I have a 1951 f5 that we use to sell vegetables alongside the road. Just a farm truck, but I like it and it serves us well. Its about time for tires. It has 7.5x20's on it, with the split rims and duallies in the rear (stake bed, single speed rearend). I would like to change to a non-split rim. What are my options? Its a 5 lug pattern on an 8 inch circle I want to say.... whatever the stock pattern was is what I have. Our local tire shop has no problem with split rims, but if I could change them out economically, I'd really prefer to go that route. Thanks, Jim

 

[IMG}https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=7271&pictureid=28087{/IMG]

 

The exact tubeless replacement size for your tube type 20s is a 22.5". Nobody makes these anymore with the 5 lug x 8" pattern. Used wheels are out there, but it would take some looking on your part. Here's a chart that shows why a 20" tube type and 22.5" tubeless are equals.



Tubeless 19.5" wheels will also fit your truck. American Wheel Specialist in Pasco, WA, sells new 19.5" motor home wheels that will work quite well. They look a bit different than stock wheels, we think because the wider center is designed to accommodate disc brake calipers. Here's a thread where a member describes his experience with these wheels.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...xperience.html

Your stock 20" wheels are most likely the "widow maker" type where the halves connect at the middle of the wheel. Here's a couple pics of one to help you tell whether you have them. If you have these you are wise to get rid of them. If, however, you have the style where a locking ring on the outer face of the wheel holds things together, those are generally still safe to use as long as they are not damaged, badly rusted, etc. Finding used lock ring wheels is still possible. Some of us have saved them from the recylcer for situations like yours. Stu

 

Howdy,


In today's litigious society, I wouldn't even take a set of widow makers to a tire shop and let them mount tires on them.

I would be worried that if the kid at the tire shop killed himself, his family would not only sue the tire shop but would drag me into it as well because I should "know better".

All Les Schwab Tire told me was that they could only break them down and condemn them. I would not get them back. (I didn't want them back!)


This is where Les Schwab in Bonney Lake WA got my current lock-ring 20" wheels. They were rebuilt by the above place. If I had it to do over again, I would get the 19.5" tubeless 5-lug "Budds" from them!


Pictures in my Gallery!


Cheers,



Rick

 

If you want to go with used 22.5s, you might check with Chuck Mantiglia at Chuck's Trucks. He commonly has these or, if none on hand, has a good network of yards and knows where to find them. Here's his web site. Chucks Trucks LLC., Chuck's Trucks, Chucks Trucks

 

Wow... I had no idea wheels and tires were going to be an issue... in all honesty, the truck is just not worth putting $4000. worth of wheels and tires into.
Used Steel 19.5's seem to be fairly common, I am thinking it might be easier to buy a used set of those and either weld and re-drill for the 5 on 8 pattern and center hole, or remove the centers from my stock widowmakers and true and weld it to the new rim. I would need to get the backspacing right. There was a set of dually rims off an F450 advertised locally for $100 each. Fordmuscle had an article on a guy doing that with smaller steelies. Any thoughts or ideas appreciated. There has to be a more viable solution than spending that kind of bucks.

 

This is why I mentioned finding used 20" "lock ring" style wheels. Living as far south as you do, there should be rural scrap yards in the area that would have some that aren't too badly rusted. For an occasional use truck, they should do you just fine and would be cheap. The high scrap prices of the last few years clean out some of the remaining wheels, but they should still be around.

Your concern about backspacing is valid. Your truck's 7.50 x 20s are probably mounted on 5" wide rims. Max 6". Many of the newer rims are gonna be too wide and will rub. I've even heard of inner fender well rubbing with the much sought after 22.5" x 6.75" tubeless wheels.

Making your own tubeless with donor 19.5" x 6" is an option too, but keep in mind that you're putting the safety of others on the road at risk if you have a wheel failure. Stu

 

Thanks so much for the replies...the forum is great..there is just a wealth of knowledge and experience out there for the asking. Next question... In looking for the 20 inch split ring wheels, what vehicles did they come on... and was the 5 on 8 a common pattern back in the day? Are old school bus' a player? I have seen few of them around. I think back spacing will be an issue. Despite the huge size of the F5, there is also not a lot of room under the front fenders. The rears seem to have some room side to side. In reading other forums I guess the brake hub diameter is pretty big also.
As far as safety goes, I wont chance it. Making something is a distant option that I'd rather not have to do. I was a machinist in the Navy and had an aircraft restoration shop for a long time, so someones *** was always depending on my work, but like I said, given the choice, I'd really rather not have to.
I guess another option, on the rear at least, would be to change the rearend to something more modern. This truck really works well for us, and reliability is a lot more important than originality is. I would like to preserve the looks though.
Thanks again for all the great replies,
Jim

 

Good sources for lock ring 20s are late '40/early '50s IHCs. Like models K-5 or KB-5, or L, R, and S 150s and 160s. The beauty of IHCs is that they almost always came with Goodyear split lock rings as opposed to the Firestone widowmakers or Firestone style solid lock rings, and they are all stud piloted. I've never heard of one from that era that was hub piloted. Another good source is 1940s era Studebaker M15s and M16s. They too were stud piloted, but you have to avoid the 1949 and later 2R series because they switched to hub piloted around 1949. And last of the common sources is Dodge. Again, always stud piloted during those years, and generally lock ring style. You'll also find 5 lug x 8" circle wheels on old GMCs, but they to my understanding were all hub piloted. Chevy used a 10 lug x 7.25" circle, also hub piloted, so walk past them in the yards.

Looking back at old Budd Wheel catalogs the dish/offset figures were pretty much universal on all their wheels. The 20" x 5" had 4.75" of offset (also recorded as 9.5" of dual spacing), the 20" x 5.5" had 5" of offset (10" dual spacing), the 20" x 6" had 5.5" offset (11" dual spacing), and 20" x 6.5" had 5 9/16" offset (11.125" dual spacing). I doubt you'll want to go wider than that (at least on the front). The catalogs also clearly show that the same Budd part numbers are listed for use by all of these manufacturers.

Good luck in your search. Stu

 

Hi Stu,
I have looked high and low for wheels, just can't seem to find anything so I have pretty well come to the conclusion that I am going to have to make something. I have a few questions that I was hoping you could answer.
In looking at my widowmakers, it appears the centers are riveted onto the outer rim. In my search, I have found 22.5" X 9 bus tires and wheels to be readily available and really affordable...most seem to have good tires with the outer rim for around $150 per complete set of 6
My question is... If I were to drill out the rivets and remove the dish on the widowmakers, is the ID on the 22.5" wheel rim the same as on the 20"? The diagram you sent on the first post that explains the diameter of a 20" wheel is the same s a 22.5" tubeless, it appears the rim (I m sorry if I am using the right term... on smaller wheels I believe they call it the shell), to be the same where it would accommodate the widowmaker center being being re-riveted or welded into place.
A good friend who owns a huge petro chemical machine shop offered to chuck everything into a big lathe to true it up and weld into place and balance... his concern was that the wheels might be hardened. If I could re-rivet, or even bolt into place, it would eliminate that concern, but my preference would be to weld. He has the facilities to test the metals for hardness, but I hate to be more of a PITA than I already am. What are your thoughts. If these "homemade" rims were too big for the front (I think 9" is a little wide) I would still use them on the rear I think. Am I correct?
Lastly, thanks for all your posts. I have learned a bunch just by reading them. This forum really has a ton of info.

 

Yes, I believe the center of a 20" widowmaker should be exactly the same outside diameter as the tubeless rim's inside diameter measured at the drop center. I qualify that by saying "I believe" because I've never measured these sizes. I have, however, measured and compared my 17" lock rings with my 19.5" tubeless and they match exactly. The same concept applies to these sizes as applies to the 20"/22.5" combo.

Rim width will be an issue. Most modern 22.5s will be too wide. I have a friend that had 22.5" x 6.75" wheels with 9R22.5s on his truck and had mild rubbing on the extremes of the turning radius. He then switched to the old 5.25" style with the 9" tires (they aren't really recommended for that narrow rim width) and loves it. Hopefully some of the guys that have 22.5s on their trucks will add their observations on this point.

Centers were riveted on the old wheels, but to my understanding the laws now require centers to be welded. I can't say whether the factories use special welding techniques or materials.

If it was me, especially since it's a limited use truck, I'd continue to look for used lock ring 20s. Stu

 

shiner texas? Thats awesome, Shiner bock is one of my favorite beers! Anyway I am in Lake Charles, LA about thirty miles from the texas line and have a set of 19.5 I bought for $365 and I changed my mind I want a set of 22.5s so if you are intrested I will sale them for what I paid for them.

 

This is a darn good solution, and reasonably close by. Most of the 19.5s are 6" wide which is closer to your stock rim width than any 22.5s available today. I paid more than that for my 19.5s, but I guess if you factor in a couple tanks of gas it'd probably be close. Stu

 

F6guy, PM sent. If we strike a deal I'll bring you a case of Shiners finest.

 

I have a 1953 ford 500 dump truck with five lug rim 8.50X20" wheel it has the widow maker wheel would like to change them to somthing safer would any one have any safer AFFORDABLE....wheels