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UPDATE @ POST #58__**WARNING**IDLE OR NOT TO IDLE?, that is the debate.

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1999 to 2016 Super Duty 1999 to 2016 Ford F250, F350, F450 and F550 Super Duty with diesel V8 and gas V8 and V10 engines
View Poll Results: HOW LONG TO YOU ALLOW YOUR DIESEL ENGINE TO IDLE???
NEVER
6.73%
1-10 minutes
66.35%
10-30 minutes
20.19%
30-60 minutes
0.96%
More than 1 hour
6.73%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 104. You may not vote on this poll

UPDATE @ POST #58__**WARNING**IDLE OR NOT TO IDLE?, that is the debate.

 
  #1  
Old 02-09-2010, 02:46 PM
A H DEVELOPMENT
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Exclamation UPDATE @ POST #58__**WARNING**IDLE OR NOT TO IDLE?, that is the debate.

Is it OK or NOT, to allow a turbocharged 7.3L PSD to idle??????????
There are FTE members on both sides of this debate, but I want the actual mechanical ANSWER. So let's produce it so we can resolve this debate and so some of us can sleep easy at night. I always allow my 2001 turbocharged 7.3L PSD(260,000 mi) to idle in the morning for 20-30min.


These are two posts(NOT FTE) I recently discovered while researching this topic-

Originally Posted by berto4599
I'm a in school to become a diesel mechanic I know what I'm talking about.

The cylinder walls glaze due to the rings not having the higher combustion pressures from being under load pushing them outward. This allows the rings and cylinders and oil to all rub each other until they are happy and polished . This glaze is a bunch of combustion by product embedded in the walls from the lack of scraping by the rings.

A couple of hours probly wont hurt it. It happens a lot in big rigs. Guys leave their engines idling all night to keep the cab warm little do they know theyre ruining their engine. Hey think what you want, if your planning on letting it idle for more then 5 hours or so bump up the idle.



__________________________________________________ ________
Originally Posted by Tyler
Blowby is your MAIN reason for glazing. If you don't take care of your engine (ie: regular maintenance, etc.) then you can start to wear out your rings and cooling jets and build up some blow by.

Now lets see some perspective on why your medium duty diesel engine most likley isn't going to develop a glaze after idling for... lets say an hour because that's what most guys do. I'd say a good 95% of our trucks here idle at 300-400 degrees F, at idle. That's temp INSIDE the exhaust manifold, it may be slightly higher in the combustion chamber. Given the fact that I haven't seen anyone post here or discuss an engine with less than 20,000 miles on it, we can safely assume your motor is fairly broken in... I'd say over 50,000 miles. The amount of wear on the cylinder wall, and the pressure pushing on very good broke in rings is WAY to tight to allow enough blow by, and the tempurature is NOT hot enough to flash burn the oil.

At a stock fuel setting not enough fuel is pushed in to cause a wet stack... although it MAY happen if temps are EXTREMLEY cold, I don't see it happening to you.

Now, IF you have a NEW engine, the rings will not seal as good and they will let a little bit more oil by, and the glazing is possible if your not loading the motor down over 70%.

Also, you need to remember that the compression ratio of the motor we are talking about is 17.5:1

Since your teacher can't teach you about a diesel, let me say this.. take 17 and a half beer cans, smash them into 1 beer can, thats the amount of air going into the combustion chamber. At an idle the drive pressure is pretty intense and a major blow by is really not very likely. As RPM goes up, compression does go DOWN, that's where you would see your glaze come about, but still... its not going to happen because in a diesel, the rings are designed with a curved lip, so as to when the piston is coming UP, the air pushes the top ring down and out. Another preventiive measure to kill wet stacking and glazing.

Lets see... what else... your teacher is a ... leave that school


Opinions are welcomed, however let everybody know that they are only your opinions, because remember we are looking for FACTS AND TRUSTWORTHY INFO. Info on diesel engines as a whole are fine, however PSD is best.

OK let us give this a shot

 

Last edited by A H DEVELOPMENT; 02-18-2010 at 04:30 PM. Reason: UPDATE @ POST #58
  #2  
Old 02-09-2010, 02:56 PM
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I'm interested in the answer as well, but I don't believe I would learn much in Mr Tyler's classroom. After 17 and half cans of beer, I just ain't going to give a [email protected], and my liver ain't going to like me either.
 
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:19 PM
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I don't really know the answer, but I do not idle mine much at all. However I live in Florida so I am not to concerned about it warming up, or warming up the interior of the truck. However during the summer time I will probably be idling the truck to cool it off! So I am very interested in the answer. Right now I idle it for about 30 sec per owners manual and that is about it.
 
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 03silverTJ View Post
I don't really know the answer, but I do not idle mine much at all. However I live in Florida so I am not to concerned about it warming up, or warming up the interior of the truck. However during the summer time I will probably be idling the truck to cool it off! So I am very interested in the answer. Right now I idle it for about 30 sec per owners manual and that is about it.

What model is your truck, 03silverTJ?

Thanks for your post
 
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Old 02-09-2010, 04:03 PM
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99 7.3, I usually let it idle for around 10 minutes each morning this time of year. But... I use a 1200rpm high idle tune. IIRC Ford says idling longer than 10 minutes WITHOUT a way to increase idle speed is abuse. There's really no need to let it idle much more than 10 minutes unless its really, really frickin' cold out there.
 
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:07 PM
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I'm the one who responded with more then I hour of idling. Where I live diesels are sometimes idled for days primarily because if you shut them off for several hours they may not start again unless equiped with dual electric battery blankets and block heaters. Our convenience stores sell more fuel line antifreeze then milk. Did I mention that our winters are 5 months long ! cheers

Bill
 
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Polar Skipper View Post
I'm the one who responded with more then I hour of idling. Where I live diesels are sometimes idled for days primarily because if you shut them off for several hours they may not start again unless equiped with dual electric battery blankets and block heaters. Our convenience stores sell more fuel line antifreeze then milk. Did I mention that our winters are 5 months long ! cheers

Bill


Brrrrrr!!!!!!!!! That's cold!!!!!
 
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:39 PM
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Question

Originally Posted by superduty4x4 View Post
99 7.3, I usually let it idle for around 10 minutes each morning this time of year. But... I use a 1200rpm high idle tune. IIRC Ford says idling longer than 10 minutes WITHOUT a way to increase idle speed is abuse. There's really no need to let it idle much more than 10 minutes unless its really, really frickin' cold out there.



IIRC Ford ???
 
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:49 PM
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IIRC stands for If I Recall Correctly.

Originally Posted by 03silverTJ View Post
I idle it for about 30 sec per owners manual and that is about it.
You kill it at stop lights??
 
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Old 02-09-2010, 06:02 PM
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by Firekite View Post
IIRC stands for If I Recall Correctly.



Ooooooh!!!! OK I gotcha thanks Firekite.

Thanks for your post, Firekite
 
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Old 02-09-2010, 06:18 PM
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IIRC = If I Remember Correctly

Ford addressed the cold weather idle issue by programming a high idle "mode" in the PCM. When oil temps and ambient temps are low, the PCM will automatically raise the idle of the engine anywhere between 900-1300 RPM's (depending on temps).

Low speed idling (~650 rpms stock idle) for extended periods can cause a little wear over time. If you idle your engine for hours on end, have your oil tested. You'll find more fuel in the oil than average.

If you do plan to idle your truck for long periods, install an auxiliary idle control to bump the RPM's up. The stock programming doesn't always raise idle on it's own, because it sources oil temps and ambient temps. On a fully warm engine, it has to idle for some time before oil temps drop to the point of engaging the high idle feature.

Here is a snippet from the Ford TSB's:
The IAT signal provides air temperature information to the PCM. The PCM uses the air temperature information to operate the Exhaust Back-Pressure (EBP) system and to determine the cold idle setpoint. During long idle periods at cold ambient temperatures, the setpoint will increase engine rpm.
At low ambient air temperatures, and oil temperature below 50C (122F), low idle is increased to a maximum of 1300 rpm to increase engine warm-up.
Now, the reasons against extended idling at low RPM's is a combination of wet stacking and cylinder washdown. At lower temps (both oil and ambient temps), wet stacking occurs with an incomplete combustion. On a cold engine, a diesel can have some white smoke at idle, this is due to incomplete combustion, and you have raw fuel exiting through the exhaust. Extended idling in this condition can lead to wet stacking. In addition, incomplete combustion can cause a washdown effect on the cylinder walls, and cause wear to the rings, as well as fuel ending up in the crankcase.

Also, the stock programming advances the timing by quite a bit on a cold engine. This sprays fuel well beyond the bowl of the piston.

Personally, I don't idle my truck long, if at all. The only time it sits in the driveway idling is if I'm scraping snow off. That's it. A few minutes tops. Every other time I just crank and go.
 
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by A H DEVELOPMENT View Post
What model is your truck, 03silverTJ?

Thanks for your post
Its at 2010 6.4

You kill it at stop lights??
Yes....

Did I say that in my post? Of course I don't kill it at stop lights! That would be ridiculous, common sense man... I was referring to warm up.

This is directly from the Power Stroke 6.0 and 6.4 Liter Owners Guide,

Cold Weather Starting

"Your vehicle may be equipped with a cold weather starting strategy that prevents severe engine damage by assisting in engine lubrication warm-up. In extremely cold ambient temperatures, this strategy activates and prevents the accelerator pedal from being used for 30 seconds after starting the vehicle." The manual also states that this would be in temperatures at -15 degrees F and -26 degrees C. Also in those temperatures it recommends "letting the engine idle for several minutes before driving the vehicle."

This is #3 in the steps to starting the engine in cold weather.

"After the engine starts, allow it to idle for about 15 seconds. This is to protect the engine. Do not increase engine speed until the oil pressure gauge indicates normal pressure."

I know where I am the temps are no where near as cold as where some of you live, but just to play it safe I let it idle for 15-30 seconds or do before driving.


Just a little info from the books for you guys!
 
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by 2002 7.3L Diesel Suppliment
COLD WEATHER STARTING

1. Make sure all vehicle occupants have buckled their safety belts. For
more information on safety belts and their proper usage, refer to Seating
and safety restraints chapter in the owner guide.

2. Make sure the headlamps and vehicle accessories are off.

3. Turn the key to the ON position.
When the WAIT TO START light
goes off, turn the key to START.
(For Canadian vehicles, the daytime
running lamps will be on if the
parking brake is not applied and the key is turned to ON.)

4. When the engine starts, release the key. The glow plugs will continue
to be activated for up to two minutes. If the engine is not started before
the activation ceases, the glow plug system must be reset by turning the
ignition key to OFF.

5. After the engine starts, allow it to idle for about 15 seconds. (Do not
increase engine speed until the oil pressure gauge indicates normal
pressure.)
15 seconds is NOT 20 minutes!
 
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:39 AM
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When I had my old Dodge Cummins diesel I would let idle for a good half-hour, sold the truck with 220,000 miles on it I believe it's still running today just the rest of the truck fell apart ;-). I'm no engineer but after growing up on tractors we used too and still do idle 1 to 2 hours before using them if you want to get anything done with the hydraulic fluid especially if the air temperature is 15 and colder. Wet stacking usually never occurs because once you get the tractor started you raise the RPM to about 1500, and on some older units 60-ish tractors that have been handed down from my father throw in the PTO with either a snowblower or some type of load and let her scream. One other observation I've noticed the newer tractors burn fuel efficiently with the rail injection rather than the old pump system that would just load the cylinders with fuel which would end with wet stacking which basically is a cool running combustion chamber, also with the price of fuel many owners are afraid to let the truck burn up at one-time five dollars a gallon fuel !! I think it's a matter of preference for every diesel mechanic that will tell you not to do it five more will tell you it's okay, been there done that with John Deere, case, international and now Deutz-Fahr and new Holland oldest tractor 1960 John Deere 4010 still going strong :-) just a few clutches.
 
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Old 02-10-2010, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by 03silverTJ View Post
Did I say that in my post? Of course I don't kill it at stop lights! That would be ridiculous, common sense man... I was referring to warm up.
Well yes, that would be ridiculous. That was the point of making that joke (and partially a clarification for the extra reactionary out there).

Originally Posted by Crazy001 View Post
15 seconds is NOT 20 minutes!
Well yes, I think we're all clear on that. Notice by the way that it didn't say "let it idle for no longer than 15 seconds"...
 

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