Symptoms of a bad EVP (EGR Valve Position sensor)
#16
12-29-2009, 09:47 PM
Unplug the battery for a minute or two to clear the codes. 5.17v is close enough to 5v.
The EGR system not working is not going to give you the problems your experiencing. The only thing the EGR can cause is stalling at idle, and possibly some engine pinging on a hard pull. If you want to temp take it out of the picture, unplug the vacuum line to it and see what happens.(you will definitely get a code then).
If you are only getting a code 11 reading the codes with the engine off, I would look at fuel pressure and timing.
The EGR system not working is not going to give you the problems your experiencing. The only thing the EGR can cause is stalling at idle, and possibly some engine pinging on a hard pull. If you want to temp take it out of the picture, unplug the vacuum line to it and see what happens.(you will definitely get a code then).
If you are only getting a code 11 reading the codes with the engine off, I would look at fuel pressure and timing.
#17
12-30-2009, 10:42 PM
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Unplug the battery for a minute or two to clear the codes. 5.17v is close enough to 5v.
The EGR system not working is not going to give you the problems your experiencing. The only thing the EGR can cause is stalling at idle, and possibly some engine pinging on a hard pull. If you want to temp take it out of the picture, unplug the vacuum line to it and see what happens.(you will definitely get a code then).
If you are only getting a code 11 reading the codes with the engine off, I would look at fuel pressure and timing.
The EGR system not working is not going to give you the problems your experiencing. The only thing the EGR can cause is stalling at idle, and possibly some engine pinging on a hard pull. If you want to temp take it out of the picture, unplug the vacuum line to it and see what happens.(you will definitely get a code then).
If you are only getting a code 11 reading the codes with the engine off, I would look at fuel pressure and timing.
I took your advice & disconected the battery pulled the computer connector & checked the pins on the connector side, I'm able to gently pull on the wires & the pins move just a tiny bit which I think is OK, also I was testing the EVP Sensor connector & when I pulled the connector one of the pins pulled right out with it so I replaced the new EVP Sensor again (Free) but when I connected everything back up again all I got was CODE 31 which is "PFE or EVP circuit has intermittently failed below minimum voltage of 0.24 volts."
It's funny cause I drove it today in the rain & it did not act up at all maybe I should move to a place that has more moisture in the air that could solve my problem....
By the way, do you know how I can test the EGR Vacuum Control solenoid & THE EGR Vent solenoid? They are mounted together on the passenger side fender near the battery
Thanks again
#18
12-31-2009, 11:03 AM
Get the engine warmed up and then pull the vacuum line off the egr and hold your finger over the line while you rev the engine. You should feel vacuum on the egr line when you rev it, and then it should go away at idle. This is the egr vacuum solenoid letting vacuum through, and the other solenoid releasing the vacuum, so it would be working.
The computer activates the egr vacuum solenoid, and then it looks at the egr sensor to see how much it opened. It does this back and forth, and that how it modulates the amount of egr to the engine.
The computer activates the egr vacuum solenoid, and then it looks at the egr sensor to see how much it opened. It does this back and forth, and that how it modulates the amount of egr to the engine.
#19
01-01-2010, 05:48 PM
#20
01-02-2010, 08:42 AM
Cargo Master
Thanks for your quick response Franklin2...
I'm at my wits end, I CAN NOT find this annoying hessitation/surging problem I've been trying to diagnose I just changed the EVP Sensor today with no change nearly all of my sensors are new minus the knock sensor...
Vacuum is at a steady 16 hg., I can duplicate the problem if I idle it in park for 20 minutes with the high beams on, & the blower fan on high... My mechanic friend seems to think it's the main wire harness, becuase when the weather is cold it does'nt give me allot of problems, but at over $500.00 for the harness it's a big gamble....
We all seem to have the same problems TPS, EGR, O2 Sensor, Etc. but what ever I do DOES'NT solves the problem...
Any thoughts?
Thanks again
I'm at my wits end, I CAN NOT find this annoying hessitation/surging problem I've been trying to diagnose I just changed the EVP Sensor today with no change nearly all of my sensors are new minus the knock sensor...
Vacuum is at a steady 16 hg., I can duplicate the problem if I idle it in park for 20 minutes with the high beams on, & the blower fan on high... My mechanic friend seems to think it's the main wire harness, becuase when the weather is cold it does'nt give me allot of problems, but at over $500.00 for the harness it's a big gamble....
We all seem to have the same problems TPS, EGR, O2 Sensor, Etc. but what ever I do DOES'NT solves the problem...
Any thoughts?
Thanks again
Sounds like a bad ground problem. Had amost same problem with my 84 after I put on EFI! These ECU's are picky with grounding and will cause all kinds of wierd problems. WIth high beams on and blower full speed, there's alot of current flowing and that can cause a ground point to heat up and then fun begins!
#21
01-02-2010, 08:59 PM
Sounds like a bad ground problem. Had amost same problem with my 84 after I put on EFI! These ECU's are picky with grounding and will cause all kinds of wierd problems. WIth high beams on and blower full speed, there's alot of current flowing and that can cause a ground point to heat up and then fun begins!
#22
01-02-2010, 09:36 PM
It actually has 5 grounds....black wire at pin 16 is the ignition ground, black wire off pin 20 is the case ground, black/light green wire off pin 40 is a power ground, orange wire off pin 49 is the O2 sensor ground, and the black/light green wire off pin 60 is a power ground. Any of them being bad will cause the problems you've described. I don't recall which setup you have, but if its an EFI 302, the orange wire off pin 49 is connected to a stud on the rear intake bolt on the drivers side....it's very easy to miss that wire being broken. It's really best to wire all 5 of those ground wires directly to the negative battery terminal.
#23
01-02-2010, 10:16 PM
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Sounds like a bad ground problem. Had amost same problem with my 84 after I put on EFI! These ECU's are picky with grounding and will cause all kinds of wierd problems. WIth high beams on and blower full speed, there's alot of current flowing and that can cause a ground point to heat up and then fun begins!
I will check it out again, I've been suspecting that I have a grounding issues & are having a difficult time finding which of the ground wires to check...
Can you tell where exactly I should start?
I allready checked the ground wire going from the ECU to the body of the van, right next to the ECU...Tighten the battery ground cable going to the body in the engine compartment...
Today I disconected the wires that were going to my door switch that the alarm guys hacked into (DON'T EVER INSTALL AN ALARM ON CARS WITH ECMS)
I will keep looking
Thanks again
#24
01-02-2010, 10:21 PM
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Even though I checked my vacuum & have a steady 17 Inches HG?
#25
01-02-2010, 10:23 PM
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#26
01-02-2010, 10:29 PM
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It actually has 5 grounds....black wire at pin 16 is the ignition ground, black wire off pin 20 is the case ground, black/light green wire off pin 40 is a power ground, orange wire off pin 49 is the O2 sensor ground, and the black/light green wire off pin 60 is a power ground. Any of them being bad will cause the problems you've described. I don't recall which setup you have, but if its an EFI 302, the orange wire off pin 49 is connected to a stud on the rear intake bolt on the drivers side....it's very easy to miss that wire being broken. It's really best to wire all 5 of those ground wires directly to the negative battery terminal.
That is the info I just looking for...I will check & let you all know the results
Thanks
#27
01-03-2010, 09:02 AM
Cargo Master
#28
01-05-2010, 03:44 AM
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I know how to test it, it's pretty easy, but you have to have a lab scope >shrug<
If you have a really fast switching multimeter, you could probably use that in it's place.
You hook the scope (or multi-meter) up to the output from the PIP. As the motor (or distributor, if bench tested) is turned, the PIP should output a square waveform, between 12 and 0 volts. A meter would be able to give you a rough idea, if you saw it change between 12 and 0 over and over again. Usually when a CKP (PIP here) dies, it stops sending a signal all-together, so the meter idea would be somewhat helpfull.
If your PIP is behind the harmonic balancer, make sure the teeth on the ring are all clean, and check that the sensor itself isn't too far away from the ring's teeth. I can find you the spec tomorow, if you need it, but it's pretty close.
Oh, and also if you have the one behind the balancer, check the wiring harness. They can come loose from the mounts, and rub on your belts or pulleys.
I'm really bad at "remote diagnosing" things, but I will gladly help you as much as I can
It's far more fun to work on a Ford (even remotely) than it is to work on Audi's all day!
If you have a really fast switching multimeter, you could probably use that in it's place.
You hook the scope (or multi-meter) up to the output from the PIP. As the motor (or distributor, if bench tested) is turned, the PIP should output a square waveform, between 12 and 0 volts. A meter would be able to give you a rough idea, if you saw it change between 12 and 0 over and over again. Usually when a CKP (PIP here) dies, it stops sending a signal all-together, so the meter idea would be somewhat helpfull.
If your PIP is behind the harmonic balancer, make sure the teeth on the ring are all clean, and check that the sensor itself isn't too far away from the ring's teeth. I can find you the spec tomorow, if you need it, but it's pretty close.
Oh, and also if you have the one behind the balancer, check the wiring harness. They can come loose from the mounts, and rub on your belts or pulleys.
I'm really bad at "remote diagnosing" things, but I will gladly help you as much as I can
It's far more fun to work on a Ford (even remotely) than it is to work on Audi's all day!In all the komotion with my problematic HEAP I forgot to thank you for your input so, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU....
I'll try to do what you suggested & let you all know what I found.
I was able to pull old codes & one of them was CODE 74 "Brake On/Off switch not actuated during KOER test (user error)" & I just noticed today that when I engage the hand brake my brake idiot light does'nt come on...I don't know if it's part of my ongoing surging problem (you know sometimes you get small hints from the automobile that could be relevent to the problem) but I'll look into that too!!!
What a van.... now she wants me to do the "wiggle test"... Ford should change the letters inside the blue oval to say "PMS" although I do love the new Mustangs...
Thanks
#29
02-12-2010, 03:26 PM
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thanks for your reply,
I am reading my old posts trying to still find out where my problem is...I tested my vacuum & I have 15 in.
If have a leak than the gauge would go up & down, right?
Is there another way to test for intake leaks?
#30
02-12-2010, 08:10 PM
I don't know if you have you have a leak or not or if this will fix you problem, it sounds like a good one. But it can be hard to know if you have a leak or not with some efi's because there are more gaskets and more vacuume lines than say a carbed motor. After all the time and effort to diagnose a nagging symptom its sometime takes less time and effort to change the gaskets in order to eliminate it as a problem. It also gets your head in there to see any other potential problems. Hope this helps.
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