1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel  
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: DP Tuner

This weekend's project, turbo mods off to a good start

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #46  
Old 06-18-2010, 11:30 AM
60RatRod's Avatar
60RatRod
60RatRod is offline
Posting Guru
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Nkelly
Dan that chirping off ya turbo between gear change and when you back off,i was told is bad for ya turbo ?????
Might be right there. Not sure that there is a fix for that, probablly just nature of the beast. It is only a STOCK Garrett not a BB.
Thanks
Dan
 
  #47  
Old 06-18-2010, 12:00 PM
Duzitall's Avatar
Duzitall
Duzitall is offline
Senior User
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Spring Valley, CA
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
That chirping sound is metal to metal contact. The shaft (quill) is very small and it flexes enough to let the turbine and compressor wheels contact the housing sides when under stress. Also destroys the center section when it flexes too often.

I know this info first hand It will destroy expensive parts and eventually your turbo will need to be rebuilt as it WILL stop working if you push it too long. Wicked Wheel or a ported shroud will stop the chirp and the damage

I rebuilt mine after I ruined lots of parts. Added the WW and it's been fine for years now.
 
  #48  
Old 06-18-2010, 12:16 PM
60RatRod's Avatar
60RatRod
60RatRod is offline
Posting Guru
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
So let me ask you this Duztail, I just installed a WW as this thread shows, when the turbo was off and housing was off I checked both the old and new wheel for rubing and there was none. Additionally there where no signs of rubbing on the backplate as you may or may not be able tell in the pics. So is this just a result of the High speed parts causing some flex to the shaft under a load? The videos are filmed under a load a romping the skinny stick, not my normal driving conditions. I initially just wanted to get rid of the turbo surge I was expierencing when towing up large grades. I was also set to an 80 hp tune with a line pressure increase on the trans during the videos. Any input as to what your thoughts are here would be appreciated. I am always learning everday.
 
  #49  
Old 06-18-2010, 12:53 PM
Duzitall's Avatar
Duzitall
Duzitall is offline
Senior User
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Spring Valley, CA
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 60RatRod
So let me ask you this Duztail, I just installed a WW as this thread shows, when the turbo was off and housing was off I checked both the old and new wheel for rubing and there was none. Additionally there where no signs of rubbing on the backplate as you may or may not be able tell in the pics. So is this just a result of the High speed parts causing some flex to the shaft under a load? The videos are filmed under a load a romping the skinny stick, not my normal driving conditions. I initially just wanted to get rid of the turbo surge I was expierencing when towing up large grades. I was also set to an 80 hp tune with a line pressure increase on the trans during the videos. Any input as to what your thoughts are here would be appreciated. I am always learning everday.
Interesting. You had the squealing/chirping sound before you installed the WW and you found no evidence of metal to metal contact? All I know is mine was trashed like I said after a couple years of shift-chirp-chirp-chirp. The turbo shop I bought my parts at confirmed my theory of what happened. They said they sell lots of the same parts to guys with the same story as mine. Shaft with turbine attached, backing plates, center section and old style compressor wheels.

After the WW install no more complaints from my turbo upon shifting. No squeal, no surge, no chirp. Perhaps my center section went bad first and that caused the contact at the backing plates.
 
  #50  
Old 06-18-2010, 12:57 PM
60RatRod's Avatar
60RatRod
60RatRod is offline
Posting Guru
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Yes I took my time, as you can tell 5 days, and double and triple checked everything. I did'nt know there was such a thing as a ported shroud for these turbos. Im always learning something here everyday.
 
  #51  
Old 06-19-2010, 06:39 AM
Nkelly's Avatar
Nkelly
Nkelly is offline
Farkall User

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Slade Point, Australia
Posts: 800
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 60RatRod
Im always learning something here everyday.
LOL, yes im glad after buying my Ftruck,i found this sight,the stuff ive found out,the mods,and all the other info is fantastic...
 
  #52  
Old 06-19-2010, 09:51 AM
Izzy351's Avatar
Izzy351
Izzy351 is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dallas-Ft. Worth
Posts: 14,541
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
The noise in the video is NOT metal-to-metal contact. It is the boost bleeding back through the intake side of the turbo. No, it's not great for it, but there is really no choice. However, it's not as bad as true turbo surge which happens at a certain RPM/engine load, NOT between gears. Let's not get that confused. Also, I've seen the term "turbo flutter", which some seem to link to surge, others refer to the sound the exhaust makes when you get rid of the restrictive muffler and can really hear that turbo sound.

I have none of that now with my combo, but I do get a little burst of noise (a "whoosh", not the "flutter") when I let off the pedal suddenly after a hard acceleration, but I try to avoid doing it.

EDIT: Here's a vid of me making an acceleration run (not WOT, but a pretty hard one):
http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/o...t=SNC00253.flv
 
  #53  
Old 06-19-2010, 10:43 AM
Duzitall's Avatar
Duzitall
Duzitall is offline
Senior User
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Spring Valley, CA
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Izzy351
The noise in the video is NOT metal-to-metal contact. It is the boost bleeding back through the intake side of the turbo. No, it's not great for it, but there is really no choice. However, it's not as bad as true turbo surge which happens at a certain RPM/engine load, NOT between gears. Let's not get that confused. Also, I've seen the term "turbo flutter", which some seem to link to surge, others refer to the sound the exhaust makes when you get rid of the restrictive muffler and can really hear that turbo sound.

I have none of that now with my combo, but I do get a little burst of noise (a "whoosh", not the "flutter") when I let off the pedal suddenly after a hard acceleration, but I try to avoid doing it.
My apologies. I was on a construction site when I tried to listen to Ratrods videos. I certainly would not describe that sound as a chirp. The whoosh of course is nothing unusual and apparently not harmful. Like I said before my turbo's death sound was a repeated chirp or squeal upon up-shift and was most definitely metal to metal. Sorry to sound a false alarm. I just remember the sad day my turbo stopped spinning because I didn't know any better.
 
  #54  
Old 06-19-2010, 03:13 PM
Nkelly's Avatar
Nkelly
Nkelly is offline
Farkall User

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Slade Point, Australia
Posts: 800
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
When i run bigg boost,my turbo will sound like in dans video and only does in the last change up into 3rd (OD switched off) climbing a hill (pedal to the metal) if i take the bigg boost tube off the WG, when she drops into 3rd it makes a whoosh noise no chirping..
 
  #55  
Old 06-19-2010, 03:16 PM
Nkelly's Avatar
Nkelly
Nkelly is offline
Farkall User

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Slade Point, Australia
Posts: 800
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 60RatRod
Well today I only got a couple of things done, guess I will have to wait until tomorrow to install the turbo back into the truck. I had ran into some problems and called Bob, "GUZZLE" and he was able to walk me trough them. Thanks so much Bob, sorry to bother you on a Sunday but I was stumped.

Here's a look at the stock wheel, everything appears fine, little to no end play, inlet and outlet wheels look good. I don't know what do you guys think?

A comparison of the stock wheel and wicked wheel

Pulled off the Outlet in this PIC to get to the shaft and delete the outlets EBPV

Here is my gutted outlet

I started by grinding off the rivets that hold the butterfly trap

Then I just took a punch to knock out the rivets, the butterfly comes right out and then the shaft just slides out.

I used a socket to drive out the bushing the shaft rode on

Then I just cut a bolt to fit inside the bushing to weld in place

here's what it looks like welded in place

I reinstalled the welded bushing the same way it came out.

And this is it my deleted EBPV outlet all ready to bolt back on to the turbo

A pic of the Wicked Wheel installed and one of Bob's "GUZZLE"'s new Viton compressor housing O ring. I lubed it with White Lithium Lube ( I don't do Vasoline, LOL)

The turbo all ready to go back into the truck, you can see the shortened wastegate rod. I just need to torque the bolts down, I have no idea what the torque specs are, So if anyone can help me with that it would be greatly appreciated.
This butterfly trap,is this what the WG arm operates ?????
 
  #56  
Old 06-19-2010, 04:05 PM
60RatRod's Avatar
60RatRod
60RatRod is offline
Posting Guru
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
In Pic Its the 10th pic you can see the small about 1" round deal-m-bobber is the wastegate butterfly. I will try to find a better pic for you.
 

Last edited by 60RatRod; 06-19-2010 at 04:16 PM. Reason: add pic
  #57  
Old 06-19-2010, 11:26 PM
SilverBullet131313's Avatar
SilverBullet131313
SilverBullet131313 is offline
Senior User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
60Ratrod....that chirping you are getting is definitely not normal. It definitely is compressor surge and bad if you ask me. Under load or when letting off throttle, surge is surge and will wear your turbo and kill it at some point. May last years, may last a week but is harmful and not efficient at all. Basically when you are letting off the throttle the air/boost you built is backtracking and pushing back on the wheel. All pressure then is on the shaft which will eventually get alot of play in it and hit sides of turbo housing and the whole time just be very inefficient. Basically choking it, and more boost you run , the woese it will be. Did you have any front to back play on the wheel??

And You could get a ported cover which has bleed rings in it which give the back tracked air somewhere to go. But i just find it odd that the wicked wheel didnt help it at all. Your before and after vids is totally the same. So i would check things over before you drop coin on a ported cover to see if you can find any issues. Better safe then sorry. I just know what that is and what it does and can tell you my truck has NEVER sounded like that and i have same if not a few more mods then you. Plus been racing turbo cars for 15 years now I know compressor surge.
 
  #58  
Old 06-20-2010, 06:12 AM
Nkelly's Avatar
Nkelly
Nkelly is offline
Farkall User

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Slade Point, Australia
Posts: 800
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Interesting,i wonder what others have to say
 
  #59  
Old 06-20-2010, 11:20 AM
60RatRod's Avatar
60RatRod
60RatRod is offline
Posting Guru
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by SilverBullet131313
60Ratrod....that chirping you are getting is definitely not normal. It definitely is compressor surge and bad if you ask me. Under load or when letting off throttle, surge is surge and will wear your turbo and kill it at some point. May last years, may last a week but is harmful and not efficient at all. Basically when you are letting off the throttle the air/boost you built is backtracking and pushing back on the wheel. All pressure then is on the shaft which will eventually get alot of play in it and hit sides of turbo housing and the whole time just be very inefficient. Basically choking it, and more boost you run , the woese it will be. Did you have any front to back play on the wheel??

And You could get a ported cover which has bleed rings in it which give the back tracked air somewhere to go. But i just find it odd that the wicked wheel didnt help it at all. Your before and after vids is totally the same. So i would check things over before you drop coin on a ported cover to see if you can find any issues. Better safe then sorry. I just know what that is and what it does and can tell you my truck has NEVER sounded like that and i have same if not a few more mods then you. Plus been racing turbo cars for 15 years now I know compressor surge.
Thanks for uor input, I greatly appreciate all input good, bad or indifferent. I am running a Stock Garrett and not a GTP 38R BB. With that said could it just be nature of the beast? I have a run with my TT planned and I will post the mountain pass run, where the turbo has given me the problems in the past. Only other thing I see is i need a new vacuum fitting for the red tube.
 
  #60  
Old 06-20-2010, 03:24 PM
Izzy351's Avatar
Izzy351
Izzy351 is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dallas-Ft. Worth
Posts: 14,541
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Nkelly
This butterfly trap,is this what the WG arm operates ?????
No -- that's the EBPV operated by an arm coming out of the pedestal. The wastegate is the little round port in the pic above.
 


Quick Reply: This weekend's project, turbo mods off to a good start



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:53 PM.