OK, here they are. I shot 4 angles. On the left is the Shelby in each frame.

In this first shot, you can see the similarities in the valley bracing, and the deep skirt design.



In this second one, you can see the reinforcing ribs on the exterior of the hemi, also it's starter area bracing, and how the caps are sandwiched between the skirts on both blocks. I only have the front cap in the Shelby, but the design is visible. Also you can see the double cross bolts on both. The hemi has bigger studs by 1/16 all the way around. The cross bolts on the Ford are 7/16, the Hemi is 1/2.



In the third one you can see the valley reinforcement, and the head stud layout. The Hemi creams us on the head studs. They are 9/16 vs. our 1/2, and there are 17 of them on each head vs. our 10. Notice there are only 13 showing with 4 empty holes in the top. Those studs are part of the head, and the nut is upside down in the valley. They also both have removable sleeves.



In the last one you can see the main cap arrangement is nearly identical. Surprisingly, the Hemi has aluminum caps, whereas the Ford has billet steel.



As an afterthought I figured I'd add three more pics. They show where the hemi runs away from everybody...the heads. In the first one you can see the massive intake ports. They are all the same, straight in, and right on the valves. Ours are pretty puny by comparison, and are pretty serpentine getting to the valve.



The exhaust ports are horizontal, and are the same size as the Shelby's intake ports.



I shot this one to display the radically different valve-to-port angle. This is how it gets the straight shot on the valve.


As you can see, the Shelby block really is a nice piece. Within the confines of making it a direct replacement for the factory block, they incorporated some great high performance features.

-Scouder

 

They are very nice. If you want to see a straight shot to the valves you should look at the 427 Cammer or Tunnel Port heads. They both came with 2.250 intake valves.

 

Well thanks Scoot for the show and tell pics.. There are alot of smilarity's and yet so different also.. The 17 head studs to keep clamping power to the max..for running those Big **** blowers and keeping them on the block..Also noticed on the KB the extra bracing outside the block too.. I like that idea of cylinder liners...the angle of the valves for less of a short turn radius too.. Those intake ports on that Hemi a freaking Massive..

Moto...I myself wouldnt run a Cammer with a blower and that 6' long chain flying around in there.. I know they have in the past..But they also used to crap in the woods too..and some still do.. But if I ever had the money to build a Cammer..you could bet the farm it would have a Belt drive as we used in the Harleys years ago before they came as standard equipment..

Good Show Brian, Thanks for sharing Bud !

 

It's fair to compare them, and thanks for the nice photos. It is comparing apples & oranges, though. I believe the Hemi is designed for racing, & very high horsepower (4-5,000 hp?) applications. The Shelby is entirely streetable, and probably good for ~1500 horsepower.

 

I got a correction from the other forum. It turns out my memory isn't as good as I thought. The cross bolts on the Shelby are 3/8, not 7/16. Secondly, the Shelby block can be ordered with 9/16 studs, just like the hemi.

-Scouder

 

Well Brian non the less still pretty cool to look at..

Glenn and I were talking about the Aluminum caps on the Hemi....Do they have a sleeve of sorts in the bolt/stud holes ?

 

Fortunately I was setting up the mains last night (new Bryant crank came in), so the caps are on the bench. I'll check em when I go out in a few minutes and post when I come back in later today.

-Scouder

 

OK Russ, I looked at them while I was out in the shop today. No sleeves. The entire cap is aluminum, all anodized except for the mating surfaces. Pretty amazing that they will take the HP they do.

-Scouder

 

Wow Scoot that is impressive..I thought maube at least they'd have time=serts or inserts in the side for the crossbolts...

LOL.. I guess at theat HP lever..the rotating assy is too bust going round and round to even think about leaving the block ot the bottom...

It was very cool for me too see your Hemi apart like that..As i have seen one tore down like that in about 25 years...and how things have change in not only Top fuel but in your case Top Alky...Very Nice..indeed..

 

What bore and stroke are you running? Is there a certain class your limited to etc...? And if your not giving away any secrets can you post a pic of the new crankshaft? Is it billet or? Must be a blast tinkering with this stuff now. Thanks for the pics.

 

Ask and Ye shall receive!

The bore is 4.31 and the stroke is 4.375. By the wildest of coincidences, that works out to 511ci. Seems to be a common theme in my engines lately! It will be fun to go from a normally aspirated/nitrous 511 to a blown alcohol 511.

I will be competing in Top Dragster once I get it all set up. It differs from Top Alcohol in a variety of ways, but the most significant is the TAD is usually about 3ft longer, must use a Lenco style tranny, has more stringent safety equipment requirements, and uses a screw blower instead of a roots style like mine. They run mid 5's, where I will probably run mid 6's.

Here's a pic of the crank. It's a Bryant billet piece. I tried to get a pic that would show the knife edged counterweights.




I also thought you guys might like another comparison. This is one of the Oliver billet steel rods I had in the truck. It is a beefy rod. The other is one of my Brooks B2 aluminum rods. I was pretty amazed by the difference. Notice the little brass colored pin in the rod cap. It sticks out and keeps the rod bearing from spinning. These things use considerably larger tolerances that our street engines. The rods will have a clearance of about .0045, where my Shelby had .0025. This is in part because it will run straight 70w oil with about 125lbs oil pressure at idle!



You nailed it when you said it must be fun to work on this thing. I am learning something new every single day. This is a whole new world.

-Scouder

 

Brian,

Whats the Bore capability and stroke Cap Max on your KB ? Those Brooks Rods are Massive man ! Gotta love that Bryant Crank also..a very nice piece.. I learned something this morning I had often wondered about but never asked.. I knew the tolerences were alot looser in the Big Boy motors..But I never knew they ran a 70wt Oil and carried 125 psi at Idle.. But what is Idle on that ? 2200 to 2500rpm ? and what are the cam specs like..and will you be rinning around a 15 to 16 to 1 CR.. So you'll be running a Standard Roots type blower and the TAD run a High helix Screw type and at what kind of pressure?

LOL, I think I picked your brain for one post..But its very interesting..

 

Russ,

KB says a 4.5 max bore. I'm gonna switch it to a 4.375 the next time I need pistons. With luck, that will be about two years at the rate I will run it. That will make it a 526. Arias says there are more pistons available in that bore size.

I'm not sure what my idle will be, but I'm guessing 1800ish. I want it to be high enough to back the car up at idle.

My cam is on a 114 lsa, and has 326 advertised and .500 lobe lift on the intake, and 328/.475 on the exhaust. I have to measure to find my rocker ratios, but it will be over .800 lift at the valve.

The pistons are Arias, and run 11.5:1. By IHRA rule, in Top Dragster I am limited to a roots 14-71 high helix at 32%. I don't know what my boost will be, but at this altitude I'm guessing 25lb range. The Top Alcohol guys are probably around 50lbs. If I had the coin, I could get a Darren Meyer prepped Kobelco 14-71 that would make huge boost at 32%, but that will have to wait. Even as is, this engine should be making 2000+, and thats good enough for me, at the moment.

-Scouder

 

Russ,

Also, I thought you might like the RPM data. This engine has Fuel heads. Which means they are Nitro heads. In fact this set is an old Jim Dunn set. Because of that, I will make my best HP shifting at about 8500. The TA guys use Alcohol specific head$, and shift them at 9500-10,500.

-Scouder

 

Brian I know your one tough cookie...But I hope you got some new tighty whities for Chrismas.. because that things going to be a E ticket ride for sure.. and just think you thought the truck was fast...you'll be maiking the 1/4 mile quicker than the truck ran the 1/8 th.... YeeeHaaa ...Got ta love it !! Chit I'am jazzed for you Man.. Sounds like one hell of a nice build...