Well, after all guys, the other day my Ford dealer did label me a dinosar based on my needs and wants in a new truck, so, you can take what I say with the grain of salt. And, if you think he would loan me a new '11 to try out pulling my tanks, well Mr Adrian, maybe both of us are from the old school!
Yeah, I am sure I would like starting those two tanks out in a soft field with an automatic. I can already smell the tranny fluid burning in the torque converter. Or, maybe this new synthetic doesn't burn?

I love my F-350 V-10
Mark (the dinosar)

 

I don't think you are giving even the current Torqshift it's due respect. It would easily handle what you can dish out, and we all hope the new 6 speed will be even better. If your clutch is holding up, the TS would have as well.

But we do agree on the V-10. I wanted it in my next truck, or at least the truck after that.

 

Wow Mark. I tried to stay out of this one. I know everyone has their wants and needs. But you are condemning this new engine without ever having seen it, touched it, driven it, without even a second thought. You refuse to listen to what people are saying about it, even to the degree that they know. You won't even listen to one of the lead engineers for the new engine. Unbelievable! I used to tell my kids whenever they said "YUCK" to some food they never had before "You cannot say you don't like it if you've never tasted it!". The same thing applies here. How can you possibly know the new 6.2L with the new 6 speed tranny will not do what you need it to do? I mean really. You have already been jury and judge and pronounced this new truck guilty...and you've never even seen or touched it!

Well, good luck with your new Chevy or Dodge. See ya around.

 

It sounds like the 6.2L V-8 can have some advantages. It would be nice to be able to have a manual transmission. It would also be nice to be able to buy one without all of the mandated "big brother" electronic junk on it also. Don't need tire pressure monitors and such. The manufacturers and government can try to idiot proof vehicles all they want, but the idiots will win every time. The rest of us will pay the extra cost in purchase price and maintenance in a futile attempt to save a few idiots from themselves. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Oh, and lose the stacked bearing design in the 4wd models. I never had the "Death Wobble" in a 97 or older Super Duty.

 

Mike, why is the Triton name being dropped?

 

I agree with every part of that!

 

I do too.

Especially now that the electronic content of new vehicles accounts for half the price of the vehicle.

Enough already!

 

OK, getting back to the new V-8 design. I also have some questions:

First, I'd like to discuss the piston jets. From what I have read, oil is squirted up into the underside of the pistons to cool them, which allows a higher compression ratio. Will the new 6.2L V-8 design have an external oil cooler to assist in carrying away this heat? Will there be a shorter service interval because of this?

Second, intake design and construction. Early modular engines used an intake manifold made of metal and plastic. These were prone to cracking and leaking. Please discuss the intake manifold design (runner length and volume) and construction.

 

Hi Mike thanks again for the reply

One more. Do you happen to know when in tow/haul mode or non tow/hual mode while also in Manual Mode will the Torque Converter 1) lock up and 2 ) stay locked up at close throttle to give a sense of a manual tranny will some engine braking? I am referring to top gears one may manually lock out to or operate truck in: like 3,4,5.

thank you
Mike

 

My 94 F-Superduty had the death wobble, my 2000 F450 did not. My 05 F450 had it, my 09 F550 & 03 F450 does not.

 

Very sad to see the V10 go. It always seemed to me that the reason Ford didn't sell more was because they didn't make more!! Took a lot of time to find mine how I wanted it.

I guess what this probably will do is fit the majority of SD owners, at least the ones I know. They tow/haul maybe 5% of the time, and the rest of it is spent going back and forth to work, or taking Johnny to soccer practice. I know most folks on here on not that way.....mine normally doesn't leave the driveway much unless the bed is full or it's hooked up to something; but I truly think most owners are not that way.

It's great you've put lots of hours and miles into testing these! Of course, the same was said for the 6.0 diesel I had two of those, both problems. And I also believe there were at least some suggestions from Ford that the 6.4 diesel was going to be more efficient than the 6.0 (better mileage), and what a mess that has become. Hopefully since this new 6.2 gasser is in-house, you have much better controls on it.

Will always be a Ford guy, and the fact that Ford didn't take bailout money cemented that. Just hate to see something that works exactly as intended go away. Remember the best truck engine ever? The inline 6 300? Sure wish that one was still around.

Thanks for coming onto the site, Mike!

 

Boy, this thread has certainly gotten off topic!

I've had limited experience with a V10 towing, and it was done while comparing other engines Ford puts in it's SD trucks. Like everything else in life, the V10 has has it's strong points and weak points. The goal of any powerplant is to have more of the strong points without sacrificing as much.

The 5.4 and 6.8L engines were great for towing because they pulled hard at low RPMs and had the grunt to drag heavy things down the freeway without having to constantly downshift and rev to make power like much of the competition. To do this they used a long stroke and valving to make torque peak out down low. To do this you sacrifice horsepower because such a long stroke engine can't rev as high as the competition. Making all that torque down low means they don't make as much up high, limiting horsepower.

For superior horsepower and torque they added two cylinders. This also was a sacrifice because even though you had stump pulling power, efficiency is considerably less than the smaller 5.4L engine.

So with either engine you had to choose between lack of efficiency and lack of top end power. What if I want both?

This seems to be what the 6.2 is designed to deliver. With the claimed increases in MPG as well as horsepower, while retaining a strong, flat torque curve, we are going to get it all. How do I know this? Because Mike already told us that the 6.2 outperforms the 5.4 all across the rev range, meaning it's still going to have a stout low end. We also know from everything we've ever heard on this engine that it's going to produce somewhere around 400 HP, and that it outpulls the V10 from 4,000 RPM on.

So we're gonna have an engine that will pull slightly better than the 5.4 at lower RPMs and pull significantly harder than the "mighty" V10 up high. All while delivering better MPGs than the 5.4. This coupled with a 6-speed transmission that will have no difficulty putting the engine exactly where it needs to be to make power. How can anyone NOT like this?

For those who are afraid of change, and you know who you are, you might want to drive an '11 before continuing to bash Mike and the rest of the Ford design team's efforts!

Now...can we get back on topic?

Mike, can you tell us why it was decided to move away from the 3-valve heads currently in use? Simplicity? Cost? That third valve gave us 60 HP in the 5.4 and 40 in the 4.6, couldn't such a design improve power on the new motor as well?

 

My question is this: Do you have any personal experience towing with the V10 in a similar configuration/test setting as the Denver/Utah test above? And if so, can you share your opinion on any differences/comparisons you may have noticed between the two?[/quote]

On the same trip we had a chassis cab V10 with a load box on the back. If I remember correctly it was loaded to 17k GCVW. It tended to pull the hills at similar speeds, but was more comfortable at lower RPMs, whereas the 6.2L trucks wanted to rev a little more.

 

Hotshoe & everyone else who has asked - all of the GCVW ratings, payload capacities and trailer tow ratings will be announced at the end of the month.

Mike.

 

Radium - some info on the new transmission from the Ford Media Site.

NEW TORQSHIFT SIX-SPEED TRANSMISSION HARNESSES, CHANNELS INCREASED POWER FROM NEW FORD ENGINES

New 6R140 Heavy-Duty TorqShift(R) 6-Speed Automatic Transmission


* The new 6R140 heavy-duty TorqShift® six-speed automatic transmission is specifically designed to handle the increased torque produced by the all-new Ford-designed, Ford-engineered and Ford-built 6.7-liter Power Stroke® V-8 turbocharged diesel and also will be mated to the all-new 6.2-liter V-8 gasoline engine
* The new TorqShift transmission’s wider gear span, advanced controls that optimize the shift schedule, reduced parasitic friction losses and lower-rpm torque converter lock-up all contribute to improving fuel economy in the 2011 Ford Super Duty
* The new 6R140 transmission provides full SelectShift™ capability and is available with segment-exclusive Live Drive Power Take Off (PTO) with the new diesel engine



FACT SHEET: 6R140 HEAVY-DUTY TORQSHIFT SIX-SPEED TRANSMISSION

All-new diesel and gasoline engines are key reasons why the 2011 Ford F-Series Super Duty maintains best-in-class towing and payload and adds enhanced off-road capability. Managing the increased horsepower and torque is the all-new 6R140 heavy-duty TorqShift® six-speed transmission, which delivers power quickly and seamlessly while maximizing fuel economy.

“Our new transmission perfectly complements our new diesel and gasoline engines to give the customer the best powertrain for Super Duty applications,” said Al Bruck, 6R140 transmission engineering manager. “Rigorous testing ensures our transmission and powertrain is up to the challenge of even our most demanding Super Duty customers. Overall, the 6R140 heavy-duty TorqShift six-speed transmission enables greater customer capability, efficiency and control than ever before.”

Creating a transmission to serve both diesel and gasoline engines in a Super Duty application is a challenging proposition because the gearbox needs to deliver the substantial low-rpm torque produced by the diesel engine and efficiently use the higher rotational speeds of the gasoline engine. The solution was to use a proven architecture, but adapt it for heavy-duty use.

Lepelletier powerflow: New application of tried-and-true system
Ford’s 6R140 TorqShift transmission uses a Lepelletier-style powerflow, which is a proven technology in rear-wheel-drive vehicles but not typically used with larger diesel engines. A key benefit of the Lepelletier architecture is that it reduces the complexity in connecting the gearsets and clutches. The six speeds require only five clutches, and the speeds of the clutches relative to one another are low, increasing the efficiency of the system.

To handle the torque of the 6.7-liter Power Stroke V-8 turbocharged diesel, Ford strengthened the system by employing a unique powder-metal carrier in the compound Ravigneaux planetary gearset. The carrier consists of four pressed powder-metal components sinter-brazed together to form a rigid, power-dense structure. This solution ensures robustness and makes the architecture compatible with both the diesel and gasoline engines. A Ford-patented rocker one-way clutch is integrated with the carrier and helps improve 1-2 shift quality through the gearset.

“With this architecture, the new transmission can handle the enormous low-end torque produced by the new diesel engine as well as the high speeds produced by the new gas engine,” Bruck said. “The sinter-brazed gearset enables more torque capacity and greater engine speed capability.”

A deep first gear ratio and two overdrive gears create a wider ratio span. This, combined with available lower axle gear ratios and a control system that automatically selects the most efficient shift schedule, provides an outstanding combination of pulling power and fuel economy.

“Our first gear ratio is a fair amount deeper than our competitors, so customers will get improved off-the-line performance,” Bruck said. “The six ratios we’ve selected provide greater overall span and better overdrive performance, which reduces engine speed in highway conditions and improves fuel economy.

“Because we have six gears, we make smaller steps gear to gear, which helps keep the engine in its sweet spot in terms of performance and efficiency.”

Six-speed gearbox offers best of automatic, manual transmissions
The 6R140’s heavy-duty TorqShift six-speed transmission balances convenience and control by automatically shifting during routine operation and also allowing complete manual control. It features SelectShift Automatic transmission functionality, which includes both Progressive Range Select and manual functions.

With Progressive Range Select, a toggle on the shift lever allows the customer to reduce the range of available gears while in Drive. When the customer “taps” down into Range Select mode, the display shows the available gears and highlights the current gear state. This feature allows the driver to limit use of upper gears when heavily loaded or while towing on grades.

For full manual function, customers also can pull the shift lever into “M” for manual mode and use the same toggle switch to select the gear desired. The display will show the selected gear, and the control system will lock the torque converter and hold that gear for a full manual transmission feel.

Proven Tow Haul Mode: Taken to the next level
The 6R140 transmission also features standard enhanced Tow Haul capability, which provides better control when hauling a heavy load or towing a trailer, especially when going down grades. The improved system uses an array of sophisticated electronic sensors to better predict the driver’s need for a downshift to provide engine braking and enhanced control.

Torque converter provides connected feel and better efficiency
The torque converter of the 6R140 transmission is designed to be accurately controlled and efficient. A closed-piston design provides precise control of the lock-up clutch. Its torque multiplication is matched with the rest of the powertrain for better off-the-line performance, but that’s only the start. Once under way, a long-travel, high-capacity turbine damper allows the torque converter to dampen out the extreme torsional force produced in particular by the new, more powerful diesel engine.

“This damper allows us to lug down to 900 rpm while our competitors lug to around 1,100 rpm,” Bruck said. “This technology allows us to stay locked more, which means the engine can run at a lower rpm and get better fuel economy.”

Live Drive PTO: Power whenever the engine is running
Another example of taking a proven technology and applying it to the Super Duty to improve customer productivity is the availability of segment-exclusive Live Drive PTO (Power Take Off). On 2011 Ford Super Duty diesels with the PTO prep option, the PTO output gear is linked through the torque converter to the engine crankshaft. This allows the transmission to power auxiliary equipment such as snowplows, aerial lifts, cement mixers, tow truck lifts or dump trucks. The power is available any time the engine is running.

Pioneered on agricultural applications, the Live Drive feature is particularly useful when mobile PTO function is required during start-stop operations, such as salt spreading or snow plowing. “A fully functional Live Drive mobile PTO will allow Super Duty customers to take full advantage of the equipment on their trucks,” said Bruck.

Durability testing in the lab and on the road
The 6R140 transmission has undergone extensive durability and reliability testing in Ford’s supercomputers, in the lab and on the road to ensure customer satisfaction. Extensive computer-aided engineering was completed before the hardware phase began for improved efficiency in terms of time and reduced failures.

Once the analysis was complete, physical testing in the laboratory included running the new transmission 24/7 while mated to both engines to help ensure real-world durability.

The transmission was rigorously tested – at unloaded and maximum GCW (Gross Combined Weight) duty cycles – for 250,000 equivalent miles to replicate what the most demanding, harshest Super Duty customer can dish out.

The 6R140 heavy-duty transmission will be built at the Sharonville (Ohio) Transmission Plant.