[updated:LAST EDITED ON 17-May-02 AT 09:31 PM (EST)]Question for you guys....I noticed tonight where I can buy Havoline fully synthetic for $3.50 / qt and Walmart SuperTech fully synthetic for $2.50 / qt. Now supposing I decided I'd spend $2.50 / qt for the Wally World oil and run it twice as long as my conventional oil. At that rate it would be close to the same price as conventional.
I believe (based on prior posts in this forum) that Quaker State makes SuperTech, although I have read where the additive package is not exactly the same as true Quaker State.
What are your thoughts ????
If you have spent much time in this forum you already know I am pretty confident in dino oil w/ 3,000 mile drain intervals. However (pending the results of the test being conducted) I could be swayed to change. I doubt I'd change for Mobile 1 at $4.70 / qt, but SuperTech (Quaker State) at $2.50...well just maybe....
If the supposed benefis of synthetic lie in the fact that it is synthetic, then the SuperTech should fill the bill. But, I'm guessing some would argue that I really ought to run Mobile 1, or some other "name brand" $4.00+ / qt oil.
Not trying to stir up a ruckus...just really want you input...
Thanks,
Brian A

 

Makes sense to me Brian.
If synthetic is as good as they say it is, then even an economy brand should perform as well or better than conventional oil. So we'll see, pending the results of your testing.
As you say, one of the benefits of syn is extended drain intervals. So if you run SuperTech for 6,000 mile change intervals, you would be getting the benefit of syn at the same cost of dino.
You can always extend your test and run one with Mobil 1 if you think its necessary to have another syn to compare the SuperTech to.
BTW, to me 6,000 miles doesn't really seem that long an interval, as I always run 5,000 mile drain intervals in my vehicles with dino oil.

 

I once heard that most "off brand oil" is waste oil from the name brand folks ie. end of production run, etc. I believe that was petro oil. may be true for synthetics. On the subject, i have stopped using
petro/syn blended oils. I once called valvoline to ask what was the blend ratio (50/50 99/1). They wouldn't give me a clue.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 18-May-02 AT 09:40 AM (EST)]"You can always extend your test and run one with Mobil 1 if you think its necessary to have another syn to compare the SuperTech to."

Scott:
Just to clarify: the test will be w/ Mobil 1. I was just looking down the road and speculating....
OBTY, I think 5,000 intervals for dino. is probably A-OK. This sort of goes back to the basis of what got all this started for me months ago (remember the locked/unlocked thread ???).....
I think we might just make TOO big of a deal over the oil issue. BUT, the test will hopefully shed some more light on the subject.

thanks,
Brina

 

Persoanally after spending $30+ thousand on a new truck, I don't mind spending an extra $20 on oil. I visited my local Wal Mart last night as I have been wanting to switch to a synthetic. I've heard WalMart has 5 quart bottles of Mobil 1 for around $18, I didn't see any though. I decided to go w/the Mobil 1 SuperSyn. It was $5-ish a bottle. But if I get another van with 250.000 miles on it like my last Ford van did after running Mobil 1, it's pretty cheap compared to buying another rig.

 

There's more than one kind of synthetic. Mobil 1 synthetic is made from PAO, ester resins, and other base stocks and is 'assembled' into synthetic oil.

Castrol Syntec synthetic oil is hydroprocessed mineral oil. Very different from PAO and other synthetic based oil.

Make sure you know how Wally World is making that oil.

FWIW, I was buying Mobil 1 on sale at Walmart for less than $3 a quart in their 5 quart jugs. Even off sale, it sells for $17.88 for five quarts.

 

Paul,
thanks for the info. One question for you...
Without knowing how the WalMart oil is made, would you guess it is
a) "better" than a good dino oil.
or
b) better stick with the good dino.

I'm curious if only certain synthetics offer then claimed benefits over dino., or if any and all synthetics are better, just a matter of how much better.
Thanks,
Brian A

 

Hi, Brian. There is no doubt in my mind that even hydroprocessed mineral oil is better than the same mineral oil not processed. Of course, if you start with Texas crude oil, you're starting with oil that is of lower quality than Pennsylvania or Arabian light sweet crude oil, so if you hydroprocess Texas oil, it's not clear to me whether that's better than straight unprocessed Pennsylvania or Arabian oil. One of the differences is impurities - the Texas oil would have more sulphur and other contaminants.

I realize that's not a clear answer to your question. I'll surf around a little bit later this evening and study up on hydroprocessing, oil contaminants, and Quaker State oils. I love knowing this stuff.

Best regards,

 

I love knowing this stuff.
>
>Best regards,


Me too, Paul...
Think it's some kind of disorder ????

Brian A

 

Paul

If you have been reading my posts, you know that I am a little obsessed with this too. Where did you read about Castrol Syntec?

Most of what I have read about hydroprocessed oil has been from ChevronTexaco and Tosco("76"). Much of Chevron's base oil is hydroprocessed, but they do not charge a premium for it. "ISOSYN" is the trademarked name they use. Group III seems to be the industry term for hydroprocessed oil and group IV for PAO.

I think this idea that Pennsylvania oil is better was valid 60 years ago when oil was refined by straight distillation. One of my old aircraft engine textbooks goes into great detail about it, based on 1930's test results. Modern refining has relegated Pennsylvania oil to marketing myth. Isn't the Pennzoil/Quaker State company based in Houston?

Jim

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 23-May-02 AT 01:11 AM (EST)]Disorder? That depends upon your point of view, to whit; "I don't suffer from mental illness, I enjoy every minute of it!"

But on a more serious note (to those of us who obsess about oil), I surfed over to [link:www.quakerstate.com|Quaker State's web site] as well as [link:www.castrolusa.com|Castrol's web site] and tried to discover for myself how they made their synthetic oil.

There was nothing definitive there so I sent them both emails asking two questions. How do they make their synthetic oil? Is it from PAO, ester resins and other synthetic stock, or is it hydroprocessed mineral (crude) oil? If it is hydroprocessed crude oil, what base oil is used? Texas heavy crude, Pennsylvania light crude oil, Arabian light sweet crude oil?

BTW, the [link:www.castrolusa.com/expert/default.asp|Castrol web site] had some pretty good descriptions of what goes into oil. They described hydrocracking, hydrofinishing, hydrotreating, hydroisomerization and the types of additives and their functions.

I'll let you know what they say in response to my questions.

Best regards,

 

Jim,

Regarding group III vs. group IV; thanks, that's good info. Another person's posting was the beginning of my information about Castrol Syntec. The report was that Mobil sued Castrol about the description of oil as "synthetic". IIRC, Mobil's case was that truly synthetic oil is created from base stocks such as PAO, ester resins, etc. and the Castrol's oil was crude oil based refined oil that had been 'hydroprocessed'. Castrol won the suit so they get to call their stuff synthetic.

I've used Castrol Syntec and I don't recommend it, but that's another thread.

BTW, I though Tosco got bought out by somebody. Perhaps that's why you said 'Tosco(76)'. But that's beside the point.

Regarding Pennsylvania crude oil vs. Texas crude oil; it was my understanding that Texas crude oil has many more impurities. I believe the industry term for it is 'sour' vs. 'sweet' crude. Sulphur, nitrogen and other contaminants. Pennsylvania and Arabian oil is 'light, sweet' crude oil. Less impurities and less tar. When crude oil prices are quoted on financial broadcasts, they often differentiate between the different sources of oil to reflect their different quality.

I realize that they have several ways to remove impurities and modify the base stock, but it was my impression that to make motor oil, you'd want to start with the good stuff. Leave the Texas crude for fuel and industrial uses. But knowing oil companies, they'd claim that it makes no difference, but they have a monetary interest in making that claim.

Best regards,

 

I'm guessing that some or most of you guys have already been there, but...Mobil and Texaco both have VERY good web sites that offer a lot of good information on the subjects being discussed here.
One note: I seemed to get the impression, reading between the lines, that Mobil seemed to somewhat reluctantly acknowledge that if you drive "normal" and keep your oil changed regularly, you might not benefit from Mobile 1.
Also, I seemed to sense (probably their lawyers at work behind the scenes) that Mobil seemed to use "could", "might", etc. when describing the benefits of using Mobile 1. I am straying from the subject at hand here, so I'll get back....
My initial question concerned an "economy grade" fully synthetic -vs- a good quality conventional oil.
I guess I am coming from the standpoint of feeling comfortable with dino oil and 3,000-4,000 mile changes. If the value of synthetic lies in the fact that it is synthetic, is $4 /qt synthetic twice as good as 2$ / qt synthetic?
Put another way....over 100,000 miles with 3,000 drain intervals, cost of oil is:

Mobile 1: ~$4/qt x 33 changes x 6 qt/change = $792
Economy Synthetic: ~$2/qt x 33 changes x 6 qt/change = $396
My regular conventional oil: ~1/qt x 33 changes x 6 qt/change = $198

Where does the smart money go????
Thanks !!!
Brian A

 

OBTY:
I realize I used 3,000 drain intervals for all the above calcs. Extended drain intervals would reduce cost for synthetics.
Thanks again,
Brian A

 

Hey, Brian, I'm going to give you a little s**t!

One thing you completely overlooked in your financial analysis is the increased fuel economy synthetics provide. Forget about the self-serving fluff from the oil company sites, it seems pretty much documented by entities from national trucking organizations to the American Petroleum Institute that using synthetics gives you a 2% to 5% improvement in fuel economy. The API even *certifies* some synthetics as "energy conserving".

Going back to your 100,000 mile example, if you assume a vehicle is getting around 15 MPG (after all, this is a truck forum) and the price of fuel averages $1.35/gallon, that truck will have gone through 8,333 gallons of gas at a total cost of $11,250 to move it those 100K miles.(Frightening, isn't it?!)

Using a 3% figure for the increase in gas mileage (a conservative middle of the reported improvement), you save $337.50 in fuel by using synthetic motor oil over 100,000 miles. That MORE than pays for the economy synthetic oil at your suggested oil change intervals and takes a large chunk out of the cost of even Mobil 1.

This doesn't even factor in any engine life improvements due to using a synthetic, particularly in colder northern climates.

So au contraire, I think synthetics DO pay for themselves.

The ball's in your court...Your serve! :-)