The video was done in conjunction with FTE !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdJIQ0pgxwI

None of the other manufacturers have a vehicle out like this, what do you think of it - will they come out with competitor vehicles?

 

The price isn't actually too bad for the Raptor. I thought it would start around $50k but it starts under $40k and its well equipped in base form. Pretty cool truck IMO and more practical than the Lightning. I can see maybe Toyota and some of companies offering a more robust offroad package for their current trucks. BTW cool vid. Sounds like Ford finally put out a truck with some rumble to it.

 

The Dodge Power wagon was a vehicle of this type designed with offroading in mind. If they still offer it.

 

Neat truck. If Ford had been offering that in 2007 with a four door cab I might be rocking one of those instead of my Tundra.

 

I think it's a sweet truck, and not a bad price tag either. Toyota might have something for the Raptor but IMO the new Yotas are butt-ugly. I don't think GM or Dodge has anything comparable in a 1/2 ton pickup. The Power Wagon is a sweet rig but more in a class of it's own. I seem to recall reading in an issue of Petersen's 4WOR Ford offers a "Hoss Truck" package for the Super Duty: 35" BFG MTs, 4.30 gears, electronic selectable lockers front and rear, heavy plate steel bumpers, Front mounted Warn winch, and rocker panel protection... there were a few other details but I cannot remember them all.

 

My Tundra is not the best looking truck on the road, but I didn't buy it for looks. I bought it because I needed a 1/2 ton truck and Toyota was offering the most truck for my money in 2007.

As far as a competing truck from Toyota vs. the Raptor I don't see it happening. Not that Toyota doesn't have the resources or the engineering know how. Fact is the market is so limited for such a specialized truck that it will probably not be worth it for Toyota to make something like it in this economy.

 

The 2010 Power Wagon is also more of a 3/4 ton truck and doesn't offer the extreme customization and off-road ability the Raptor does. Other than the 4.56 locking front & rear diffs, and sway bar disconnect, the Raptor has all the advantage. Especially once they drop the 6.2L in it this Fall.

Interesting point of view, since other than the motor/trans/gears, when buying my 150, I found the Tundra to be lacking in all other aspects. The 150 had a reliability behind it as well, compared to an all new design with unknown issues. Which we now know, has had an abundance of issues. So I guess "most truck for the money" is in the ey of the beholder.

 

So far my 2007 has had zero issues with any part of the truck.

I test drove the F-150 for comparison and was not impressed with the interior features, the build quality, or anything else. It was badly in need of a redesign by 2007. The fact that it was an absolutely gutless dog put it solidly at the bottom of my consideration. The 4.6L V8 might as well not even exist, and the 5.4L was/is pathetic. Given all the stories of spark plug problems with that motor I am not sad to have bought something else. I also was not impressed with the 4 speed auto in the F-150, it was not only slow to react to driver input but it was not especially smooth, now was it very well geared.

Now the new F-150 is a different story from the standpoint of features and amenities, but it is still stuck with a gutless lineup of available engines. At least they offer a 6 speed tranny now. How much longer will it take them to put a real motor in it though?

 

Glad to hear you've had no issues to report so far, I am the same way with my F150. Like here on FTE, I visit a few Tundra forums for comparison, and the '07/'08 MY's have displayed a huge number of issues.

Interesting view, as when comparing the interior fit/finish, materials and overall build quality, I found these to be huge negatives for the Gen II Tundra compared to the F150 and the Gen I Tundra.

The F150 was only in its 4th year of this design and was still the #1 seller, so I don't know how you think it was badly in need of a redesign, unless you want a new redesign every 3yrs, which financially isn't possible.

I agree the 5.4L & 4.6L don't compare in the hp/lb-ft dept to the 5.7L, but that was a brand new design. Lets wait and see how the 5.7L competes to the 6.2L/6spd combo when she is released. It is to be dropped in the Raptor this fall, but no confirmation if/when it'll be dropped into other F150 models. Also, the Bobcat (5.0L) is to be released for the '11 MY, so we may see it in the F150 by mid next year.

I'll deal with a changing my spark plugs early versus the driveshaft, torque convertor, tailgate, bed bounce, rust and various electrical issues the '07/'08 Tundras have been displaying all over the Tundra boards. Even the head of Toyota has admitted the Tundra is an extreme disappointment in the quality/reliability dept.

Don't get me wrong, the drivetrain in the Tundra is awesome, but everything else is 2nd rate in my opinion. Even my mother in laws neighbor is dissappointed in his '07 CrewMax. He is all about the power, but after his issues with this Tundra, he's stated he wishes he hadn't traded his '04 Ram QC. And we all know how bad Dodge's quality/reliability was for the '04 MY. But as long as you're happy, that's all that matters.

 

The raptor is only better off road in certain situations. What exact advantage does it Have? It is better for desert racing stuff period. The suspension is not better suited to the types of eastern offroading with IFS front end and a weak motor.

 

I have also read about the complaints in regards to the 07 and 08 model year Tundras, but I have not experienced any issues. Unfortunately like any internet forum, including this one, people with problems congregate to bitch or try to figure out fixes. So going by what you see online is not always a great representation of the truth.

The only issue I thought I has was the bed bounce issue on some stretches of pavement, but riding in a friend's truck (GMC) proved that to not be a unique issue with the Tundra over that stretch of road. The road just sucks. Like most any other truck the Tundra rides 100% better with a load on. As for the rust issues, if you live in a state that salts the crap out of the roads, you will get rust. Never had a vehicle that didn't rust on the under carriage. The Tundra has a little bit of rust starting where rocks have chipped away at the suspension/springs/rear axle. About what I would expect. No issues at all with the dirveshaft, but I do have a bitch with the owners manual showing 8 grease fittings when there are only 5. At least once you figure out that the 3 missing ones just don't exist, the other 5 are pretty easy to access. No electrical issues at all, unless you want to count my satellite radio becoming disoriented every once in a while in the hills when the signal is blocked.

I am not completely sold on the tailgate though, I dislike the access plate on the inside of the gate as it seems less sturdy than I would like. I also managed to dent the inside sheet metal letting my fat *** 275lb buddy ride his broke *** 750lb Hardley Ableson into the bed using the gate as a bridge off of a retaining wall. Not sure if the gate is to blame or just bad judgement on my part. Either way no harm no foul, it's just a small dent and doesn't affect anything. Maybe I'll try to convince Toyota to replace it with the updated version.

All that said I have been really pleased with the truck. It gets good fuel economy for what it is (I average 17-18mpg on the highway), and as you might expect engine performance is very strong. Hopefully it will continue to be trouble free but if it proves not to be I have quite a bit of confidence in Toyota and my dealer to put things right. For the most part those issues I have heard about have been handled pretty swiftly by Toyota. No mechanical object is perfect or imune to defects in materials or workmanship, so buying from a company that will fix things right is very important. I've had mixed luck with Ford in the past on fixing things correctly, but that has been a quite a few years ago. Seems like they are trying to change. Hope they do, since they make a good looking truck.

 

Having lived in PHX and run sone desert type off-roading, of course the Raptor will have the advantage here. But being I've lived the majority of my life here in CO, the Raptors lighter weight, shorter wheelbase and custom suspension with greater articulation will provide much better off-roading ability (trails & rock crawling) than the PowerWagon. And sure the 5.4L may be underpowered compared to the competition, but if you know much about rock crawling, the motor power isn't of huge concern. Why do you think CJ's never came stock with a V8? But if you need power, wait for the 6.2L.

 

IFS doesn't articulate FYI, and CJ's did come with a V8 stock, i had one look it up. I have been into the 4 wheeling game for a very long time, realisticly neither truck if really suited to do what I consider 4 wheeling.

The raptor has 7" inches less wheel base than the dodge, i'll give you that. engine power is very much a concern when you only have 4:10 ratio in the axles, and you are off roading with that much weight, and to that the the new 6.2 isn't even available

 

Oh yeah! 304 V8 and a sweet motor in that vehicle. Buddy of mine had three of them. IIRC, the last year for the 304 was 1980 and after that it was the inline 4 or 6. But the V8 Jeeps were sweet rides.

 

I too have been 4 wheeling for many years, from International Scouts, CJs, 60's era Broncos (best of the bunch if you ask me), Tacomas, Rangers and Wranglers, since I got out of a car seat. These experiences come in the CO & UT Rocky Mountains, with a little experience in the PHX desert. True neither the Raptor nor PowerWagon are true rock crawling type 4-wheelers, but when compared, the Raptor has the upperhand in most aspects regarding the rock crawl.

6.2L will be available this Fall. And the '10 PowerWagon won't be out by then, so why would the 6.2L not being out right now be of concern then?

4.10 is plenty of gearing, especially with the 6.2L and the 6spd deep 4.17 first gear. Most CJ's had 2.73 or 3.54, with a limited # having the 4.10 and only a 3spd tranny. Sure many were upgraded with aftermarket parts, but so could the Raptor and PowerWagon if wanted. I am wrong, the CJs did offer the AMC 304cid for roughly 10yrs. These weren't the big sellers from what I can find and started with a respectible 250hp, but dropped to 150hp over the years. Still proves my point that big hp numbers aren't the biggest issue when rock crawling.

No articulation in the Raptor?

"At points where there were deep ruts on one side of the truck, we were able to use the Raptor’s excellent articulation to keep all four wheels in contact with the ground in most conditions."
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/08...vt-raptor.html

"A track widened seven inches over a normal F-150, with reinforced underpinnings suspended by unique front coil springs and rear leaf springs, are what give the Raptor its impressive front/rear suspension articulation of 11.2 and 12.1 inches, respectively."
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t_drive_review

Now in the aftermarket rock crawling scene, those numbers aren't eye popping, but the PowerWagon doesn't have nearly that much suspension travel from all reports I've read and is almost unheard of form any stock vehicle.