Hi gents, I own a '48 F-3 that has 67,000 original miles on it. The engine block has never really required any internal work other than a blown head gasket, and it purrs like a kitten. Anyway I had the idea of pulling the oil pan and replacing the gaskets to try to stop (or slow down) a persistent oil leak, so I bought gasket kit 7HA-6710.

That got me to thinking about oil. I've been running Valvoline 10W-40 for the summer. Oil pressure is basically good (50-55) once it warms up, and i drive it gently until that point, but prior to that it's at about 40-45. Also, after every oil change the oil turns from golden brown to black almost immediately, judging by the dipstick. I always assumed this was because in years past the engine had received older oils without detergents and other additives. Is this correct? I also noticed on oil changes that there is a bit of sludge inside the little depression on the oil drain plug.

1) Should I run any kind of oil treatment through before pulling the pan?

2) What kind of oil and viscosity do you gentlemen recommend? I live in Connecticut.

3) Should I use any oil additives like STP from here on out?

Any opinions are appreciated. Thank you.

 

Oil turning black in a gasoline fueled engine is probably due to the combustion gases leaking past the piston rings/ cylinder walls. If you've ever worked with propane burning engines you'll find that the oil tends to look "clean" much longer.
I'm in New Jersey, the weather here should be similar to yours. I use 5w~30 year 'round.
I like synthetic oils for my engines. I've used Mobil 1 since it was first released to the consumer market and I have no complaints.
You'll find that a lot of people are worried about zinc levels for "classic" cars and think that an additive like ZDDP is required. I'm not convinced that it is required. You can read a whole bunch of information posted at the "bob is the oil guy" website.

 

i run rottella in mine , no complaints , and never failed to fire irregardless of temp . has all the additives now that used to be in the oil when these ol' trucks were new . i believe they took the zinc out , but have been told here and other sources with a flatty 6 or 8 it's no biggie , just the ohv engines that i geuss really need it .

 

That makes sense, as I do have a bit of colored exhaust that puffs between gearshifts, and this engine (flathead 6) does tend to burn some oil. I need to add about a half quart every 500 miles. I think some of that is leakage though.

I was thinking about switching viscosity. I use 10W-40 in the summer because an old-timer told me the engine will use less oil with a higher viscosity, and that in the summer its fine to go with a heavier weight because of warm temps. I am wondering if I will burn/leak more oil if I move down to 5W-30...??

I have several antique Fords, but I have never tried synthetic. I'm the type that likes to change the oil frequently in order to keep an eye on things. Doing that with synthetic would defeat the purpose, I guess. Also, it gets expensive when you have to add oil like me.

Thank you, I'll check it out.

Yes, I have run Rotella too. But I read recently that Rotella has now removed a lot of the zinc additives from its formula and that you have to add in STP or some other oil additive to decrease wear on flat tappet engines.

 

Howdy,


Most old engines of yesteryear not only didn't get regular oil changes but were also filled with non-compounded (non-detergent) oil. Your engine is probably seriously "sludged" up! The new oil, after it gets hot, slowly dissolves the sludge that has collected over the years....but it doesn't happen over night. Eventually, the oil changes will clean out all the sludge.

Now having said that, DO NOT try the engine flush services or flush kits... If you put a solvent in that engine and break too much sludge loose, you could break away a large enough piece that could plug an oil passage to a rod or main bearing. That could "starve" the bearing and possibly result in a spun bearing and broken rod etc....




No. If you have a leak, you should fix it. There's no real "treatment' that will fix your leak.

Most "Old engine" types, like any brand of 15W40. because of the higher zddp. Any synthetic is probably fine too since they don't have high levels of vi improvers. I am considering 15W50 Mobil 1 for my recently rebuilt Y-block.

I wouldn't run ANY snake oil additive at all. Many new car warranties are VOID if they discover you've used an after-market Snake Oil and have an oil related failure.......They don't help anything anyway....except the people who sell them of course!


Just change your oil (and filter) regularly with a good name brand oil. Try to avoid short hops that don't fully warm the engine.


If the sludge bothers you a lot, take the engine apart and completely clean it. Otherwise, it will just take a while to clean out all the sludge....



Cheers,


Rick

 

Thank you Rick.

Is there anything I should know before I pull the oil pan?

 

Iv'e worked on Flat heads for years . I seldom see a street driven Flat Head that dosen't have " Black Oil " . Seems from the time henry built the 1932 , there was a problem with oil consumption . Look think of your V- 8 as a Briggs an Stratton times 8 ! They both used the same plugs at one time . They both used oil in some degree or annother . They both could rev relitively easy and they both like a straight weight oil .
I have had an 8- B A in my truck since 1982 . I have also used valvoline 40 W and I have been between Dallas Texas and Richmond Virginia five times with no problems too . Today, it's showing it's wear but hey I used it to tow cars behind what I was driving too ! Now not too many of you would use your Flat head to do what I have but I was in situations which required me to take these measures .
Anyway , thats my take on the engine , LONG LIVE THE FLAT HEAD ! Ed Shaver

 

Not a bad comparison......except, no (older) BS had pressure lubricated bearings, oil pump or filter and wasn't liquid cooled............ Most everything inside was splash lubed....



I won't speak to what you should do with a Flathead mechanically since I don't have one except just ensure you have all the gaskets to put it back together. Since you're going to pull the pan get yourself some solvent (Kerosene, diesel, paint thinner, mineral spirits etc) for completely cleaning the pan and oil pickup screen etc before you put it back on.

 

mine uses no oil at all , but does leak a little at the dipstick " receiver " { drawing a blank on what to call it }and mines oil is blacker than black in the 1000 to 1500 i change it in . still has a puff of smoke every once in awhile too like yours in between gears , but still as i said no oil usage . never have to add oil at all to it . the zinc as i said , is essentially for ohv engines as our flattie's have nill for spring pressure , what i think 85 - 95 on a stocker and maybe 100 - 125 on a hot one ??????? no need to worry bout slippery snake oils for 'em . now get on ohv with some of the spring pressures they run yep they could use a lil' help . and ricks right . i know someone who used an unamed additive all the time and when his mopar v-6 bit the dust at 35,000 he was told he'd have to eat it as they tested his oil and found it in there . voided the warranty . i do however run lucas in mine and in the tank . also as i change the oil and i don't know for sure but i'd say it does , the lucas , helps mine is not built up with sludge at all . hasn't been since i got her and put her on the road . cleaned it out then never since .

 

Unless its a newer rebuild stop using synthetic, stop using detergent based oil, stop using anything with out a higher level of zinc. Running synthetic in a old motor will cause oil leaks. Detergent oils that are sold now of days will clean the carbon off and make your motor run worse because your motor was not meant for this type of oil and in worst cause can cause blocks and loss of oil pressure. You need to have zinc in your oil. Solid lifters and cams need the extra zinc so you dont destroy the cam. Also you want to run a thicker weight oil as your motor was meant to run straight 30 weight not 10-30.

Rotella does not have the zinc in it anymore it stopped a little over a year ago. The only oil I know of that still has zinc is Valvoline racing. Thats the only oil i use in my flat head and it works great. I run the 20-50 but I have seen a 30 weight as well. Brad penn and a few other specialty oils do zinc but they are pricey. They remove the zinc to help lower emissions so us guys with old motors get screwed.

Remember these new oils are not even close to what these motors where meant to run on so try and stay close to what was available.

 

Thank you everyone for all your input. It seems questions about motor oil always draw a lot of opinions. I googled Valvoline Racing Oil and up popped this item in a Corvette forum (I'm not a Chevy guy by any stretch but I hear they made cars back in the day too --

VR1 Racing Oil isn't the oil we thought it was

I picked up a Valvoline product manual over the weekend. It clarified some questions about their Racing oil products. It turns out that VR1 Racing Oil is just ordinary new car street oil that says Racing Oil on the label. I think most of us thought it was extra good stuff because of those words, and because it said it contains ZDDP (Zinc DialkylDithioPhosphate), which we commonly just call zinc. That ended up being just marketing hype, since even the newer street oils still contain some zinc, just at much lower levels than they used too. Of course, that reduction was done for emissions reasons to prevent wrecking the cats on street cars, certainly not to help the engines. As we know, zinc is considered one of the main additives that gives extra protection against engine wear. Many consider the fact that zinc has been nearly removed from newer street oils to be the primary cause for the rash of flat tappet motor wiped lobes. It may also be a contributing factor to solid roller lifter failures as well. So, of course, racers and gearheads typically like to stay away from street oil if they don’t run cat equipped cars. The thing is, VR1 is API certified as SM rated (check the bottle and you’ll see), which is the latest street oil rating for current new cars, as well as older ones so they claim. But don’t tell that to the guys with wiped lobes. In order to meet that latest strict API rating, the zinc level is at its lowest level yet……..so much for Valvoline’s feeble claim of “contains ZDDP”. And so much for VR1 being actual “Racing Oil”. I think most of us expect true racing oil to have much larger amounts of zinc than even the older “good” street oil. On top of that, I recently came across a Valvoline link on the web, where they talked about VR1 being a synthetic blend, though they don’t even say that on the bottle. So………. they don’t make it widely known that it is a synthetic blend, yet they do imply it has a lot of zinc, which it doesn’t. I know many people are quite happy using VR1, but the good it is doing for them apparently comes mostly from it being partial synthetic, not from any help from zinc. Jeg’s lists this oil for $5.00 per qt. I was planning to use it in the 540 I’m building, but now I wouldn’t even consider it.

For those of us who actually want truly elevated levels of zinc in our oil, we have to look no further than Valvoline’s two other Race Oils. They have conventional (petroleum) Racing Oil and Synthetic Racing Oil, both of which truly have elevated levels of zinc. Since they do, they say clearly on the bottles, “Not Street Legal”, which is because they will actually ruin the cats on cat equipped cars. And they don’t carry new street oil API ratings. Jeg’s lists the conventional at $7.00 per qt and the synthetic at $9.00 per qt.

Just when we thought it was safe to stop thinking about oil………………

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...ht-it-was.html

 

You don't need the extra zinc in an engine that's already broken in, and flatheads are very easy on lifters anyway. OHV engines have much higher spring pressures. It isn't just zinc that protects against wear anyway.

I think you may be surprised at what's inside the oil pan. Leaded gas is what made the sludge, for the most part, so what you find in there is potentially toxic -- wear gloves and don't stick you fingers in your mouth!

Flatheads were designed around straight 30w oil, but most do fine on anything from 10w30 to 20w50. 10w40 is a good overall compromise unless you live where it gets really cold in the winter.

 

Well, I got the oil pan off without much difficulty. Note to anyone else who might do this: the Ford manual says to just jack the truck up, but you have to jack it up by the frame rails to let the front suspension dangle, otherwise there's not enough clearance for the pan to come out.

There actually wasn't too much sludge in the pan! Cleaned up nice. I've had to make up two round gaskets for the top and bottom of the oil pan cleanout because they're not available anywhere (at least that I could find.) I managed to get one of the old gaskets out of the bottom of the pan without tearing it, and used it as a template for cutting my new cork-rubber ones.

I had to take the starter off to get at the pan, and tugged pretty hard on it to get it free. Now that I have it on my workbench the starter assembly won't slide back into the housing because the shaft bumps into the spring loaded brushes near the end.

Question: Is there any quick solution to sliding it back in to put it together, or do I have to take the starter all apart?

 

That corvette link you used is from 07. I thought they upped there zinc levels because no one else was offering a zinc oil. From Valvolines site - Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil contains .13% of Zinc and .12% of Phosphorus & Valvoline VR1: Contains 75% higher zinc than SM motor oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications.

Bradd Penn which is considered awesome for zinc level abnd older motors has .014% zinc quoted from site.

 

I am going to have to respectfully disagree.

I WOULD NOT RUN NON-compounded (NON-detergent, API SA) oil in ANY ENGINE, EVER (except maybe during break-in) and even then new car manufacturers don't even do it anymore.

The modern detergents and additives keep contaminants in suspension which would congeal and clog oil screens and filters. This is why oil had to be changed MUCH more often in the "old days".

I would not run non-detergent oil even in my lawn mower.

Any 15W-40 or straight 30W oil meant for diesels will work just fine. (And by the way my friend in Seattle that rebuilds flat-head Ford engines for a living, told me he runs NOTHING but 15W40... DELO, Shell Rotella, etc.... in ALL the flatheads he rebuilds)


Just a suggestion..... "Your mileage may vary...."


Cheers,


Rick