Fiat, the parent company of Chrysler, also owns Case-IH and New Holland. Both of those companies source (many but not all of) their diesel engines from Iveco- also a Fiat owned company.

So, if the Cummins issues continue, will Fiat replace Cummins with Iveco as the supplier of diesel engines for the Dodge trucks manufactured in Mexico and sold in the United States?

-mike

 

No they won't. Fiat isn't a dumb company. Fiat owns Ferrari, so they know just how much brand means to some people, the Cummins in the Dodge has a lot of brand power.

 

Lead Head:

It would appear that Daimler made the same calculation you did. But, isn't Ford doing the same thing by dropping International? How many people bought a Ford diesel BECAUSE of the International motor? Or are consumers so stupid that as long as it says "PowerStroke" they think that it is the same motor?

Still- you are correct- the "C" badge makes the Dodge truck more attractive - probably more so to the American consumer than an "Iveco" badge...

-mike

 

Interesting question, IHbase.

I think I agree with Lead Head on this one. Remember that Ford never advertised the PSD as in International engine. It's always been a "Ford" Power Stroke. Therefore the brand recognition isn't nearly as strong with Ford owners as it is with Dodge.

To be honest I think this is one area Dodge got right. Everyone knows Cummins makes engines for heavy duty applications. Therefore advertising an engine as such makes people think they're buying a real truck with real truck components.

This also would have been a huge advantage in a situation like they're in now, where an engine(6.0!) was plagued with problems. Everyone knows the 6.0 had more problems than it should have, and everywhere you look it's known as a "Ford" engine. Had the PSDs been named as Navistar or International engines, it would be much easier to get away from the 6.0s reputation with this new Ford built engine.

But, as far as anyone can tell with the way it's being named and advertised, the 6.7L is a "Power Stroke" just the same as the 6.0.

 

My personal opinion, with the 6.0 problems and the 6.7 being entirely under the Ford name, I think the 6.7 will be a success. Ford cannot afford it not to be. There are always bugs with 1st year items but I think and hope they will be held to a minimum.

 

Fiat has already ended the Dodge Cummins,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, its now the Ram Cummins.
The name change makes me wonder if Fiat even wants the truck division.

 

The truck business is a large part of Chryslers business - Fiat also owns a truck company as well, and they certainly know trucks are profitable. Its quite easy to see why they spun the truck division off as its own RAM brand. Let "RAM" focus specifically on trucks, but let the Dodge division focus more on sportier "fun" cars. It is helping to give the brands a specific direction.

 

A specific direction...............like maybe Nissan Ram?

 

Nissan deal already fell through long ago

 

I think the Iveco engines are holding up well - a few friends have them in their CaseIH and NH combines. The positive connection to Navistar seems to have ended with 7.3. The 6.0 reliability issues and the 6.4 fuel consumption dont have too many people over excited about their power plants; however, the trucks themselves remain very solid and have a strong following. I am hoping the 6.7 will be a positive engine experience for the Superduty crowd - we need it!!!

 

a long time ago wasn't the 5.9bt a joint design from cummins and case? if so when did the switch to the iveco?

 

I think the firsrt appearance of the Iveco engine in the CNH equipment was in the CR960/970 combines and the 8010 combine.
I am not sure if they have expanded the use in the rest of the line up.

 

Lets talk market for a second:

November 2009 Top 10 Year-to-Date Pickup Truck Sales - PickupTrucks.com News


Top 10 Pickup Truck Sales, Year-to-Date, November 2009

No. 1: Ford F-Series
365,416 -22.9% YTD
November 2009: 30,494
November 2008: 37,911

No. 2: Chevrolet Silverado
283,243 -34.4% YTD
November 2009: 22,101
November 2008: 29,534

No. 3: Dodge Ram
165,254 -28.0% YTD
November 2009: 9,787
November 2008: 15,538

No. 4: Toyota Tacoma
102,327 -24.2% YTD
November 2009: 7,633
November 2008: 8,648

No. 5: GMC Sierra
99,698 -35.9% YTD
November 2009: 8,371
November 2008: 10,497

No. 6: Toyota Tundra
70,515 -44.5% YTD
November 2009: 6,379
November 2008: 6,607

No. 7: Ford Ranger
51,097 -17.6% YTD
November 2009: 3,271
November 2008: 3,311

No. 8: Chevrolet Colorado
30,614 -38.6% YTD
November 2009: 1,316
November 2008: 2,503

No. 9: Nissan Frontier
25,427 -41.7% YTD
November 2009: 2,007
November 2008: 1,171

No. 10: Nissan Titan
16,894 -47.1% YTD
November 2009: 1,501
November 2008: 1,022

 

Dodge is doing 165,000 units as of end of November 2009.

Say they end the year with 170,000 units.

Only a fraction of that is diesel.

The question is, does that volume justify continuing a line that is way down in sales?

 

I think its a bigger fraction then you may think. For the RAM HDs the Diesel take rate is nearly 90%. Dodge doesn't have a "big" gasser like Ford does, so most people will opt for the Diesel inst