As far as right now goes you can build a 351 for a whole lot less money than a 5.4, and I would say overall the Windsor, and older engines are more capable when you build them up. However I have to give the drivability aspect to the Modular motors.

One of these days the Modular motors will probably be cheap to build up for good power, but they will never match the potential power out put of a 351 or a 460. There is no replacement for displacement is still kind of true, and you can build the older motors to the hilt, and then throw a blower on it on top of that.

I don't think a 500 HP 351 would be as nice to drive everyday as a 500 HP 5.4, and I don't think a 5.4 will ever be able to compete power wise against the older Ford motors, but I honestly think it will get cheaper to build the Modular motors. So it's just whatever you want to run with. If the cost were similar right now I think I'd take a 4V DOHC 5.4 with a good set of headers, and slightly better cams, and no blower.

I bet there are TTV8's on the horizon, but won't it be the same thing as a TTV6? If gas engines are so much different than diesel engines for boost then the V8 will have the same speculated "reliability issues" as a TTV6. Maybe they are using the V6 as a test mule for the V8's to come.

 

You still miss my point. Yes, you can tune and supercharge the 5.4 and make as much power as a bored and stroked 5.8. But guess what? You can tune and supercharge a 5.8 too. So you tune and supercharge your 5.4 and make as much power as my bored and stroked 5.8 and then I'll tune and supercharge my bored and stroked 5.8 and pass you up again. My other point is that the 5.4 already comes with about the 2nd or 3rd best head available for it. There is less room for improvement when it comes to heads. The stock heads on a 5.8 have less airflow per port than most stock 4 cylinder heads made today. So there is plenty of room for improvement.

Funny you mention that. Because I happen to have a 500 hp 351w that I used as a daily driver for 7 years AND ran the dog **** out of it at the track 2 time a week. The only reason I'm not driving it right now is because it twisted my car in half, ripped the torque box out of it and split the windshield. I'm currently prepping another car for it and it will go back on the street again as soon as I'm done. I also have a 5.0 that has 212k miles on it and still runs like brand new.

What new technology is there for me to catch up with? Cat back exhaust, cold air intake, tuner and a supercharger? They have been doing that to 5.0's for almost 25 years now. That's not really new technology. Sorry, but I prefer an engine that I can do those bolt on jobs AND get another 100 cubic inches out of.

 

My 500 hp 351w does good as a daily driver. It has a rough idle due to the big cam, but actually driving it isn't an issue at all. And personally, I like a car with a big cam idle. I could have went with a smaller cam and blower and had it run just as smooth as a 5.4, but I built it to run on engine alone with no power adders. There are plenty of daily driven 500 hp 5.0 mustangs with blowers that have as smooth an idle as a stock one.

Yes, the tt v8 would run into the same issues as the tt v6, but if I have to deal with those issues I would rather deal with them with a v8 instead of a v6. Diesels are also running over 19 to 1 compression with that 25-30 psi and no intercooler too. Try running 8 psi on an 11 to 1 compression gas engine even with an intercooler and see what happens. There is a reason why they recommend you don't run over 8 or 9 to 1 compression on a boosted gasser. Diesels and gassers are totally different animals when it comes to boost.

 

Good grief, these threads suck.

The 5.4 and the 351W are completely different motors. The 5.4 retains driveability when you get into the forced induction and modifications. The 302 or 351W are not so much. The are tons of options for cams, heads, intakes, etc for the modular motors along with blowers, turbos, etc. The driveability of the modular motors (fuel economy, idle quality, etc) is better on than the SBF.

Comparing the boost pressures to a diesel vs a gas motor is stupid. You are comparing a compression ignition motor to a spark ignition motor. They are NOT the same.

 

Just put a decent set of heads on your 460 and you'll be surprised at the power it makes in the upper rpms. The stock heads on the 460 are some of the worst made for any engine and basically choke the engine off above 4k rpm. Stock vs stock the v10 will pull circles around the 460, just like the 5.4 vs the 5.8. But your 460 also has a much smaller lift cam, heads that flow half as much air, and two less cylinders. Even a few of those things up and you'll see that the difference between the two isn't as much as you think it is.

Hey now, I never said the inline 6 was a bad engine, so don't be trying to get me in trouble lol. I just said it has no power. My uncle has put his through hell and back and it still runs like new. It just isn't the best choice for towing.

 

Where's any evidence of this.....how many 750HP 5.8L's came out of the factory? Or for that matter how many of them even are on the street that you could even consider driving in traffic......

 

Come try and drive that big cam, tuned 5.8 here in january when its 20 below.......now go hook it to a 8,000 lb trailer and tow it 1200 miles.....its not going to be doin that all day long......where as alot of guys have done it with 5.4's...

 

So are you comparing cylinder count or displacement? Seems to me that the V10 is smaller than the 460. Are you comparing modified motors to stock motors? Compare stock for stock if you are going to...

There is something we can agree on. Thank god that 300 I6 was put to bed. It was about time.

 

Well I wouldn't consider driving a 750 HP anything in traffic. I'm not arguing with you Ryan50hrl, I agree that the 5.4 is better as a driver even with mass amouts of power, in fact I think I would choose a 5.4 over a 351 even though if my 300 dies I can just throw a 351 almost right in it's place. I would actually think about throwing a 3V or better 5.4 in place of my 300 if I had the money.

Look at what can be done to the Windsor motors, or the 385 Series motors, huge boring, massive stroke cranks, awesome aftermarket heads, cams, all kinds of blowers, intakes, fancy aftermarket cranks, the list goes on and on(I know the Modulars hav an aftermarket too, but it ain't nothing compared to the older stuff), I mean the 351 is capable of making up around 500 cubes, and I think the 460 is capable of like 800 cubes.

Honestly the Modulars are no match for these motors when it comes to all out power production. Drivability yes the Modular motors win, but all out power, and dollar for dollar the old motors walk all over the Modulars.

 

The modular retains driveability when built because the majority of people that build them don't change the cam lift. You can supercharge a 5.0 or 5.8 and leave the stock cam in it and it will maintain driveability as well. I built mine with a big cam because I like the sound of a big cam and I didn't want to run forced induction.

I wasn't comparing the boost on a diesel to boost on a gasser. Dwrestle(who does not own a diesel) was asking why diesels were different than gassers when it came to boost. If you look at my reply to him you will see that I said the same thing as you.

 

So just because none came from the factory you are saying that it can't be done? Is 750 hp on the street supposed to be impressive? Here is one of my friends cars. He's running over 1,500 hp on the street on what used to be his daily driver. He doesn't drive it on the street anymore because he put a 2 speed powerglide in it. It's a turbo 5.0 that's not even stroked or bored. Ford Mustang On The Strip0 Photo

 

I've said many times that comparing stock vs stock the advantage goes to the modulars hands down. There is no denying that. What I am saying is compare equal to equal. Give both the same flow heads, same lift cam, same everything. Over time the industy standards for hp have changed, so engines have gotten better flowing heads, bigger cams, more fuel, more air, etc. Comparing stock vs stock is like comparing a 5.0 from my bronco to a 5.0 from a mustang and a 5.0 from a cobra. It's the exact same engine with the exact same potential, but the cobra had 240 hp, the mustang had 225 hp and my bronco has 185 hp. Does that mean the cobra has the potential to make more power and is a better engine just because it came from the factory with the most hp? When I'm comparing engines I look at how they will do with equal parts, not how they came from the factory.

 

Well Ford is going back to the big bore/short stroke set up for the 6.2. In fact the bore of the 6.2 shares that of the 302 and 351. The stroke is a little bit longer than the 351's. 3.85'' vs 3.5.'' So, I think it's safe to say the nature of the 351 is worth going back to (with modern technology behind it). I think if Ford reduced the stroke on the 6.2 to 3.5'' to make it a 351 - it wouldn't change a whole lot to the potential power. Having said that, the 5.4 did the job, but I don't think Ford will get a whole lot more out of it. Yes, you can make any engine really powerful, but there is more to it than that. If we are comparing the oversquare nature of the 351 to the undersquare nature of the 5.4, I am excited that Ford is going back to oversquare.

 

The power some guys get out of the modulars is incredible and they are even running the stock blocks. Even the smaller 4.6l can put out crazy power.

 

The longer the stroke the better in a truck as far as I'm concerned, it's just nice to have a big bore and stroke. Square or under is better for a truck generally speaking, and over square is better for the Mustang, and bigger displacement is always better.