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Gooch's Radiator/Engine Backflush Procedure and Coolant Information

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Gooch's Radiator/Engine Backflush Procedure and Coolant Information

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  #16  
Old 05-28-2010, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by PaysonPSD View Post
I've seen that pic before. Just for conversation sake unless analyzed you can't be sure if it is sand or silicate drop-out or both.
I absolutely agree!

Most use a bypass filters to get the SCA silicate removed.
Yeah, whether or not it's casting flash or SCA drop out, I've always thought a coolant filter was a nice idea.

Has Gooch ever addressed this issue.
I remember him mentioning it once in a post as a good idea, but nothing more in-depth.

He sure didn't mince words when discussing the use of tap water, did he.
I dunno. You don't think he was beating around the bush a little?

Stewart
 
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Old 05-28-2010, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Stewart_H View Post

I dunno. You don't think he was beating around the bush a little?

Stewart
Beating around the bush, NO. He took a chain saw to the bush.

What do you think he would say about well water? At least it's not treated with clorine and/or flouride.
 
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Old 05-28-2010, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by PaysonPSD View Post
Most use a bypass filters to get the SCA silicate removed. Has Gooch ever addressed this issue.
Originally Posted by Stewart_H View Post
I remember him mentioning it once in a post as a good idea, but nothing more in-depth.
I found it. I'll keep looking to see if he talks about it more, but here's one of his posts regarding water pump failures.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Guys, the advantage to the ELC where our water pump is concerned, is the fact it is silicate-free (and phosphate, borate, amine, and nitrate-free too).

Conventional ("green") coolants, G-05 coolants (like Ford's Gold), and SCA additive, all have those things. Of particular concern is the silicate. Over time, silicates become insoluble and drop out of the coolant as microscopic abrasives. Silicate is a relative of silica, or sand. With that in mind, understand that the water pump on the 7.3L is not like other diesel water pumps. Instead it has a seal that is constantly exposed to the coolant. The abrasive silicates eventually find their way between the water pump's seal and shaft, causing failure. Some of the other components also form abrasives and scale. For example phosphate (found in most SCA's) actually forms an abrasive scale when mixed with H2O. Again, HD ELC's are free of silicates and other non-desirable abrasives.

Lots of things can cause your water pump to fail...belt tension, poor craftsmanship, a contaminated cooling system, etc., but your water pump probably would've lasted longer had you immediately dumped the factory coolant when it was new, and used an ELC from the start. Installing a coolant filter isn't a bad idea either.

Other advantages to the HD ELC are present in the form of better cavitation and corrosion protection, particularly as time wears on, when other lesser coolants like the G-05 Gold and conventional "green" coolants must be flushed. Better heat transfer, less maintenance, longer life, and proven heavy duty use that meet the most strict standards in the industry are others.

I've got 130K miles on my original pump...using a HD ELC from the start."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's another post where he mentions using a coolant filter is a good idea, but not needed with an ELC coolant.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"S....jake, you don't need a coolant filter with HD ELC. They are silicate-free. Just make sure you do a complete flush of the system.

Of course a coolant filter is always a good idea...in any cooling system."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stewart
 
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Old 05-28-2010, 03:13 AM
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Thanks Stewart. That's good stuff. Also answers in part what Izzy had in the jug. If you can see it, it just might be sand and not SCA drop-out if like Gooch says "Over time, silicates become insoluble and drop out of the coolant as microscopic abrasives". But even microsopic particles can be seen with the naked eye if in abundance. If you pile up enough microsopic particles you will be able to see them.

I can barely keep my eyes open. I'm headed for bed. I'll check this thread in the morning.

Good Night Stewart.
 
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Old 05-28-2010, 04:03 AM
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There's more stuff out there by Gooch, but mainly it's pointed, specific information (like whether or not the Ford Gold is considered an ELC...it's not) to rebut someone else's misinformation.

Originally Posted by PaysonPSD View Post
I can barely keep my eyes open. I'm headed for bed. I'll check this thread in the morning.

Good Night Stewart.

Me too. Off to bed.

Stewart
 
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:56 PM
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I wanted to highlight this tidbit of information regarding ELC's and their compatability with SCA charged coolants:

For the record, adding SCA to a HD ELC will not produce anything close to "mud" or "goop". That is more misinformation. HD ELC's and SCA's are completely compatible, although not recommended only because you will lose the long-life properties of the HD ELC. There is no need to add SCA to HD ELC's. "Extenders" are available to add to HD ELC's if you want to further extend their life from the 300K, 500K, or 750K mile mark, depending on the brand.
I don't think anyone here has ever been mistaken about this, but I have read posts on other forums where someone has told a user who had inadvertently mixed an ELC with a SCA charged coolant, that they needed to backflush their block immediately before the coolant became a goo or turned into a mud like substance.

Even on the bottle of my Chevron Delo ELC it says it's compatible with other coolants. The only drawback to mixing them is you lose the extended life aspect of the ELC, depending on how diluted the mixture is.

Stewart
 
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:02 PM
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So after all this info is Given,

What would be the best Coolant to use in a 2000 PSD that has the Green Coolant in it?
Most have switched to the Gold.

But the Big Question is, ELC or No ELC ...

That is the Question?

Best,
Russ
 
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by van_350sd View Post
So after all this info is Given,

What would be the best Coolant to use in a 2000 PSD that has the Green Coolant in it?
Most have switched to the Gold.

But the Big Question is, ELC or No ELC ...

That is the Question?

Best,
Russ
It depends on how long you want to go on the same coolant. The Gold is good for 100k. The ELC three times that or more. Comes down to personal choice and/or need.
 
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by van_350sd View Post
So after all this info is Given,

What would be the best Coolant to use in a 2000 PSD that has the Green Coolant in it?
Most have switched to the Gold.

But the Big Question is, ELC or No ELC ...

That is the Question?

Best,
Russ
ELC, hands down.

Ford's Gold (G-05) coolant is nothing like a Heavy Duty ELC coolant. Thus is will not meet the more strict specs of other Heavy Duty ELC coolants, or provide the higher level of protection. The Gold is simply a universal hybrid, one-size-fits-all coolant that Ford uses in its entire line up that, with the exception of the Powerstroke, are all gasoline engines. Ford simply uses the Gold in your diesel out of convenience, simplicity, cost, and uniformity throughout it's product line and dealerships. The Gold coolant contains conventional (green coolant) components like silicate, which eventually form microscopic abrasives that eat water pump seals. It provides a lower level of cavitation protection using traditional SCA's like Nitrite, it has a shorter life, it reduces heat transfer compared to HD ELC's, and it in fact does require testing and SCA maintenance if you are an enthusiast about protecting your engine. In fact Ford recommends you add SCA to the Gold in certain F-Series applications. Caterpillar and John Deere also recommend adding SCA if it is going to be used in their diesels. Ironically, Ford's Gold will not meet International's heavy duty diesel B-1 spec. HD ELC's will. The Gold will work, but it's not the best.
Stewart
 
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Stewart_H View Post
ELC, hands down.



Stewart
Thanks again for more info. You teach me something about everytime I read one of your posts. That why I stalk you.
 
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by PaysonPSD View Post
That why I stalk you.


According to Gooch, because the Gold (G-05) is actually a hybrid coolant, containg the same silicates the green coolant does, it has the same particles that can eat the water pump seals. It also doesn't transfer heat as well as a HD ELC does.

So to me, a HD ELC is much better than the Gold. Plus it lasts longer than the Gold, so in the long run, it's a better performer at a cheaper cost.

Stewart
 
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:38 PM
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The more you post about ELC the better I feel about doing the injector cup R&R. Thanks.
 
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:44 PM
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You're welcome!

I was supposed to create this thread a year ago! That's when I talked to Gooch about it, making sure there wasn't any updated info he wanted me to include. I just put it off, then eventually forgot about it.

I've posted most of the information found in this thread, throughout various other threads, over the last few years here in the 7.3 forum and the Excursion forum. But Gooch's flush procedure and ELC information has never been compiled into one big thread. Plus, I got tired of links to Gooch's procedure at TDS being posted here. FTE needs their own "Gooch's Radiator Flush Procedure" thread, so people here can post a link to an FTE thread, instead of being directed to TDS.

That's why I'm trying to put all of Gooch's relevant ELC information here, so this thread will be the definitive source for members who ask about ELC's or radiator flushes.

Stewart
 
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:54 PM
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I certainly believe it deserves "Sticky Status".
 
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by PaysonPSD View Post

What do you think he would say about well water? At least it's not treated with clorine and/or flouride.
My guess would be;
NO!
Well water would be worse than tap water way too many dissolved minerals in it.
 
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