One tire blows out and tire shop wants to change all four!!!
#16
There is no room to work on anything that you need to get to in that engine bay.
My wife's XJ wound up with a cracked block, which I thought was an external hg leak. Pulled the head, and that's where the fun started. No locating dowels, and you have to remove/replace the right rear head bolt with the head, there isn't enough room to get that bolt in and out with the head in. So, you have to make a couple short bolts with a screwdriver slot in the top to use as guides, that you can't make too tall or you can't get the head on over them, so you have to fish them out with a magnet and you have to wrap a zip-tie around that rear bolt to install it along with the head.
Oh, then you have very carefully fish this heavy long head in under the cowl, over the studs, be very careful not to touch that head gasket until you're in place, and hopefully one of the half million wires and vacuum tubes doesn't get between the head and block. Manifold bolts are virtually impossible to get to, and in general the whole job was a royal pain. The PCV system is a random jumbled mess of hoses that seem to have been made of a material that was not compatible with crankcase vapors.
Also, AMC should never have been in charge of wiring anything, ever.
My wife's XJ wound up with a cracked block, which I thought was an external hg leak. Pulled the head, and that's where the fun started. No locating dowels, and you have to remove/replace the right rear head bolt with the head, there isn't enough room to get that bolt in and out with the head in. So, you have to make a couple short bolts with a screwdriver slot in the top to use as guides, that you can't make too tall or you can't get the head on over them, so you have to fish them out with a magnet and you have to wrap a zip-tie around that rear bolt to install it along with the head.
Oh, then you have very carefully fish this heavy long head in under the cowl, over the studs, be very careful not to touch that head gasket until you're in place, and hopefully one of the half million wires and vacuum tubes doesn't get between the head and block. Manifold bolts are virtually impossible to get to, and in general the whole job was a royal pain. The PCV system is a random jumbled mess of hoses that seem to have been made of a material that was not compatible with crankcase vapors.
Also, AMC should never have been in charge of wiring anything, ever.
#17
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I just recently put tires on my Expy and the tire manager and I were talking away. According his corporate people, the reasoning behind placing the new tires on the rear of a front driver is the rear of the car has very little drive control. The newer tires are supposed to help prevent the back end from fishtailing and coming around.
I'm not so sure I agree with them 100%.
I was considering an AWD Edge as my replacement for the Expy in the future, not anymore.
Tim
I just recently put tires on my Expy and the tire manager and I were talking away. According his corporate people, the reasoning behind placing the new tires on the rear of a front driver is the rear of the car has very little drive control. The newer tires are supposed to help prevent the back end from fishtailing and coming around.
I'm not so sure I agree with them 100%.
I was considering an AWD Edge as my replacement for the Expy in the future, not anymore.
Tim
As for AWD, I think the tire fellers went a little overboard with the OP's situation, as with under 10K miles, unless they were the soft 20k summer performance jobs, there should not have been enough wear to make a difference....
Merry Christmas to all.
#18
> I ever want to buy a newer model AWD vehicle of any kind...
I think one of the best and most tolerant AWD systems was found on the Aerostar. Excellent in snow, predicable handling for the most part in all weather, and coupled with the rear L/S and how balanced the ext. length vehicle was, it was excellent. imho. Only problem was if you broke a front axle, but, that was easy enough to overcome.
> AMC should never have been in charge of wiring anything, ever.
GM and later Ford too, made wiring harnesses for AMC/JEEP. So, they probably we not in charge
I think one of the best and most tolerant AWD systems was found on the Aerostar. Excellent in snow, predicable handling for the most part in all weather, and coupled with the rear L/S and how balanced the ext. length vehicle was, it was excellent. imho. Only problem was if you broke a front axle, but, that was easy enough to overcome.
> AMC should never have been in charge of wiring anything, ever.
GM and later Ford too, made wiring harnesses for AMC/JEEP. So, they probably we not in charge
#19
All 4x's need matching tire diameter all the way around period, to prevent driveline strain and premature wear and tear on drivetrain components.
I can't belive that with only 10,000 miles you needed even 2 tires unless they didn't have the same brand as different brands will have different diameters, Your spare will always be a different diameter but is safe to drive in to get it a tire repaired.
I can't belive that with only 10,000 miles you needed even 2 tires unless they didn't have the same brand as different brands will have different diameters, Your spare will always be a different diameter but is safe to drive in to get it a tire repaired.
#20
If you must run two new and two used, the new ones go on the back, regardless of fwd or rwd. Think about it--you want the front end to let go first, or the back? ALWAYS go for understeer on the street. The back end goes first, and you are ditch/guardrail/mortuary bound....
Jason
#21
You prefer oversteer as long as you can induce and control it, like many drivers, myself included. Even with ABS, you can have the back come around without warning if you have poor rubber out back.
If you want to run the new ones up front, fine, but just make sure the ones out back are good, not marginal.
If you want to run the new ones up front, fine, but just make sure the ones out back are good, not marginal.
#22
#24
That must be why EVERY manufacturer dials understeer into their vehicles.
Understeer: The front wheels slide first
Oversteer: The back wheels slide first
Or as they say in NASCAR:
Understeer: The front of the car hits the wall first.
Oversteer: The back of the car hits the wall first.
With understeer, you get off the gas, hit the brakes, and if you are lucky, you scrub off enough speed to regain traction and you go on your way.
With oversteer, you are backwards off the road, into the wall etc. Now jroehl says:
".... In a FWD vehicle, if the back end does break loose, a little countersteer and acceleration will bring it back in line. ..."
That is true, IF you have the room to do it. Usually that countersteering will make you run at least as wide or wider in the corner than understeer, plus the acceleration now makes this all happen faster and eats up more road in the process. If we are talking straight line cross ups due to ice, that's a little different, but adding speed in the presence of ice does not seem like a good idea to me. (and yes, I've driven on snow and ice)
Understeer: The front wheels slide first
Oversteer: The back wheels slide first
Or as they say in NASCAR:
Understeer: The front of the car hits the wall first.
Oversteer: The back of the car hits the wall first.
With understeer, you get off the gas, hit the brakes, and if you are lucky, you scrub off enough speed to regain traction and you go on your way.
With oversteer, you are backwards off the road, into the wall etc. Now jroehl says:
".... In a FWD vehicle, if the back end does break loose, a little countersteer and acceleration will bring it back in line. ..."
That is true, IF you have the room to do it. Usually that countersteering will make you run at least as wide or wider in the corner than understeer, plus the acceleration now makes this all happen faster and eats up more road in the process. If we are talking straight line cross ups due to ice, that's a little different, but adding speed in the presence of ice does not seem like a good idea to me. (and yes, I've driven on snow and ice)
#25
My poor daughter in BFE Illinois driving a 2006 Fusion just had a slight fender bender. She was making a turn (probably too fast) and the front end just kept on going. Her tires are in poor condition to say the least accompanied with her inexperience in winter time driving.
She's coming home to visit later this month and at a minimum, I'm replacing the two front tires. The two next best will go out back if I don't replace all four.
Tim
She's coming home to visit later this month and at a minimum, I'm replacing the two front tires. The two next best will go out back if I don't replace all four.
Tim
#26
My poor daughter in BFE Illinois driving a 2006 Fusion just had a slight fender bender. She was making a turn (probably too fast) and the front end just kept on going. Her tires are in poor condition to say the least accompanied with her inexperience in winter time driving.
She's coming home to visit later this month and at a minimum, I'm replacing the two front tires. The two next best will go out back if I don't replace all four.
Tim
She's coming home to visit later this month and at a minimum, I'm replacing the two front tires. The two next best will go out back if I don't replace all four.
Tim
#27
Tim
#28
It's old news that when you have RWD, and the back end breaks loose you can probably drive through it.
If you have front wheel drive, and break loose - if you can't POWER through it you are done
If you have AWD and you get loose - prepare to meet your maker. You've been STUPID and should have known it long before it happened
If you have front wheel drive, and break loose - if you can't POWER through it you are done
If you have AWD and you get loose - prepare to meet your maker. You've been STUPID and should have known it long before it happened
#29
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: London, Ontario Canada
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It's old news that when you have RWD, and the back end breaks loose you can probably drive through it.
If you have front wheel drive, and break loose - if you can't POWER through it you are done
If you have AWD and you get loose - prepare to meet your maker. You've been STUPID and should have known it long before it happened
If you have front wheel drive, and break loose - if you can't POWER through it you are done
If you have AWD and you get loose - prepare to meet your maker. You've been STUPID and should have known it long before it happened
very true, lol lol lol
also its kinda scary when you have a rear wheel drive Mustang and no snow tires up front, and you apply the brakes and the front end slides side to side! yes the front! it can happen, as the front wheels are where most of the stopping power comes from in a car/truck, thus you would be better off with skis up front!, thus i suggest winter tires on all 4 corners no matter if your vehicle is RWD or Front wheel drive or AWD/4x4, also no matter if you have AWD/4x4 or not, they all stop the same, if you have poor tires then expect to slide, thus i hate these people in these AWD vehicles in the winter, they drive like its summer time!
-Brent
#30