summer).
To John's question about fuel mileage improvements with towing. I saw definite improvements in my mileage while towing, but keep in mind my towing conditions are significantly different from most of yours.
Here's my performance thread (hasn't been updated because I didn't make any more trips since March, and very little driving since then).
Similar props to Mike about customer service. He emailed me in June (at least 6 months after I bought the tuner) to see if I needed anything. Unfortunately I've been so busy at work that I haven't had time to respond. Hope he sees this post and knows that I'm happy!
Good writeup. Very similar to my experience/impressions, and I've been running mine since the first of the year (although the EX is in hibernation for the summer).
To John's question about fuel mileage improvements with towing. I saw definite improvements in my mileage while towing, but keep in mind my towing conditions are significantly different from most of yours.
Here's my performance thread (hasn't been updated because I didn't make any more trips since March, and very little driving since then).
Similar props to Mike about customer service. He emailed me in June (at least 6 months after I bought the tuner) to see if I needed anything. Unfortunately I've been so busy at work that I haven't had time to respond. Hope he sees this post and knows that I'm happy!
#5
08-14-2010, 08:28 PM
Joe,
Thanks for the very thought out write up, very informative. I plan on adding a tuner to my Ex, and it is good to hear good reviews, which seldom come these days. I too tow a TT at 11,000# GVW so your report on towing hit write to the heart. Hopefully I will get this soon and maybe have something to add. We shall see.
Thanks for the very thought out write up, very informative. I plan on adding a tuner to my Ex, and it is good to hear good reviews, which seldom come these days. I too tow a TT at 11,000# GVW so your report on towing hit write to the heart. Hopefully I will get this soon and maybe have something to add. We shall see.
#7
08-14-2010, 10:02 PM
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#9
08-15-2010, 09:18 AM
baji26,
Yes...I own a V10 Ex...Mike at 5 Star owns several V10 trucks...so his tunes are V10 friendly!
Thanks Tony for posting the link to the website.
BTW...Mike at 5 Star is a site sponsor here...so you can also look him up here.
Jeff,
I'll try and load the performance tune BEFORE we camp in late October...how's that!
Thanks for the reps guys...
Joe.
Yes...I own a V10 Ex...Mike at 5 Star owns several V10 trucks...so his tunes are V10 friendly!
Thanks Tony for posting the link to the website.
BTW...Mike at 5 Star is a site sponsor here...so you can also look him up here.
Jeff,
I'll try and load the performance tune BEFORE we camp in late October...how's that!
Thanks for the reps guys...
Joe.
#10
08-15-2010, 11:37 AM
Postmaster
#11
08-15-2010, 11:49 AM
Johnny,
So long for this initial report/write up?...well Life I guess!
I have been traveling like a mad man this year for work...I've already logged just under 175,000 flying miles since January 1st!...I am currenlty in South Korea as I type...it is almost 2am Monday here...but my body thinks it is 1pm Sunday!!! Talk about messed up sleep habits!
How have you been my friend?
Joe.
So long for this initial report/write up?...well Life I guess!
I have been traveling like a mad man this year for work...I've already logged just under 175,000 flying miles since January 1st!...I am currenlty in South Korea as I type...it is almost 2am Monday here...but my body thinks it is 1pm Sunday!!! Talk about messed up sleep habits!
How have you been my friend?
Joe.
#12
08-15-2010, 11:55 AM
Postmaster
Johnny,
So long for this initial report/write up?...well Life I guess!
I have been traveling like a mad man this year for work...I've already logged just under 175,000 flying miles since January 1st!...I am currenlty in South Korea as I type...it is almost 2am Monday here...but my body thinks it is 1pm Sunday!!! Talk about messed up sleep habits!
How have you been my friend?
Joe.
So long for this initial report/write up?...well Life I guess!
I have been traveling like a mad man this year for work...I've already logged just under 175,000 flying miles since January 1st!...I am currenlty in South Korea as I type...it is almost 2am Monday here...but my body thinks it is 1pm Sunday!!! Talk about messed up sleep habits!
How have you been my friend?
Joe.
In S. Korea..wow you have been busy. I've been good,just trying to get all the little things done around here.
JL
#13
08-15-2010, 05:55 PM
Johnny,
Ah...you are right...I was a little slow on getting the tuner (and understanding! LOL)
The 5-Star tunes really seem to wake up an already great motor...it just gives it some strategy in the tranny shift point area...which really helps when towing.
As I indicated to Jeff above...I will give the performance tune a try too.
I've actually had the tuner for about 10 months now and I've been more occupied than I would have thought and really slow on getting things done...hopefully that will change when I get back from Hawaii in early October...one can hope...RIGHT!
Joe.
Ah...you are right...I was a little slow on getting the tuner (and understanding! LOL)
The 5-Star tunes really seem to wake up an already great motor...it just gives it some strategy in the tranny shift point area...which really helps when towing.
As I indicated to Jeff above...I will give the performance tune a try too.
I've actually had the tuner for about 10 months now and I've been more occupied than I would have thought and really slow on getting things done...hopefully that will change when I get back from Hawaii in early October...one can hope...RIGHT!
Joe.
#15
08-15-2010, 08:59 PM
BAJI,
Mike runs specials from time to time...so pricing could be volatile...you are probably looking in the $300 range give or take a little if I remember right...seriously...I'm not blowing you crud about how great Mike is...the best way for you to get accurate information is to give Mike a call or send him an email...he will respond quickly and accurately.
Please don't take this the wrong way...but it isn't that I don't want to answer your questions directly...it is just that Mike can do it so much better and in the end...it really only matters what price he gives you!
Good luck,
JOe.
Mike runs specials from time to time...so pricing could be volatile...you are probably looking in the $300 range give or take a little if I remember right...seriously...I'm not blowing you crud about how great Mike is...the best way for you to get accurate information is to give Mike a call or send him an email...he will respond quickly and accurately.
Please don't take this the wrong way...but it isn't that I don't want to answer your questions directly...it is just that Mike can do it so much better and in the end...it really only matters what price he gives you!
Good luck,
JOe.