Pre-ignition knocking
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4wd High
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 9
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Pre-ignition knocking
Just wanted to get some opinions here about a small problem I am having. My V-10 started "pinging" off and on last year, and at times was pretty bad. It would help if I bumped up the octane in the fuel, but not completely. A mechanic freind says it is most likely an O2 sensor causing the timing to advance too much. Before I start throwing parts at it, does an O2 sensor sound like the most likely cause. I do not currently have a scanner to check them, although it is on my list of things to get. Thanks
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 423
From: Long Island USA
No, an O2 sensor is probably NOT the cause.
It could be a bunch of things, do all the tuneup stuff, like a fuel filter, clean the MAF, air filter, etc. etc.
Is it really a ping, or a heat shield, the bellhousing cover, or anything else?
We've had a handful of people complain about pinging, and they sometimes never ever find out what's wrong, they just disappear
It could be a bunch of things, do all the tuneup stuff, like a fuel filter, clean the MAF, air filter, etc. etc.
Is it really a ping, or a heat shield, the bellhousing cover, or anything else?
We've had a handful of people complain about pinging, and they sometimes never ever find out what's wrong, they just disappear
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4wd High
Joined: Jun 2009
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The truck has 75,000 miles. And yes I am sure it is engine pinging. I have a suspicion that another noise I have is the bell housing cover. But the pinging is very obvious at low rpm under power. I have thought about replacing the knock sensor, but I am not sure that will do much to stop the pinging.
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,924
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From: Richmond BC
The truck has 75,000 miles. And yes I am sure it is engine pinging. I have a suspicion that another noise I have is the bell housing cover. But the pinging is very obvious at low rpm under power. I have thought about replacing the knock sensor, but I am not sure that will do much to stop the pinging.
everything i have read it seems the stock Ford fuel map is not very good under those conditions..
seems people who get teh revised fuel software in the 5star tuner, claim ping goes away and you gain a bunch of power, simply from better use of whats in the engien already..
Mike described it best like this " imagine a sprinter being forced to run in rubber boots, then give that same runner a set of professional level runnin shoes", thats what gonig with a tuner can do..
it doesnt change the runner, just the conditions the runner has to work with.
think of it as hidden power, just waiting to be unleashed..
p.s. for what its worth my truck does the same thing..if i try to climb a mild grade in OD with RPMs below1500, the engine will start pinging. if i drop it out of OD the ping goes away.. moments like these make me wanan just pony up and order a dam 5Star tuner on teh spot...that pinging gives me nitemares of my motor grenading
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,101
Likes: 40
From: Pa
The truck has 75,000 miles. And yes I am sure it is engine pinging. I have a suspicion that another noise I have is the bell housing cover. But the pinging is very obvious at low rpm under power. I have thought about replacing the knock sensor, but I am not sure that will do much to stop the pinging.
I would change the plugs and boots, clean the MAF sensor and replace the fuel filter if its been in there more than 10k miles then go from there.
The stock tuning on the truck is programmed to run stoich most of the time whitch can make kncok worse. Even with my truck tuned with fresh plugs and everything I still get a little knock when lugging the truck below 1300rpm in OD, mainly in the winter months. During the summer the knock disappears.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 423
From: Long Island USA
VERY interesting...
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Senior User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 303
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From: "Garden State"
Not to be pushing anybody's product but my "fix" was a simple non mechanical one. I'm also a member of bobistheoilguy and after research I tried LCD products, specifically LC 20 for the oil and FP 60 for the fuel. All I can say is they worked for me. My cold temp ping is minimized and I no longer have the "exhaust leak" sound. The down side is you have to add the fuel additive every fuel fill and the oil fill every 1,000 miles after the initial fill. It's a high maintanence product, but it works for me.
Whimsey
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Former Vendor
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: South Carolina
Excellent info from everyone...
Absolutley check these below first:
clean maf
new spark plugs
new fuel filter
remove and clean throttle body front & behind blades
run some seafoam through engine via vacuum
o2 sensors check or replace
From a Stock Programming side.. that a tune would help correct.
Fuel strategies in stock programming are not set up correct for open loop situations.
Knock sensor strategies in the stock programming ,most of the time the retard rate and the rate it retards is not aggressive enough.
(I would not replace the Knock sensor as most of them are just not that precise of a sensor anyways.)
Spark/Timing adders.. timing can be added and substracted based on coolant and air temps.. cooler conditions PCM will add
timing warmer conditions PCM will subtract timing. The Stock programming strategies are set up ok here but based on a vehicles
condition and location these can be modified as well.
Last option is for high mileage vehicles and depending on how severe knock is pull heads and service them..remove carbon build up from heads and pistons.
Absolutley check these below first:
clean maf
new spark plugs
new fuel filter
remove and clean throttle body front & behind blades
run some seafoam through engine via vacuum
o2 sensors check or replace
From a Stock Programming side.. that a tune would help correct.
Fuel strategies in stock programming are not set up correct for open loop situations.
Knock sensor strategies in the stock programming ,most of the time the retard rate and the rate it retards is not aggressive enough.
(I would not replace the Knock sensor as most of them are just not that precise of a sensor anyways.)
Spark/Timing adders.. timing can be added and substracted based on coolant and air temps.. cooler conditions PCM will add
timing warmer conditions PCM will subtract timing. The Stock programming strategies are set up ok here but based on a vehicles
condition and location these can be modified as well.
Last option is for high mileage vehicles and depending on how severe knock is pull heads and service them..remove carbon build up from heads and pistons.
Thread Starter
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4wd High
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
I just had spark plugs and boots replaced about 5,000 miles ago. Has K&N air intake and a Gibson exhaust. Fuel filter is replaced every 12,000 - 15,000 miles. I clean K&N filter twice each year. Do not have $400 right now for a programmer, so if nothing else helps I will have to keep filling up with 90 octane gas.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,223
Likes: 89
From: TN
That is the first I have heard of this. Interesting. I just changed to 5w30 Motorcraft syn this weekend. Hmmm. May have to change back! I do have pinging, but I think it is exhaust stud related.
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,101
Likes: 40
From: Pa
First you heard of it because it makes no sense. A thinner oil will get past the rings quicker than a thicker oil like w30. Not that it makes much difference when the oil is at 200+ degrees anyway. Ford is recommending 5w30 in more engines now than they did ten years ago. Besides I bet money as much or more oil gets ran through the engine from the PCV system putting it back in the intake than gets past the rings. Don't run Techron in the truck if you are pulling much of any weight, it will make detonation worse while running it.(don't ask me how I know)
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,223
Likes: 89
From: TN
Well, since I have switched oil weight to 5w30, the startup knock is about 1-2 secs vs 3-5 secs. I have not put enough miles on it to gauge oil consumption, which was about 1/2 qt per 3k miles, not bad anyway. I bought Seafoam last night to clean the fuel and intake system and will do that today. Hopefully will help in the 'ping' dept. Yeah, I did the Techron when towing too. ONCE! Not advised!!
I will have to check the under hood sticker on mine to see what weight oil is on it. My manual and the oil cap have 5w20. I have always thought that is a awfully thin oil to use on a large working engine. I just attributed to smaller oil passages in the internal components needed the thinner oil to move through.
I will have to check the under hood sticker on mine to see what weight oil is on it. My manual and the oil cap have 5w20. I have always thought that is a awfully thin oil to use on a large working engine. I just attributed to smaller oil passages in the internal components needed the thinner oil to move through.