Diesel Exhaust Fluid Alternative
#31
01-04-2010, 06:01 PM
#32
01-04-2010, 07:15 PM
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Weird Deal
First off, I'm a Ford lover and not so much Toyota. I think as a group, Toyota is way overrated and I always stimulate conversation on the subject. BUT, this particular accident is strange to me (assuming we're talking about the same incident), where a man was driving his family, ran a stop sign and ended-up upside down in a ditch and he, his wife and (2) kids perished.
Sad deal to say the least. But my cynical side has several questions for which I have not seen or heard of any logical answers. Let's recap, he was a police officer, presumably with some driving lesson/training, he had time to call 911 and carry a conversation with the dispatcher for several seconds (enough time to tell her where he was, gas was stuck, etc), all the while his car was accelerating out of control. Yet he (or anybody in the car), never thought of putting the tranny in neutral, flooring the emergency brake, cutting the car off.....etc, etc! As an experiment, next time you can safely do this, floor your accelerator, give it a few seconds to really pick-up speed, keep your right foot on the gas and jam the regular brake (not emergency) with your left foot, while always keeping the gas pedal floored.
You'll come to a nice smooth stop every time if your brakes are in proper working order.
Yet this guy drove to his death..........kinda weird to me.
Back on point with your regularly scheduled DEF program.
Sad deal to say the least. But my cynical side has several questions for which I have not seen or heard of any logical answers. Let's recap, he was a police officer, presumably with some driving lesson/training, he had time to call 911 and carry a conversation with the dispatcher for several seconds (enough time to tell her where he was, gas was stuck, etc), all the while his car was accelerating out of control. Yet he (or anybody in the car), never thought of putting the tranny in neutral, flooring the emergency brake, cutting the car off.....etc, etc! As an experiment, next time you can safely do this, floor your accelerator, give it a few seconds to really pick-up speed, keep your right foot on the gas and jam the regular brake (not emergency) with your left foot, while always keeping the gas pedal floored.
You'll come to a nice smooth stop every time if your brakes are in proper working order.
Yet this guy drove to his death..........kinda weird to me.
Back on point with your regularly scheduled DEF program.
#33
01-04-2010, 09:13 PM
First off, I'm a Ford lover and not so much Toyota. I think as a group, Toyota is way overrated and I always stimulate conversation on the subject. BUT, this particular accident is strange to me (assuming we're talking about the same incident), where a man was driving his family, ran a stop sign and ended-up upside down in a ditch and he, his wife and (2) kids perished.
Sad deal to say the least. But my cynical side has several questions for which I have not seen or heard of any logical answers. Let's recap, he was a police officer, presumably with some driving lesson/training, he had time to call 911 and carry a conversation with the dispatcher for several seconds (enough time to tell her where he was, gas was stuck, etc), all the while his car was accelerating out of control. Yet he (or anybody in the car), never thought of putting the tranny in neutral, flooring the emergency brake, cutting the car off.....etc, etc! As an experiment, next time you can safely do this, floor your accelerator, give it a few seconds to really pick-up speed, keep your right foot on the gas and jam the regular brake (not emergency) with your left foot, while always keeping the gas pedal floored.
You'll come to a nice smooth stop every time if your brakes are in proper working order.
Yet this guy drove to his death..........kinda weird to me.
Back on point with your regularly scheduled DEF program.
Sad deal to say the least. But my cynical side has several questions for which I have not seen or heard of any logical answers. Let's recap, he was a police officer, presumably with some driving lesson/training, he had time to call 911 and carry a conversation with the dispatcher for several seconds (enough time to tell her where he was, gas was stuck, etc), all the while his car was accelerating out of control. Yet he (or anybody in the car), never thought of putting the tranny in neutral, flooring the emergency brake, cutting the car off.....etc, etc! As an experiment, next time you can safely do this, floor your accelerator, give it a few seconds to really pick-up speed, keep your right foot on the gas and jam the regular brake (not emergency) with your left foot, while always keeping the gas pedal floored.
You'll come to a nice smooth stop every time if your brakes are in proper working order.
Yet this guy drove to his death..........kinda weird to me.
Back on point with your regularly scheduled DEF program.
The facts are as follows:
1. There is no way to shut off the engine unless you knew the secret trick of holding down the "START" button for 3 consecutive seconds.
The vehicle do not use a conventional ignition key, but a RFID chip and a button that tells the computer to start and stop the engine
Once the vehicle is moving, computer rejects STOP commands.
2. There is no way to shift transmission to neutral.
The shift lever is a switch that tells the computer to shift the transmission.
Computer will not allow override if vehicle is moving.'
3. Brakes
Witnesses said the brakes were apparently used, the rear tires were on fire from being dragged with brakes locked just before it crashed,
The power brake would have been weakened because at full throttle, there is not much vacuum
Regardless, the driver (state trooper) was probably standing on the brakes with all his strength.
Toyota disabled 4 of the most common sense interlocks and safety features on most cars with their electronic fly by wire throttle and transmission shift and electronic engine start stop keyless ignition.
Once the car got into run away mode, which is most likely NOT because of floor mats, but a computer command error, there was no way to stop the car until it crashed.
These facts are well documented by the LA Times. Read it.
#34
01-05-2010, 07:43 AM
On our "drive by wire" Toyota you can easily shift into neutral anytime you are moving forward.
In fact it goes into neutral if you do any of the following while vehicle is moving forward:
1. move shift lever to neutral.
2. move shift lever to reverse.
3. push park button.
#35
01-05-2010, 08:54 AM
On our "drive by wire" Toyota you can easily shift into neutral anytime you are moving forward.
In fact it goes into neutral if you do any of the following while vehicle is moving forward:
1. move shift lever to neutral.
2. move shift lever to reverse.
3. push park button.
In fact it goes into neutral if you do any of the following while vehicle is moving forward:
1. move shift lever to neutral.
2. move shift lever to reverse.
3. push park button.
Materially false information.
You are commanding a computer to shift.
You do not know under what circumstances the computer will cease to execute the command or refuse it regardless of its intended or designed goal of shifting into neutral as you claims.
There is no mechanical connection operated by the driver directly to the transmission and the throttle in the Prius or in the Toyotas subject to the unintended acceleration problem that killed a family of 4.
Period.
So there is no way to shift it into neutral when the computer malfunctions.... as it did when it killed people.
Are you in the business of helping Toyota cover up their safety defects?
#36
01-05-2010, 09:34 AM
Materially false information.
You are commanding a computer to shift.
You do not know under what circumstances the computer will cease to execute the command or refuse it regardless of its intended or designed goal of shifting into neutral as you claims.
There is no mechanical connection operated by the driver directly to the transmission and the throttle in the Prius or in the Toyotas subject to the unintended acceleration problem that killed a family of 4.
Period.
So there is no way to shift it into neutral when the computer malfunctions.... as it did when it killed people.
Are you in the business of helping Toyota cover up their safety defects?
You are commanding a computer to shift.
You do not know under what circumstances the computer will cease to execute the command or refuse it regardless of its intended or designed goal of shifting into neutral as you claims.
There is no mechanical connection operated by the driver directly to the transmission and the throttle in the Prius or in the Toyotas subject to the unintended acceleration problem that killed a family of 4.
Period.
So there is no way to shift it into neutral when the computer malfunctions.... as it did when it killed people.
Are you in the business of helping Toyota cover up their safety defects?
What I stated is 100% correct. Period!!
There is also no direct mechanical connection operated by the driver directly to the transmission and the throttle in thoasands of other vehicles on the road.
#37
01-05-2010, 10:12 AM
Except for Toyota, the electronic controls on FORDs, GM, VW, BMW, Mercedes, etc. DO NOT KILL PEOPLE with unintended acceleration at full throttle with no way to stop the car.
TOYOTA is alone in having a system that have killed people with their cars, and they are still in denial.
Blame it on drivers.
Blame it on floormats.
Blame it on gas pedal design.
But their ergonomics and software is flawless.
And Toyota lovers go on Ford forums to defend Toyota!!!!!
See what some honest journalists at the LA Times turned up:
Toyota should examine electronic throttles for sudden-acceleration problems - latimes.com
As The Times' Ken Bensinger and Ralph Vartabedian have reported, Weiss says he had stopped his 2008 Tacoma pickup at an intersection in Long Beach in October when the truck, on its own, suddenly accelerated toward oncoming traffic. He was able to avoid a collision by clamping on the brakes and turning off the engine, but the incident left him reluctant to get behind the Tacoma's wheel again. And Weiss says the mats weren't the problem -- he'd removed them months ago on his dealer's advice. His experience, combined with similar complaints by other Toyota owners and additional pieces of evidence, points to a potential electronic problem, not a mechanical one.
Weiss was fortunate that his truck didn't have a keyless ignition system like those in many Lexus and Prius models. To turn off one of those engines while moving, drivers must press the "on" button for three seconds -- a task that's neither intuitive nor easy in a runaway vehicle.
Toyota insists that there are no problems with its "drive by wire" electronic throttles, a standard feature in all of its current cars and trucks. The technology's supplier tested it for sudden acceleration problems three years ago at the request of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, and it received a clean bill of health. In response to a complaint this year, the NHTSA again blamed the floor mats.
Weiss was fortunate that his truck didn't have a keyless ignition system like those in many Lexus and Prius models. To turn off one of those engines while moving, drivers must press the "on" button for three seconds -- a task that's neither intuitive nor easy in a runaway vehicle.
Toyota insists that there are no problems with its "drive by wire" electronic throttles, a standard feature in all of its current cars and trucks. The technology's supplier tested it for sudden acceleration problems three years ago at the request of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, and it received a clean bill of health. In response to a complaint this year, the NHTSA again blamed the floor mats.
Go and drive your Toyota!
#38
01-05-2010, 01:22 PM
#39
01-05-2010, 03:07 PM
Study: Toyota received most complaints about sudden acceleration - latimes.com
Study: Toyota received most complaints about sudden acceleration
Toyota was the target of 41% of all consumer complaints about the problem in 2008 cars, according to Consumer Reports. Ford received 28% of complaints.
By Ken Bensinger and Ralph Vartabedian
December 8, 2009
Toyota Motor Corp. registered far more complaints about sudden acceleration in its 2008 model-year vehicles than any other automaker, a new study has found.
Toyota and Lexus vehicles received 41% of all consumer complaints to a federal database about runaway acceleration, more than Chrysler, General Motors, Honda and Nissan combined, analysis by Consumer Reports found. Ford was a distant second with 28% of complaints.
Toyota received 52 complaints, Consumer Reports said.
The analysis of acceleration complaints logged by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration covered only the 2008 model year. Nonetheless, said Jeff Bartlett, deputy online automotive editor at Consumer Reports, "it says this is a very real problem."
Toyota's share of the U.S. market in 2007 and 2008, when 2008 model-year cars were sold, was roughly 16%.
Toyota spokesman John Hanson said the automaker could not comment until it had studied the report.
Toyota has been the subject of increasing scrutiny over sudden acceleration in the wake of an August accident involving an out-of-control Lexus ES in San Diego County that took four lives including that of an off-duty California Highway Patrol officer.
Toyota was the target of 41% of all consumer complaints about the problem in 2008 cars, according to Consumer Reports. Ford received 28% of complaints.
By Ken Bensinger and Ralph Vartabedian
December 8, 2009
Toyota Motor Corp. registered far more complaints about sudden acceleration in its 2008 model-year vehicles than any other automaker, a new study has found.
Toyota and Lexus vehicles received 41% of all consumer complaints to a federal database about runaway acceleration, more than Chrysler, General Motors, Honda and Nissan combined, analysis by Consumer Reports found. Ford was a distant second with 28% of complaints.
Toyota received 52 complaints, Consumer Reports said.
The analysis of acceleration complaints logged by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration covered only the 2008 model year. Nonetheless, said Jeff Bartlett, deputy online automotive editor at Consumer Reports, "it says this is a very real problem."
Toyota's share of the U.S. market in 2007 and 2008, when 2008 model-year cars were sold, was roughly 16%.
Toyota spokesman John Hanson said the automaker could not comment until it had studied the report.
Toyota has been the subject of increasing scrutiny over sudden acceleration in the wake of an August accident involving an out-of-control Lexus ES in San Diego County that took four lives including that of an off-duty California Highway Patrol officer.
#40
01-05-2010, 04:13 PM
#41
01-05-2010, 07:15 PM
Anybody want a burned up Triton??: Triton Boats: BBC Boards
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Sorry but, you're being both a troll and a shill. You keep posting the same stuff over and over again, from the same source, without actually saying anything more. You probably plan to keep posting the same "family of four" killed over and over until everyone else arguing just gives up.
This is Ford Truck Enthusiasts, not Ford Truck Shills.
#42
01-05-2010, 07:24 PM
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