First I should say hey. I've been lurking for a few weeks reading up and remotivating myself to work on my 53 F100 that's been sitting without any attention for too long.

I'm stripping down my frame to get it ready to take to a friends fabrication shop in a couple weeks for him to weld in the crossmember for a Mustang II IFS and an IRS install out back. Body is off, all the easy stuff is off (gas tank, brake lines, etc).

Now I'm at the fun part of removing the original straight-six crossmember and the original leaf brackets. Obviously all those are riveted to the frame, so that's where my question comes in.

What's the easiest way to get the rivets out to remove these unneeded brackets? I've read some people torch them out, but doesn't that risk overheating the frame rails and warping them? I tried grinding 4 down to smooth and even after whacking them with a punch and hammer they didn't pop out. I was hoping to get these things removed before taking it to my friends shop (less for him to do since he's doing it for the cost of materials only), but I guess if they need to be torched then I'm probably gonna have to wait.

Any tips for removal of these things?

Thanks in advance,
Ralph

 

I have read on here were several of the members cut a couple of slots in the head then knock them off with a chisle. Then use a punch to knock out the rest of the rivet. Sounded like they used a cutoff blade in a angle grinder. Someone will come along that has done it and give ya the info. Bump back to the top.......
Oh BTW WELCOME to FTE!

 

I just removed a bunch on my truck. I didn't use a torch but it probably would have been a lot easier if I did. I used an angle grinder to cut a plus sign into the top, going all the way to the frame (but not cutting the frame) and then using a cold chisel to remove the head.

I made a tool for knocking them out, it's basicly a piece of steel thats end was rounded to fit in the hole. (probably want to to heat treat this if you have a lot to do. Get it up to about 1450, which is glowing a dull cherry red, and quench it. I didn't temper mine just cause I didn't see the point with the steel I was using, but if you want to, just heat it up a couple hundred degrees and quench again, not like you'd want to use a high carbon steel for this.) The "punch" side needs to be a little smaller than the hole, just a little. And you may have to ground the edges again after a while cause it will mushroom. Also, don't hold it with your hands, get a pair of vice grips or something, otherwise you're almost guaranteed smashing your hand.

here is kinda a picture of it, I was using it to check the spacing of my bed...




Now, I had 8 of them holding some suspension stoppers and they wouldn't come out for the life of me. I spent like 2 hours on just those 8. I had made both sides of the rivets completely flush with the frame/bracket. In the end I ended up drilling them a little bit, I didn't drill the whole thing out, just most of what was in the bracket... and then I worked worked the bracket back and forth with a hammer.

You can kinda see how they where left after I removed the bracket:



They also took more of a beating than the should have to get to go through the other side o


Once that was off. I'm guessing over time they had simply swelled a little some how... magic maybe. I dunno. As far as a torch goes, you're mainly blowing them out so the heat isn't going to go too far, if it's a concern you can do one on each side at a time or stop when the area around it becomes too hot to touch, which is about a hundred degrees or so. Steel doesn't start to change on a molecular level till you start to get color, which starts around 250, and even then the changes are nothing to worry about it. Even if you got the whole thing glowing as long as you didn't quench it and just let it anneal (cool off on its own) it would be fine... ok if you had it glowing you'd risk distortion from having weight on it, or just it's own weight and gravity, but if you managed to get the whole thing that hot you're doing it wrong, lol.

I'm not sure what Ford did as far as the metallurgy goes, I don't know if any of this stuff was ever treated, I don't think they would as it makes sense to me you'd want it tougher over harder, which would make dealing with it simple; just don't try to cool it off with water or something, let it anneal.

But all of pretty much everything I mentioned with the heat shouldn't even come into play with what you're doing. Sorry I'm a blacksmith and I tend to rant, lol. The torch should remain rather localized with the heat, granite once you've done several it's going to start warming things up. And I should note that I have an F-600, not an F-100, my frame is a lot more heavy duty, so when I'm imagining doing this, I'm thinking off of that amount of steel, I haven't worked with an F-100 before and I'm not sure how much is there to be honest, but I think you'd be ok.


And whatever you do, wear safety glasses and a face shield and good gloves. You'd be amazed at how far one of those little things, especially the head when you chisel it off, can fly, and at you.

 

So here is what happened (I think). When the rivets where put in at the factory (hot?) not only where the heads mushroomed over but the rivet swelled under pressure to fill the hole, tight, very tight. I think this is why WW II Rosie the riveter war ships didn’t sink from leaking around the rivet? After getting the head of the rivet off by one of the 20 possible ways, now what? It takes a big beating, I mean big, they might come out. (or mushroom over) I did my spring hangers, front and rear, last month and I found the fastest / best was to heat with oxy acetylene around the rivet in the frame and / or bracket.

I doubt that you will hurt the frame (hope so anyway). A buddy suggested an air chisel with a punch bit but I hate the noise even with hearing protection.

 

Just use your angle grinder to grind off as much of the head as possible. Next drill a small hole using a 1/8" bit into the rivet about 1/4" deep to relieve some of the pressure from the frame squeezing the rivet. Knock the rivet out with a punch. Still stuck? Re-drill using a 1/4" bit and punch again.

Use a BIG hammer, because that whimpy 12 oz claw hammer won't do the trick. I have a 48oz maul hammer that made short work of driving the rivets out.

And wear heavy leather gloves to absorb some of the shock while holding the punch.

Jeff

P.S. The gloves will also lessen the pain when you miss.

 

I had the same problem when I started... (you could do a search for rivet and my username) BUT the absolute best advice I got was from Bobby... had me rolling on the floor... I have posted below for you enjoyment.

bobbytnm

OK, OK, while all the above mentioned methods work ok they are all lacking the basics preplanning preperatory work that MUST be completed before any frame and rivet work can ber started.

First things first, you must gather up some basic materials, here's a short list;

1. Several pounds of dirt (better if a mixture of sand, clay, small rocks, various animal droppings, road grime, rusty scale, etc)
2. Several handfuls of metal shavings
3. 4# and 9# hammers
4. Now this is very important....a wood rasp
5. Frosty beverages
6. some friends
7. A variety of chisels and punches
8. duct tape
9. a bucket of sludgy, slimy, gritty gunk
10. Grinder with a variety of wheels

OK, now the real work can commence.

First of all lets get the basics out of the way, mix up the sand with the metal shavings, now carefully holding one eye open pack the sand/metal mixture into one of your eyes. Make sure you get enough of the mixture in there to soak up several ounces of tears. Once your eye starts water profusely dip your free hand in the buckey of slimey, gritty, gunk and smear it around yoru face andinto your other eye. Got it? both eyes watering and you can barely see? good, on to step two

Step 2. Feel around for yoru hammers, place your free hand on your work bench so that your fingers are splayed and position yoru thumb so that the thumbnail is perpindicular to the bench top. Now start whamming with the hammer. Don't be timid here, smack yoruhand with all you have. Do it several times trying to flatten all 4 fingers, don't neglect the thumb, make sure you get a few good swings at it (I know this is hard as its hard to aim with your eyes blurry and watering but it important)

Step 3. Dance around and shake hand furiously (cussing is optional)

Step 4. With your throbbing hand graps the wood rasp firmly and work it back and forth across the knuckles of your other hand. You don't have to go down to the bone but you want to go deep.

Repeat Step 3

Step 5. dip your bleeding hand into the slimey, gritty, gunk bucket and then into the sand/metal shavings mixture, pack the open wounds deeply then repeat the process on your other hand.

Repeat Step 3.

Step 6. consume several frosty beverages and try and convince friends to come help you, regale them with your tales of the mornings work (they will come over...afterall who could resist witnessing a performance like that?)

Step 7. wrap your bleeding, shredded, throbbing hands in duct tape (to try in vain to protect them from future hammer strikes), wrap the chisels and punches in ductape (to try, in vain, to make them easier to grasp in your throbbing, greasy, grimy gritty, bleeding hands)...while you are at it, wrap the handles of the hammers as well.

Step 8. With the grinder, attack the heads of the rivets, either in the criss cross fashion or just outright grinding them down to frame level, now this is important, make sure you make at least one pass across the tops of yoru knuckles with the grinding wheel....

Repeat step 3 and maybe step 6

Step 9. Using the previously modified chisels and punches start whcking the tar out of the body of the rivet. Don't be bashful here, bang the tar out of it, make so much noise that you won't be able to hear it when your buddies finally show up and scare the tar out of you thus causing you to once more smash the tarnation out of your already bleady and throbbing hand.

Repeat Steps 3 and 6..............................


Enjoy
Bobby

Good luck, Steve
__________________

 

Thanks for the tips, I'll give the grinder and chisel / punch process a try. I may end up just waiting for the torch option since I've got a fairly large number to get out. I'm guessing there's about 30 that need to be removed between all the leaf spring hangers (front and back), and the crossmember / motor mount for the straight six.

Good tip on the gloves. I think they helped a bit with the miss before I gave up for the afternoon. My thumbnail is a nice purple now, but at least I don't have the framing hammer waffle mark on my skin Guess I should have taken the other suggestion to hold the punch with some vise grips or something like that.

Ralph

 

I just did the ones for my running board brackets and they were the same way. It appeared as though the holes were beveled just a dash (and the rivet head too). So if it were to shear off, it would stil have some head in the hole holding on.

I cut the ends off one side flush with the frame using my angle grinder, then used a BIG cold chisel and BIG [hand maul] hammer to get the chisel under the head of the rivet on the other side. About 2 big pops, say the "magic words", and then you can push it the rest of the way out with a punch - one hit.

Welcome to FTE by the way!

 

To get serious for a moment: DON'T EVER use a framing or claw hammer to strike a chisel, punch, another hammer or similar tool EVER!!! That's what ball peen and hand maul hammers are made for. A hammer designed for driving nails has a much harder tempered head, and striking another tempered steel tool can easily cause it to chip, sending a razor sharp piece of steel shrapnel flying off like a bullet (and it can be just as deadly, easily penetrating any safety glasses or face shield). Investing 10.00 in the proper tool can be paid back many fold compared to a hospital visit or worse. A claw hammer does not even belong in a mechanics tool set.
End of public service message we now return you to (humerous) programming already in progress...

PS you can't temper or harden plain mild steel by heating and quenching, you'll just make it soft. Only high carbon (tool) steel can be hardened and tempered (two seperate but related processes, tool steel that is hardened by heating and quenching can become brittle as glass and needs some of that hardness reduced by tempering before it becomes useful.)

 

Excellant point! I get lost in the process sometimes and forget to be specific about the tools!

 

Julie, I didn't see where you said anything about using a claw hammer, I know you would never do such a thing. A claw hammer was mentioned in passing in an earlier post, and the mere mention set off flashing lights and alarm bells in my head, so just in case someone took it as a serious idea, I posted my PSM. A hand maul (short handled heavy headed that resembles a shrunken sledge hammer) is an inexpensive tool that is very handy to have around a shop for many tasks from pounding in garden stakes to wacking a stubborn part into place. We always refered to it as the "persuader".

 

AXracer, took your advice and went on the hunt for a decent maul hammer or ball peen. Went to Sears, Home Depot, and Harbor Freight today (that's what's open on Sundays), and oddly enough on the maul and ball peen hammers at all 3 stores they all have stickers on them that warn against using them to strike another hardened steel item because of the risk of chipping. I ended up buying a 3lb Maul from Sears and a new Cold chisel set, but I'm curious if the safety warning on all of them is really something to be concerned with, or if it's just corporate lawyer liability avoidance?

I cut the cross in 5 rivets and popped the head off them all with the chisel and maul this afternoon. I've tried just beating them with a punch and drilling an 1/8" hole in the center of 3. At this point I've successfully gotten 1 rivet out, and the rest are just sitting there headless laughing in my face insisting they're not coming out. Maybe I should use an air chisel with a punch to try and rattle them out, or possibly drill bigger holes in the center of them, or possibly a combination of both, I'm not sure.

I'm wondering if actually just popping the heads and then completely drilling them out is the right option.

Anyway, appreciate the advice so far, if anyone else has any tips short of a torch that haven't already been suggested let me know.

Ralph

 

Julie you didn't mention the claw hammer, I did. And Ax, my point was to use the maul hammer as I was doing. You just said it more directly, which was the correct way to put it.

My claw hammers are right where they belong, hanging on pegboard with my hand saws and screw drivers.

 

Actually, I did mention framing hammer in regards to my blue thumb yesterday, so I assume AXracer was politely correcting me. Now that a couple people have commented on his PSA I figure I should point out I mentioned the framing hammer and using it in a moment of mental lapse. That's now back in the drawer of the toolbox not to be used on the truck again, or anywhere for that matter since the framing nailer is far more fun for framing anyway.

 

Ralph, try drilling a bigger hole, it worked for me. Just take your time - they will come out!

Glad you got the maul. It will come in handy for a lot of things other than working on your truck. Spiders are no match for it.