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1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Fat Fendered and Classic Ford Trucks

stock 53 starts one day,not another?

 
  #1  
Old 11-03-2009, 11:03 AM
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Question stock 53 starts one day,not another?

Hi Guys and Gals!!

My problem is.....my 53 is 6volt,and 223 6cylinder . It has all new tune up parts installed this year. I put 1000 miles on it this year. Does it need to have a new tune up now?
The darn truck will start up 1 day,and not the next. My big 56 doesn't even have a choke and it starts every day...LOL
Is the choke the problem? I pump the gas about 4 times and crank it....then I pull choke out and crank it....vrooom it usually starts.
Now it is getting tempermental......what should I do?
Thanks....................Bill
 
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:19 PM
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I don't know if these are your problems or not, but two common intermittent problems we used to run across with the 6's was 1: a broken wire to the distributor. It would break right at the point the wire entered the distributor housing. It would look fine but wasn't. Try replacing the wire. 2: moisture under the distributor cap. Moisture would build up under the cap on cool damp mornings. Try opening the cap when it won't start and look for signs of moisture and tell tale fine metallic lines inside the cap. They will look like very fine cracks from the post(s) to the edge of the cap. Unless you have an issue with carb gasket letting the float bowl go dry overnight, I would pump the pedal no more than 2 times, then set 3/4 choke (I assume you have manual choke) and crank the engine over. Too much raw fuel will wet the plugs and prevent firing. If all else fails, pull a plug or two when the engine fails to start. If it is wet and smells of gasoline, it's flooded or no spark. If it is black and/or oily, you have oil control issues that are fouling the plugs, If it is tan and dry the engine is not getting fuel. Hook the primary wire back onto the plug and lay the metal shell of the plug on the engine block or a bare metal surface where you can see the end of the plug (DON'T hold it with your hand or with a pair of pliers unless you want to practice your Superman impression!) and crank the engine over 4-6 rotations. There should be a loud sharp white spark when the plug fires.
If the spark is weak and/or yellow or no spark is seen, there is an ignition problem. One thing about these engines they are VERY basic and need just 3 things to run, fuel, air, and a spark, which makes trouble shooting easy.
 
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Old 11-03-2009, 01:08 PM
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You might want to check the fuel pump as well. If the diaphragm is starting to go bad it will allow gas to syphon out of the carb back into the gas tank - especially on cold mornings.

Next time it does this, stop trying to start it and squirt a little starter fluid (or use the unlit propane torch method Ross taught us) in the carb to see if that will fire it up.

If the start fluid doesn't start it right up, I'd go with the distributor wire being bad like AX suggested.

Also, if it has been sitting, do you have water condensation in the gas tank. It might be settling in the carb bowl as well and you are pumping it into the engine instead of pure fuel.

All it needs is compression, fuel and spark at the right time You can check the spark, and check the fuel easy enough when it is tempermental. Try pumping the IL6 more or fewer times to find what's right for it in the cold or pumping twice and setting the choke before you start.
 
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Old 11-03-2009, 01:24 PM
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To quote my brother (a dyed in the wool Ford guy)...

....."working on a Ford is like stepping on your own *****"

I would definately check the wire between the coil and the distributor as Ax suggested, I've seen that more than once on older engines. if you can get the engien started, grab that wire and wiggle it around....if the engien dies then there you are.

I've also had many an older carb leak down overnight which would take for some extra cranking to fill the bowl back up. Before trying to start the truck take a look down the carb and work the throttle, you should get a decent squirt of gas on every pump of the pedal.

Bobby
 
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Old 11-03-2009, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bobbytnm View Post
To quote my brother (a dyed in the wool Ford guy)...

....."working on a Ford is like stepping on your own *****"


Bobby

Man.... that's poetry... what profound wisdom....brings a tear to my eye.....
 
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Old 11-03-2009, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by eman92082 View Post
Man.... that's poetry... what profound wisdom....brings a tear to my eye.....

thats because you're stepping down a little too hard my good man
 
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Old 11-03-2009, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by eman92082 View Post
Man.... that's poetry... what profound wisdom....brings a tear to my eye.....
E-Dawg
Take off your Golf Shoes.


Bill

I vote for the Dizzy Cap - hair line cracks will drive you crazy.
 
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Old 11-03-2009, 05:17 PM
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Hey Bill, if it only starts every other day just mark you calender on the days you know it's gonna start and only plan on driving it on those days indicated on you calender, sure will cut down on the stress or just fix the distribator wire like Ax said
 
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Old 11-03-2009, 07:16 PM
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New 6V condensers are almost always crap... they absorb moisture, making cold starts hard but dry out as you drive, so re-starts are OK... Go electronic!
 
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Old 11-03-2009, 07:59 PM
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Thanks guys....tomorrow we will see if it will run. It wouldn't today,so it most likely will tomorrow...haha
I will do as suggested,and the electronic idea is good. I installed a pertronix ignitor on my 272 in the 56,and varooom.....and that is with nochoke.
I am still confused about using the choke. I try not pulling it out and it starts....but other times when cold it starts with no choke and then with choke.
I always thought ...pump throttle 3-4 times crank it.....after 4-5 turns,then pull choke all the way out.....and it should start.
Bill
 
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Old 11-03-2009, 08:42 PM
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The general rule assuming the engine has timing set etc (was running), if you have gas and spark it should run. When it doesn't start, pull the air cleaner and check for gas in the carb. To much or none would keep it from starting.

I just bought my 50 F1 V8 and was told by the fellow that even with a rebuilt fuel pump and carb they all leak back after a day or so and he installed an electric fuel pump to prime the system so he didn't have to crank as long. Says turn on for a few seconds, start and shut off the electric assist.

Jim...
 
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:04 AM
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just a little something , whether electronic or points i have had an issue with on every ford i've owned . moisture in the cap !!! don't know how or why but it inveribally happens . i started spraying the cap and dizzy down with silicone or something to protect it from moisture seeping in { and yes i checked the caps for cracks guy's ! }every once in a while and i don't have that issue anymore . oh and with points i always carry an old match book cover . there about 15 thousandths thick , and a screwdriver cause those d-mn points always seem to " slip " out of adjustment at the most inopportune moments .......................................
 
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:27 AM
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The carb was rebuilt by craig woodruff....a pro and the fuel pump is new and the plugs and points are new. It runs great....after cranking for a while and keeping your fingers crossed.
I am going to go 12 volt asap.
The wire looks fine but will change it today.....
 
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:34 AM
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The choke thing is pretty simple Bill.

Basically the choke plate is opened and closed to allow more or less air into the fuel air mixture.

A cold engine requires a much richer mixture to run. So by pumping the gas pedal, you are shooting raw gas down into the intake manifold and it really richens up the mixture. Once that extra gas is burned up, you need to pull out the choke for the mixture (that is now being created by the venturi action of the air being sucked through the carb) to be richer as well.

It's all a matter of feel with certain engines and temperatures. Chances are if you pumped the throttle 4 times and pulled out the choke right away the engine would be flooded.

This 6 cylinder has more volume per cylinder than your V8 so it will react differently.

The way you start your V8 is the method described in the Operators Manuals. In VERY cold climates, it recommends pulling the choke half way to start as well.

When I start the 390, I push the gas pedal to the floor one time then pull the choke out about half way. It starts right up. Then I adjust the choke so the fast idle is running at about 1000 rpm until the engine warms up.

I dated a Navy Pilot for awhile who frequently took me flying in a T-28 with a Radial Engine. When you start that plane, the mixture lever (basically a choke) is left completely off. When starting the engine, it is turned over with a starter and a primer button is held down dumping raw gas into the cylinders - then the magnetos are switched on and the engine runs. That engine is running on the raw gas being shot into the manifold by the primer button until the mixture lever is advanced to "Rich." Then as the engine cuts out from flooding, the primer button is released. Same concept with the truck. Gas pedal pumping is like the primer button.

Just an interesting tidbit of info to stick in the back of yor brain: If you ever get in a situation where you can not turn you truck off using the ignition switch (ie the switch fails, you are stealing a truck and have it hotwired, or someone trying to be helpful puts diesel fuel in you truck instead of gasoline) you can stop your engine from running by pulling the choke out completely cutting off the air supply. It'll stop - even when dieseling - trust me I know!
 
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Old 11-04-2009, 01:15 PM
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I had all sorts of trouble starting the 390 back in day. Everything was worn out and I always went with the cheapest way of fixing it.

Adding the largest battery cables helped. The typical wire is 4g but I used 2g, an instant increase in cranking speed. Next time you get cables I recommend this as it puts more amps in the starter.

Also I got a big tube of dielectric grease, the stuff that comes in a little pouch with new spark plug wires, and slathered it on all the outside electrical connectors. I like to put enough on the connections and spark plug boots that it comes out of the seems when you plug them back together thus killing the two leading causes of corrosion; water and air. Slap it on the battery terminals and starter wires when you put them in too. If you want to add the grease to old connections locate some 'contact cleaner' to clean the connection first if it looks iffy.

At first my carb was a piece of junk and the choke was missing important pieces to make it work. I was at a drive-in and was having trouble starting it when a guy in told me to try it at wide open throttle. Started right up! Just let off as soon as it starts so you don't add wear to the engine. Afterwards my stating procedure became two pumps and then crank at WOT. I changed this when I got a new Holley carb and figured out that when I pump it the carb releases fuel for the next few seconds and therefore I only need to pump once. Never thought to see if the original carb acted this way too.

I also tried to perfect the ignition. Got the Crane Cams electronic ignition conversion, platinum plugs, performance wires (so I could trim them to the right size) and a larger battery. All these added up to the truck starting like the engine full of adrenaline, anxious to run.

Clayton
 

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