Commercial vs. Non-Com Registrations in MA
#107
11-03-2010, 08:18 PM
#109
11-03-2010, 10:39 PM
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Join the Facebook group, "Change the Dually registration law in MA!" BigDually@groups.facebook.com
#110
11-04-2010, 06:16 PM
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Thanks everyone for your show of support. I think what you have already done by contacting the state offices and your local representatives is the best strategy currently. Regardless of who is your rep or state senator, we should all keep Senator Moore on our mailing list so he can judge the total size of public reaction to this. His office does seem to be able to get the registry to communicate with them -- more than I can say right now.
I'm told that the next possible step we could take is to get a sponsor to draft legislation in the state senate to force a policy shift or ammendment to the Mass General Laws. I fear that would be a long road and hard to get out of committee. One thing that might help the cause would be to catalogue examples of how other lower 48 states handle this category of pickup. If you know the rules in other states or have time to do some internet research please post what you find so I can compile it into some slides. I'd like to make the argument that outside of NY and CT, the MA rules are worse or more burdensome than other states. I think that is true but I have not done all the leg-work to know for sure.
Thanks again. I just wrote my renewal check and I'm about to bend over for my annual $125 inspection fee.
I drove the truck a grand total of 5000 miles since the last inspection. That's 40 miles per inspection dollar. My Prius gets 1000 miles per inspection dollar. Looking at it another way, it's almost 10 cents per mile in inspection and registration fees each year for recreational use.
I'm told that the next possible step we could take is to get a sponsor to draft legislation in the state senate to force a policy shift or ammendment to the Mass General Laws. I fear that would be a long road and hard to get out of committee. One thing that might help the cause would be to catalogue examples of how other lower 48 states handle this category of pickup. If you know the rules in other states or have time to do some internet research please post what you find so I can compile it into some slides. I'd like to make the argument that outside of NY and CT, the MA rules are worse or more burdensome than other states. I think that is true but I have not done all the leg-work to know for sure.
Thanks again. I just wrote my renewal check and I'm about to bend over for my annual $125 inspection fee.
I drove the truck a grand total of 5000 miles since the last inspection. That's 40 miles per inspection dollar. My Prius gets 1000 miles per inspection dollar. Looking at it another way, it's almost 10 cents per mile in inspection and registration fees each year for recreational use.
#111
11-04-2010, 08:43 PM
I just saw this old thread again, I will say I had posted on here over a year ago.I had an 06 f-350 srw, my gvwr was 11,200 and it was registered as pass.and never paid more than $29 to have it inspected, also never had any issues with the 56,000 miles I put on it, not once was I ever harrased by a trooper.....now that being said this past september I bought a new 2010 6.4 f-350 crewcab srw, gvwr is 11,400, transfered plates and everyone at the dealer(metro ford raynham) said I could, and that I didnt need comm. plates. and only needed a regular insp.............I think some of you are getting hosed! I know a shop in newton that we take a few of our work trucks to for the commercial inspection and I had this exact discussion with the owner/inspector and he says as long as its a personal vehicle you dont need the comm. plates or inspection.
#112
11-04-2010, 09:11 PM
SRW
Seems to me that because not everyone is on the same page as far as the regulations go, people are getting away with registering SRW 350's as passenger...can't imagine they're gonna have too much of an issue with cops, it doesn't stand out the way a dually does. I'm not really sure, I have yet to own anything bigger than a 250.
#114
11-04-2010, 09:53 PM
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540 CMR 2.00: MOTOR VEHICLE REGULATIONS
Section
2.05: Vehicle Registrations Requirements
2.06: Operator Licensing Requirements
2.07: Year of Manufacture Registration Plates
2.15: Licensing of Operators of School Buses
2.22: Markings on Commercial Vehicles
http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/source/mass/cmr/cmrtext/540CMR2.pdf
There is nothing in 540CMR2.00 that mandates commerical registration for SRW 350s over 10K GVW. Read 2.05-3. What we know is that there are another set of DOT regulations for vehicle inspections that appy to any vehicle over 10,000 GVW regardless of 4 wheels or 6. I don't have the link to those rules handy but this is where the confusion comes in. If you do not have a dually, but you have a 350, some dealers and many inspection stations interpret the inspection regs to mandate commercial registration. As you will see in this thread, there are all manner of stories about how much people are charged and whether they had to switch plates to pass inspection.
I can tell you first hand I have met people who were denied their sticker because of this and when they appealed to the registry they were told they had to switch. I am sure this is a mis-read of those regs but it really boils down to what is being enforced. If someone has been tagged over this please tell us. I don't think I have seen evidence of this so far.
#116
11-05-2010, 05:51 PM
Commercial Inspection Regulations
Massachusetts commercial inspection regulations, which apply to pickup trucks over 10,000 GVWR can be found at http://www.mass.gov/rmv/inspect/commercial_regs.pdf
A SRW 350 can be registered as passenger and still be subjected to the commercial inspection, there is absolutely no reason that a dually should be treated any differently. 540 CMR 2.05 claims that the regulations are in effect for safety purposes; as long as the trucks are being inspected commercially (extra hundred bucks, whatever), commercial registration does nothing to enhance the purpose behind the regulation.
A SRW 350 can be registered as passenger and still be subjected to the commercial inspection, there is absolutely no reason that a dually should be treated any differently. 540 CMR 2.05 claims that the regulations are in effect for safety purposes; as long as the trucks are being inspected commercially (extra hundred bucks, whatever), commercial registration does nothing to enhance the purpose behind the regulation.
#117
12-01-2010, 10:20 AM
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Updates?
I am wondering if there are any updates to this case?
Apparently I am one of the lucky ones. I have an 04 350 DRW Super Crew long bed that is registered and insured as a passenger vehicle. Thats what it is. I use it to transport my family, my camper and a TON of Booster Club gear.
But I don't use it commercially.
I have had this truck nearly a year now and so far, so good. Although I have not run into any over zealous officers either.
When I read the law. I read it slightly different. I think there may be a fight here.
Commercial Motor Vehicle shall mean any motor vehicle which is not a private passenger motor vehicle, antique motor car, motorcycle, auto home, house trailer, taxicab, ambulance, hearse, livery vehicle, or school pupil transport vehicle. A commercial motor vehicle shall include the following vehicles:
But if it IS a private passenger vehicle, wouldn't the ruling stop right there? Regardless of the rest?
Just curious what the lawers have had to say about it.
G
Apparently I am one of the lucky ones. I have an 04 350 DRW Super Crew long bed that is registered and insured as a passenger vehicle. Thats what it is. I use it to transport my family, my camper and a TON of Booster Club gear.
But I don't use it commercially. I have had this truck nearly a year now and so far, so good. Although I have not run into any over zealous officers either.
When I read the law. I read it slightly different. I think there may be a fight here.
Commercial Motor Vehicle shall mean any motor vehicle which is not a private passenger motor vehicle, antique motor car, motorcycle, auto home, house trailer, taxicab, ambulance, hearse, livery vehicle, or school pupil transport vehicle. A commercial motor vehicle shall include the following vehicles:
But if it IS a private passenger vehicle, wouldn't the ruling stop right there? Regardless of the rest?
Just curious what the lawers have had to say about it.
G
#118
12-01-2010, 12:41 PM
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I am wondering if there are any updates to this case?
Apparently I am one of the lucky ones. I have an 04 350 DRW Super Crew long bed that is registered and insured as a passenger vehicle. Thats what it is. I use it to transport my family, my camper and a TON of Booster Club gear. But I don't use it commercially.
I have had this truck nearly a year now and so far, so good. Although I have not run into any over zealous officers either.
When I read the law. I read it slightly different. I think there may be a fight here.
Commercial Motor Vehicle shall mean any motor vehicle which is not a private passenger motor vehicle, antique motor car, motorcycle, auto home, house trailer, taxicab, ambulance, hearse, livery vehicle, or school pupil transport vehicle. A commercial motor vehicle shall include the following vehicles:
But if it IS a private passenger vehicle, wouldn't the ruling stop right there? Regardless of the rest?
Just curious what the lawers have had to say about it.
G
Apparently I am one of the lucky ones. I have an 04 350 DRW Super Crew long bed that is registered and insured as a passenger vehicle. Thats what it is. I use it to transport my family, my camper and a TON of Booster Club gear.
But I don't use it commercially. I have had this truck nearly a year now and so far, so good. Although I have not run into any over zealous officers either.
When I read the law. I read it slightly different. I think there may be a fight here.
Commercial Motor Vehicle shall mean any motor vehicle which is not a private passenger motor vehicle, antique motor car, motorcycle, auto home, house trailer, taxicab, ambulance, hearse, livery vehicle, or school pupil transport vehicle. A commercial motor vehicle shall include the following vehicles:
But if it IS a private passenger vehicle, wouldn't the ruling stop right there? Regardless of the rest?
Just curious what the lawers have had to say about it.
G
First, your point about having a non-commercial registration is exactly the kind of thing we are struggling with. The enforcement and even the registration process itself is inconsistent. Can you please tell us how you actuall registered your truck? Was your insurance agent involved in the process?
As far as the wording on the law, I have also flagged that particular sentence and in my letter to the registry I pointed out that the sentence contains a couple of problems when you parse it. However, regardless of the language, there is little question that the "5 wheels or more on the ground" qualifier that comes after, overrides the attempt to claim a DRW is a passebger vehicle. The "official" read from the registry is that only the specifically listed vehicles are excluded, and in their view a "private passenger motor vehicle" can't be one that has 6 wheels unless it is one of the ones listed, like a "auto home". I don't like the way the entire paragraph is written.
Anyway, welcome to the fight. It will be your cause as well soon enough. Maybe the next time you renew, or your next inspection, or whenever....
No mroe news yet but we're still fighting!
Steve
#119
12-02-2010, 02:38 PM
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I figure it will be my fight soon enough, which is why I am very interested in the outcome.
My truck was registered from the dealer in which I bought it from. When he brought the documentation to the registry they simply handed it over, they registered it. I am not sure if they told them it was a DRW or not, but you would have thought the system would have flagged it as such since the VIN shows it as a DRW.
Now comes the interesting part.
What happens if I am stopped on account of it? I should probably stock the truck full of the safety gear that is required of a commercial vehicles just to satisfy that need.
I'll be honest I didn't even know that it was a problem until I went to have it inspected, the guy got done and I was talking about putting a plow on the truck and I was told that "You can't put a plow on that truck, it's too small" When I question he thought it was a 150. The registration says 350 but because it was passenger he didn't realize it. They inspected it anyway and let it go. Not sure if they are going to this year or not.
When I asked my insurance agent, I was told that I have passenger insurance anyway so the commercial tags would not matter to insurance.
BTW, I have already expressed my interest in this changing to my local reps (I live in Shrewsbury) but is there anything else we can do to encourage this to happen sooner rather than later.
I personally own an older 35' camper and will be buying a large slide in for the truck as well. The DRW as far as I am concerned is a safety issue. It is far more stable than a SRW with the trailer or the load on. It's strictly passenger and towing my toys.
G
They are very inconsistent. I have seen several DRWs registered as passenger in this state.
My truck was registered from the dealer in which I bought it from. When he brought the documentation to the registry they simply handed it over, they registered it. I am not sure if they told them it was a DRW or not, but you would have thought the system would have flagged it as such since the VIN shows it as a DRW.
Now comes the interesting part.
What happens if I am stopped on account of it? I should probably stock the truck full of the safety gear that is required of a commercial vehicles just to satisfy that need.
I'll be honest I didn't even know that it was a problem until I went to have it inspected, the guy got done and I was talking about putting a plow on the truck and I was told that "You can't put a plow on that truck, it's too small" When I question he thought it was a 150. The registration says 350 but because it was passenger he didn't realize it. They inspected it anyway and let it go. Not sure if they are going to this year or not.
When I asked my insurance agent, I was told that I have passenger insurance anyway so the commercial tags would not matter to insurance.
BTW, I have already expressed my interest in this changing to my local reps (I live in Shrewsbury) but is there anything else we can do to encourage this to happen sooner rather than later.
I personally own an older 35' camper and will be buying a large slide in for the truck as well. The DRW as far as I am concerned is a safety issue. It is far more stable than a SRW with the trailer or the load on. It's strictly passenger and towing my toys.
G
They are very inconsistent. I have seen several DRWs registered as passenger in this state.
#120
12-02-2010, 03:06 PM
Folks,
Have any of you been caught in the Massachusetts commercial registration vise that I have encountered? It seems that even though they recognize F250 and F350 pickups as elegible for non-commercial registration, if you have a dually, you have no choice. MA has a one sentence clause in their rules, 540CMR2.05-3(b) which states "Any vehicle which has five or more wheels on the ground" must be registered as commercial. This after they excludes campers, motor homes, and a whole list of other things, making it targeted specifically at dual rear wheel pickups.
I am forming a campaign to get this changed as it is a ridiculous extra burden for those of us with trailer campers. It makes the registration, inspection and toll fees hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars higher for no apparent benefit to anyone except the state. If you are of a similar mind, can you let me know here so we can get an organized letter writing activity going to both the Governor and the Registrar?
If you have had similar experiences in other states can you share those here as well to help me build a stronger case to get a change made? I am specifically looking for either states that allow the non-commercial registration of DRW F350s and similar trucks, or those states that have recently had changes to allow such use.
The registry in MA has publically commented that they support the rules because of numerous people not registering their commercial vehicles as such. Those of us who are legally using our DRW trucks for personal enjoyment and recreation should not be treated badly in retalliation for those who circumvent the commercial registration vehicle laws.
Moderator: If this would belong in another area of the forum then please let me know and move it. I figured the Super Duty people would be most likely to have an opinion on this.
Thanks
Steve
Have any of you been caught in the Massachusetts commercial registration vise that I have encountered? It seems that even though they recognize F250 and F350 pickups as elegible for non-commercial registration, if you have a dually, you have no choice. MA has a one sentence clause in their rules, 540CMR2.05-3(b) which states "Any vehicle which has five or more wheels on the ground" must be registered as commercial. This after they excludes campers, motor homes, and a whole list of other things, making it targeted specifically at dual rear wheel pickups.
I am forming a campaign to get this changed as it is a ridiculous extra burden for those of us with trailer campers. It makes the registration, inspection and toll fees hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars higher for no apparent benefit to anyone except the state. If you are of a similar mind, can you let me know here so we can get an organized letter writing activity going to both the Governor and the Registrar?
If you have had similar experiences in other states can you share those here as well to help me build a stronger case to get a change made? I am specifically looking for either states that allow the non-commercial registration of DRW F350s and similar trucks, or those states that have recently had changes to allow such use.
The registry in MA has publically commented that they support the rules because of numerous people not registering their commercial vehicles as such. Those of us who are legally using our DRW trucks for personal enjoyment and recreation should not be treated badly in retalliation for those who circumvent the commercial registration vehicle laws.
Moderator: If this would belong in another area of the forum then please let me know and move it. I figured the Super Duty people would be most likely to have an opinion on this.
Thanks
Steve
Last edited by powerstroke72; 12-02-2010 at 03:43 PM. Reason: Political references