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Need advice, whats next block replacement?

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Old 04-12-2010, 07:32 PM
dk_dk dk_dk is offline
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Need advice, whats next block replacement?

I have had ongoing issues with my 2005 (80K) with rough idle at cold start, black and white smoke. The Dealership I have been working with tried to sluff me off to push me out of warranty, but thanks to these forums I was able to get some major repairs done. My truck has been in and out of the shop for almost 6 weeks since the start of this year.

Service history:
FICM - solved hard start, still rough idle with black/white smoke
Batteries - both replaced at my expense, was told it would solve, didn't
Injectors - two were marginal in testing and were replaced, no change
Oil and fuel filters changed - at my expense, again told would fix, didn't

Was told I needed to put diesel additive to boost the octane level and that would solve it. This was when I started to research and found this forum, thank god for that.

EGR valve, EGR cooler and oil cooler all replaced. Intake and Turbo Vanes cleaned. Unfortunately, no change, although the mechanic finally agreed there was some underlining issue - Head gasket leak.

Head gasket replaced, Degas bottle low level - fixed, Cylinder and distortion checks done, still not fixed.

Current Symptom:
Cold start this morning at 0 degrees Celsius. A small puff of black smoke then exhaust is clean for a few seconds then I get white smoke. Fast idle kicks in and more white smoke. I let it idle for a couple minutes then drove it, when accelerating there was ALOT of white smoke. After another 3 or 4 minutes it cleared up and burned clean.

What could this be? Did the mechanic mess up when putting the head gasket back, could this be a block issue? I have only a couple more days of warranty left and would like to have something to discuss with them. Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,
DK


DK
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Old 04-12-2010, 07:42 PM
liv liv is offline
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White smoke is coolant. Is this the first time starting since the gasket was changed?
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Old 04-12-2010, 08:29 PM
gearloose1 gearloose1 is offline
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Tell us exactly your start procedure in the morning, ambient temp, etc.

Do you wait for glow plugs to do its work? If so how long?
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:31 PM
dk_dk dk_dk is offline
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Coolant yes, I agree. Ambient was 0 degrees Celsius, or 32 Farenheit.

This was not the first time starting since the head gasket was done. I had started it a few times but never paid alot of attention to it, I ran it for about 60 miles before starting it this morning.

Start procedure, I used my command start and I have watched it before, the glow plug runs the time it needs.
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:49 PM
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what type of fuel are you running? some white smoke in cold weather is normal. if you are running any type of bio it will be worse. sounds almost like an issue with fuel gelling.

white smoke comes from one of two things under fuel or coolant. if your not using coolant then it only leaves fuel.
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:56 PM
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FordMan35 FordMan35 is offline
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My truck does the same thing when its that cold outside, and the higher the relative humidity the worse it is. I don't think this is a problem, because one of the products of burning fossil fuels it H2O, which will condens in the air and form a white cloud. I haven't lost any coolant since I have owned the truck. Almost a year now.
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:58 PM
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I am pretty sure it is a coolant issue, its too early to tell as this was all just flushed. Ford already agreed with me and did find the gasket issue. Its just at freezing so I doubt there is any gelling in the fuel. I do not use any special bio fuel, fill up at the Shell Flying J all the time.

The way they explained it to me is that a small leak will happen when the ambient temperature is cooler and a small bit of antifreeze gets into the cylinder wall. Onec the engine warms up a bit the leak seals off.

Thats why I was thinking, either they damage the gasket when they put it on (doubtful) or maybe a cracked head? Could a crack in the block do this also?
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FordMan35 View Post
My truck does the same thing when its that cold outside, and the higher the relative humidity the worse it is. I don't think this is a problem, because one of the products of burning fossil fuels it H2O, which will condens in the air and form a white cloud. I haven't lost any coolant since I have owned the truck. Almost a year now.
Good point, Calgary is dry but humidity level is up today. I would expect that the white smoke would be consistent and continue other than stopping after 5 minutes or so. It appears more that antifreeze is burning up from one or more of the cylinder walls.
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:05 PM
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cracked heads acnd cracked blocks are about as common as broken crankshafts imo. Ive seen one broken crank and that was caused by the DS operator.
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cheezit View Post
cracked heads acnd cracked blocks are about as common as broken crankshafts imo. Ive seen one broken crank and that was caused by the DS operator.
lol OK that puts me at some ease, thanks!
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:32 AM
BobbyB BobbyB is offline
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Mine had both heads replaced under warranty at 75,000, both cracked. Egr cooler failed and flashed boiled the coolant.
Also, same symtoms, white smoke at initial start-up.

Last edited by BobbyB; 04-13-2010 at 12:24 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 04-13-2010, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyB View Post
Mine had both heads replaced under warranty at 75,000, both cracked. Egr cooler failed and flashed boiled the coolant.
Also, same symtoms, white smoke at initial start-up.
BobbyB thanks. Maybe I do have a valid concern here. I took a video, its over 75MB though, maybe I can upload it somewhere. Here is the timing of events during the start today, again 32 F.


Truck started, small puff of black smoke and then a small amount of white smoke for about 6 seconds then it burns clean.
At 50 second mark, white smoke starts to appear and becomes consistent, I think more than you would normally see as regular exhaust.
At 1:38 larger quantity of white smoke then within a couple of seconds a small fluctuation in idle sound, thicker white smoke continues.
At 2:00 minute mark idle picks up and large amount of white smoke which is consistent to about the 4:30 mark when it starts to decrease.
4:30 to 5:30 mark it gradually decreases to no white smoke at all.
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Old 04-13-2010, 01:33 PM
ehgeeray ehgeeray is offline
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Have you pulled the egr valve to verify that the EGR cooler is not leaking again? Stranger things have happened... Some people have replaced an EGR cooler more than once...
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Old 04-13-2010, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehgeeray View Post
Have you pulled the egr valve to verify that the EGR cooler is not leaking again? Stranger things have happened... Some people have replaced an EGR cooler more than once...
No I haven't, still under warranty till tomorrow and am waiting for the mechanic to get back to me on what they figure will be wrong, but thanks it will be something I mention to them. I do know that the put it on the pressure tester after doing the work so when it left the shop it should have been ok.
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Old 04-13-2010, 02:05 PM
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VIDEO Link

I uploaded a video, you need quicktime to play, you can skip forward to the key times I mention in the post a few above. It is 73MB.

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
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