The 2011 isn't a 100% clean redesign though is it? It seems to me that most of the manual transmission set up could be rolled over from the 2010. Meaning the clutch pedal, clutch master cylinder etc could just be rolled over to the 2011 unchaged. I'd almost bet that on a 2011 you could see on the firewall where the clutch master cylinder would be bolted up.
I must not be seeing the big picture because it doesn't seem like a manual should cost that much more since it's not a total redesign. I could see if they dropped it going from the 1997 F-250 to the 1999 super duty since it was a totally redesigned truck, well even in that case they were both 7.3.

 

why would you do all new engine and auto tranny, then drag in the old manual?

but even without the tranny part itself, there are tons of side effects, and all those add up. they are legally required to carry parts for 7 yrs after manufature year.. thats a burden too..

Sam

 

Well in my opinion a manual is a manual. If the 2010 already had a nice shifting and durable 6 speed that does not need improved upon then why not keep using it. Do they have new designed differentials as well? Probably not.

 

they did change Diffs on the 2011..
Sam

 

Well I stand corrected but the rest of the truck still looks like a 1999 with a facelift.

 

that is a common complaint from the market press..

Sam

 

I don't think the rear diffs are new. Still Ford Sterling 10.5 for SRW. All they did was add electronic locking.

 

I understand the manual guys wishing they had the choice. I wonder though if they are really listening to the facts. Do they think Ford is lying about the 1% take rate history on the manual trans? It seems pretty obvious to me that any business that has a 1% contributor to its sales market would have to question the viability of keeping that contributor. Add in the cost of design, inventory, govt compliance and parts supplies down the road and it makes it real easy to make that decision. They do not want to lose any of their customers but are instead planning that the success of the new power train will be so good that they can keep their customers.

Regards

 

Is this 1% listed anywhere? Like is there a link to an article or anything like that? Or where is this number coming from?
I know 1% is a very low percentage but with the number of trucks they will sell that would still be a bunch of manuals out there. And what does that mean? I guess nothing really other than even at 1% it still be easy for me to find a used one down the road. Again that really means nothing but I am curious as to where the 1% number comes from.
Like I said earlier I work for a fleet company that purchases a bunch of super duties. I asked about the number of manual trans and all I got was under 10%. So yes 1% is under 10% but that still seems off to me.
I also had another question that is a little off topic. Is the Ford V10 completely dead? As in no longer being manufactured whatsoever?

 

This has been mentioned on this site by Ford engineers. IIRC, even Chris Brewer , Chief Super Duty engineer, stated this number.

 

To clarify, Chris said 1-2 %. Ford had to consider this when spec'ing and designing the brand-new trans. It's clear they have a lot of confidence that it would be well received by the marketplace. All arguments aside, sales numbers are proving the decision was a correct one. Ford is absolutely crushing chev and dodge in the HD market space.

I must confess, I would have ordered a manual if the option was available. But having spent time in the seat without having to shift all the time, I love the new trans and am glad Ford forced the issue. I am so glad to be an auto trans convert.

 

I was looking at the Detroit Free Press this morning. Their automotive editor was talking about the surge in sales, particularly in pickups. Overall Ford is up 39%. No doubt the new Super Duty has contributed nicely to that increase.

 

I appoligize for derailing this thread in like 5 different ways already but did you see this? Looks like free power for you.
Ford Super Duty Power Boosts - Ford Will Give Extra Power to All 2011 Super Duty Pickup Trucks

 

and an interesting story.. we are changing our software products cause the employees our customers can hire are all Windows contaminated, and don't know how to do anything else. Ford is changing their police cars to front wheel drive cause police departments have a problem in that the new hire officers have only driven front wheel drive vehicles..

Fleet customers are having the same problem, fewer employees that know how to drive stick... and going to auto allows them to reduce training, repair, etc...

Sam

 

Okay, a couple points here from a former New Process Gear Engineer and die hard stick shift fan:

-On the personal side, I want a manual. I will not buy a new truck with an automatic. I'm not paying that much money for what I don't want.

-For years, US automakers have sold what they want to sell, not what the public wants or needs. If there was sense, you could buy a 4 door diesel mid size pickup in the US (i.e a Ranger or the legendary Hilux[Tacoma])

There are technical reasons not to offer a manual and most relate to cost.

-A manual trans for a truck is more expensive to manufacture than an auto. Manual has generally bigger shafts, bigger bearings, and bigger gears. An auto allows smaller gears and also allows more powder metal to be used.

-A manual trans requires a more expensive driveline. There are limited ways to prevent stupid with a manual. You can tune the porting in a hydraulic clutch and limit engine output with the ECM but you can't control driveline spike torque like you can with an auto. Thus you need a driveline that can withstand sidestepping the clutch in low gear wide open at max gcw. You also need to withstand higher shockloads caused by rough shifting. Thus in some pickups that came with manuals there is a different driveline with manual. Case in point, 94-02 Dodge 2500 has Dana 70 rear with auto and Dana 80 rear with manual.

-Proliferation of parts. You offer manual and auto instead of just auto and you have doubled the number of driveline combos. With the new SD Ford has really cut down their drivelines. While it is to be applauded from a profitability standpoint I don't think it serves the customer well.

Some interesting math related to proliferation:

2011 F250

6.2 auto 4x2
6.2 auto 4x4
6.7 auto 4x2
6.7 auto 4x4

That makes 4 engine trans combos.

For comparison 15 years earlier

1996 F250

4.9 auto 4x2
4.9 manual 4x2
plus I won't write out fully

(5.8, 7.5, or 7.3) x (manual or auto) x (4x4 or 4x2) = 12 + 2 above = 14

or a year ago

(5.4,6.8,6.4) x (manual or auto) x (4x4 or 4x2) = 12 combinations

Thus by taking the engine choice from 3 to 2 and trans choice from 2 to 1 they have reduced the engine/trans combos by 2/3. Good for production, not necesarily good for customer choice. Did reducing production cost reduce the sale price or the truck? No. Did using a diesel made in Mexico instead of one made in Illinois reduce the price of the truck? No. Did it help the stock price yes...modern business 101.

-And finally, I see transmission availability as a problem. I don't think the S6-650 will handle 800 lb-ft nor will the G56. I don't think (without some research) that there is a MD synchro manual trans out there that will handle 800 lb-ft (EDIT:there is an Eaton 6 speed rated for 860 lb-ft). That leaves a non-synchro box which I think is awesome but isn't really viable. Plus I don't think a twin countershaft fuller would fit under that cab very well.


For the comments about semis, the last industry numbers I saw indicated a 80% take rate on manuals in class 8. The rest are Autos or Automated. It's sad really but it reflects the difference between the skilled truck driver of old and today's 'steering wheel holders.' In MD trucks autos or automated are now the majority in class 5-7 at somewhere around 70%.

As much as I'd like to see a manual SD pickup I don't think it's ever coming back. I think they should at least offer some sort of manual in the chassis cab. Use that SAE bellhousing they are touting along with an Eaton Fuller MD 6 speed. And offer a 2 speed rear as well. Those were the kind of goodies you could get on a GM 4500 or 5500 (RIP GMT560).